"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

You are referring to a personal rating, not “personality.” The personal rating is supposed to be an “assessment of the applicant’s humor, sensitivity, grit, leadership, integrity, helpfulness, courage, kindness and many other qualities” based on a review of the full file. It is not primarily the alumni interview. The alumni interviewer reports give their own “personal qualities” rating on their interview report, along with a summary explaining the rating. An example presented during the lawsuit is at https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/9/12/harvard-student-admissions-file-analysis/ (click on “view the entire document with Document Cloud”).

While SAT score is considered among non-test optional applicants, it represents only a small portion of the overall decision at typical highly selective private colleges. As a whole, Asian applicants tend to have higher average scores than applicants from other races. When Asian students are not accepted, the primary issue is usually something other than scores are not high enough. Said another way, at HYPSM… type colleges, most rejected students still would be rejected had they been able to increase their SAT to a perfect score.

The specific regression coefficients from the Plantiff’s analysis in the Harvard lawsuit are below. The Plantiff claims that there is a bias against Asian applicants, but that bias is quite small compared to the strength of almost any hook and most “tips”.

Including Personal Rating
Athlete: +>7
Black: +3.7
Legacy: +2.3
Hispanic: +2.0
Applies Early: +1.5
Lower SES: +1.5
Considering CS: +0.3
Considering Humanities: +0.2
Asian Female: -0.1
Asian Male: -0.3
Unspecified Concentration: -1.3

Excluding Personal Rating
Athlete: +>7
Black: +3.6
Legacy: +2.1
Hispanic: +1.9
Lower SES: +1.6
Applies Early: +1.5
Considering Humanities: +0.2
Considering CS: +0.1
Asian Female: -0.2
Asian Male: -0.4
Unspecified Concentration: -1.3

In this year’s Harvard freshman survey, 5% of students identified as Jewish, and 26% of those who are not multi-racial identified as Asian.

Guess Harvard wants students who know what they want to study, or at least pretend convincingly to know what they want to study?

Just because you’re paranoid does not mean they’re not out to get you.

But the attitude that everybody is out to get you is more likely to turn neutral parties to doubt than to convert them to your cause. Especially when you’re trying to lump them in with people and actions they aren’t part of.

yet there is a bias against Asians not found with any other racial group including whites in Harvard’s personality scores… so bottom line there is racial bias against Asians that penalizes them in admission.

and the argument that says this is a small effect gets completely blown out of the water when colleges that admit not based on race have much higher Asian percentages. Berkeley and Caltech.

underqualified whites are given preference over more qualified Asians despite Asians having higher GPAs and SAT scores.

There are several reasons there are a lot of Asian students at Berkeley and Caltech. Not just one.

@sbballer, not sure if you’re responding to my post #3602, but my post wasn’t directed at you. It was directed at another discussion that was removed. Not sure why my post wasn’t removed as well since it is kinda hanging out there on its own now.

FWIW, I agree that Harvard discriminates against Asians for admissions. I dislike that, I dislike legacy, athlete and some forms of URM preference as well. But no doubt, Asians are the group most hurt by these practices because they leave fewer ‘open’ slots for the unhooked, which most Asians are. Not only that but the URM preferences create the awful and hurtful impression that makes other students assume that the URMs are only there because of AA. IMO, the high achieving URMs should join the Asians in wanting to get rid of AA.

The regression coefficients showing relatively small effects are from the Plantiff in the Harvard lawsuit. The Plantiff makes a variety of assumptions in the model that magnify the degree of these effects (for example not controlling for parents occupation). One can dispute the merit of these assumptions, but the Plantiff chooses assumptions that magnify the Asian bias, and Harvard’s expert chooses assumptions that minimize the bias. I’d expect the actual effect is somewhere between the Plantiff’s model and Harvard’s model. I think it’s highly unlikely that the Plantiff is dramatically underestimating to the point where the Asian percentage should match Caltech.

Instead the far more likely explanation is that Caltech and Berkeley’s admission model and applicant pools differ from Harvard in a variety of ways beyond just use of race. For example, the lawsuit reports the following racial percentages among the 3 largest non-racial hook groups at Harvard. These 3 groups make up quite a large portion of White admits. Note that these hook groups are all mostly White and rarely Asian, so favoring these groups means White students become more overrepresented and Asian students become more underrepresented. Caltech gives far less preference to legacy and athlete than Harvard, so it follows that a larger Asian percentage is expected. I’d expect that Dean’s special interest list, Z-list, and such play less role in Caltech admissions than in Harvard admissions. Caltech also has a reputation for focusing more on scores in the admission process than Harvard, which again is expected to increase Asian percentage.

Legacy – 76% of admitted legacies are White, 12% are Asian
Athlete – 76% of admitted athletes are White, 15% are Asian
Dean’s Special Interest List – 72% of admits are White, 10% are Asian

One also needs to consider that Caltech and Harvard have very different applicant pools. The “Institute of Technology” fields that Caltech focuses on tend to have a strong Asian male overrepresentation in the applicant pool at selective colleges, particularly among the more qualified applicants. In contrast liberal arts fields for which Harvard is especially renowned are not as dominated by Asian males. Asian males are an underrperesnted group at some selective LACs. Colleges like Caltech almost certainly have a larger portion of Asians in the applicant pool, without even considering the CA location.

In Berkeley’s case, not considering race is a relatively new change; so it’s easy to compare racial percentages before and after the admission policy change. The graph at http://www.dailycal.org/2018/02/02/prop-209-affirmative-action-uc-berkeley-enrollment/ shows the following racial demographic changes shortly after Prop 209 took effect. Nearly half of students were Asian both before and after Prop 209. Berkeley had a far larger percentage of Asian students than White students when they were still considering race. There was not a small change in Asian percentage, not a huge one, and that increase appears to be primarily due to the reduced URM percentage rather than no longer favoring White students.

Asian – Increased from ~40% to ~45%
White – Roughly unchanged at ~30%

If Harvard changed their admission policy to just consider GPA and SAT scores, Asian students would become a much larger percentage of the class. However, that is not Harvard’s admission model. They consider other factors besides just stats and “personal” rating. The Plantiff’s analysis estimated the demographic percentages would change as follows, without consideration of race and various other factors. The Plantiff claims the Asian penalty only decreases Asian percentage by 1-2%. The far more influential factors are the boosts given to URMs, legacies, and athletes. Removing Dean/Director’s special interest list would also more significantly increase Asian percentage.

Including “Personal” Rating
Actual Class – 22% Asian, 45% White
No Asian Penalty – 23% Asian, 45% White
No Asian Penalty or URM Boost – 28% Asian, 52% White
No Asian Penalty or URM/Legacy/Athlete Boost – 32% Asian, 48% White

Excluding “Personal” Rating
Actual Class – 22% Asian, 45% White
No Asian Penalty – 24% Asian, 44% White
No Asian Penalty or URM Boost – 29% Asian, 51% White
No Asian Penalty or URM/Legacy/Athlete Boost – 34% Asian, 47% White

We don’t need to rely on plaintiff analysis regarding the penalties and benefits of race preferences in the admissions process. We can look at Harvard’s own research.

Harvard OIR estimated that removing race, but leaving all other holistic metrics in place, would engender the following race composition of the admitted class:

White – 51% (actual 43%)
Asian – 26% (actual 19%)
Black – 2% (actual 10%)
Hisp. – 4% (actual 9%)

https://www.discriminations.us/2018/10/sffa-v-harvard-college-harvard-hoist-on-its-own-data/

H says Asian Americans are 22.9% of current admitted students, not 19%

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

@OHMomof2 - The Harvard research was conducted in 2013 using then current data (classes of 2007 through 2016), a fact made clear in the linked article.

The Harvard OIR review was primitive and misses some important controls, but it came to roughly the same conclusion as the Plantiff’s model about the effects of removing racial consideration. A comparison is below. Changes are specified as percentage points delta, rather than ratios.

**Platiff/b
No Asian Penalty – Asian increases 1%, White unchanged
Removing Race – Asian increases 6%, White increases 7%

**Harvard OIR/b
Removing Race – Asian increases 7%, White increases 8%

Agreed, @Data10 that Harvard OIR did not estimate all the coefficients (use all the variables) that the later Arcidiacono models did, but importantly Harvard OIR was given free access prior to the filing of any lawsuit.

As you said, its conclusions were broadly consistent with plaintiff’s analysis. I’ll reiterate my view that the bulk of the “Asian penalty” is due to current demographics of the major non-race based preferences (athletic, legacy and development). Choice of major probably also plays a role (Harvard doesn’t admit by major, but it is impossible to imagine that it doesn’t notice EC focus for its applicants).

Unhooked Asians and whites certainly pay a large price for URM preference.

Ah well then Harvard has already moved the needle almost halfway to goal :smiley:

However, it is not out of the question that leaning on legacy more may be a way to keep white enrollment up (even though typical non-legacy white applicants get lower rather than higher chance of admission), since a college may want to ensure that white enrollment remains high enough to maintain its marketability to white potential students – a college admission consultant who posts on these forums did write that most white students prefer a white majority college, so falling much below 50% white could be a marketing problem.

Not only Caltech doesn’t give preferences to legacies, athletes, etc., but also it doesn’t give preference to any group (presumably including racial groups), according to Caltech’s President Rosenbaum when he touched on the issue of the lawsuit against Harvard in his new academic year address:

http://www.caltech.edu/content/2018-19-academic-year-welcome

Re: #3614

If that is the case, they need to review their answers in section C7 of their common data sets that list “alumni/ae relation” and “racial/ethnic status” as “considered”:
http://finance.caltech.edu/Resources/cds
Or is it a new policy change for 2018-19 (versus the latest common data set from 2017-18)?

I don’t believe Caltech ever considers legacy status. That field in CDS is likely an error.

CalTech has only 1% African-American students. 12.3% of the US population is African-American— and African Americans represent 6% of the population of California.

On the flip side, Asian-Americans make up 5.6% of the total US population, 14.7% of California’s population, and 43% of enrollment at CalTech.

So basically, CalTech’s admission policies operate to perpetuate race/ethnic based disparities in opportunities for future generations.

^ Nonsense.

@calmom My African American family went to a Small Group informational session with a CalTech representive and your post is not helpful to African Americans at all. My son was excited to talk to the representative about a school that has an uncompromising academic standard that does not care about his race, but the merit of his accomplishments and what he could bring to the CalTech family. If African Americans (or people of any other race) want to get into CalTech, they better bring the “heat”. Period.