“Would like to add that my position would be exactly the same if it was the other way around in any possible permutation of races or colors that you can think of.”
Didn’t you also say this: “Hey! Tiger parents! Grow up! You are not helping your kids or yourselves.”?
I doubt your position would be the same, you’d probably reveal more of your stereotypes and bigotry.
This is the 3rd or 4th time I repeat this. No, I didn’t even write that, I copy pasted from elsewhere in response to a post about “undeserving” “colored” people and statistics from Tiger Mom. I also apologized for going tit a tat as it could be taken the wrong way.
I proceeded to link to the “perfect sheep” article and book and added that I’ve seen plenty of people from across the spectrum doing just that. That is what I am criticizing as I think is really unhealthy on many levels and directly tied to this mess.
Here is a pretty good break down of the coverage of googlegate.
If there ever was a textbook example of the media getting it wrong, this was it.
The Atlantic article brings up a lot of good points and I also doubt that 50-50 balance can be achieved. However it takes him at his word when he says “I value diversity and inclusion”, when he may not. I think what got him was the neurotic comment, he was probably out after that. I’m sure a lot of people, men and women alike went to his manager and said we can’t work with him anymore and we don’t him doing any of our peer-reviews.
And his thinly veiled stereotyping of women would lead others to think he would stereotype other ethnicities.
Taking a risk here on switching the argument and being behind on this thread, but wondering something. I thought I saw a headline that said the reason they want to do away with AA if because it’s unfair to “whites”…wouldn’t getting rid of AA hurt whites even more because there are so many Asians with amazing records? Aren’t they the ones claiming to be discriminated against??? Not giving my opinion either way, just wondering if objectively speaking, I’m interpreting this correctly.
You interpreted it correctly. Here is a very good explanation of what is going on:
https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/8/4/16094648/affirmative-action-trump-sessions-asian-american
Is AP Calculus AB a one year course or just a semester.
@notigering Thanks for that link. Great article and I recommend everyone on this thread read it.
It kind of stops short though of outright saying what I have been thinking…“Whites” (which I am one of!) better be careful what they wish for. If we end up building the meritocracy the way they think it should be built, they stand to lose maybe less spots to the “darkies” (as the article puts it) but will lose more spots to Asians.
I am a huge supporter of Affirmative Action, for the record. But that’s beside the point…I just feel like, objectively speaking, the whites that think they are the victims don’t realize they might have more to lose by overturning AA. (I think I read an article once saying if the Ivies admitted on stats alone their classes would be upwards of 70% Asian??? Not sure if that’s correct, but I remember reading that!). Or would they still be OK with the elite colleges holding Asian applicants to higher standards? Would that double standard get past the Supreme Court??
^ Just two quick comments about Reece’s article:
He should read the Arcidiacono study. Weaker students protected their GPA by switching out of hard subjects into easy ones. He noted such behaviour are more prevalent among URMs and legacies.
I think this is very true. I once wrote a doggerel about it:
Maintaining power is my aim;
Divide and conquer is my game.
Hey guys, I’m mixed white and asian, which race should I put on college application to have a higher chance of admission?
@collegemomjam “I thought I saw a headline that said the reason they want to do away with AA if because it’s unfair to “whites”…wouldn’t getting rid of AA hurt whites even more because there are so many Asians with amazing records?”
I think you are making a good point.
The way colleges try to construct and diversity their classes every group benefits from affirmative action at some colleges or universities. For example, Lehigh is an excellent top 50 University with significant engineering and business programs in addition to arts and sciences. Lehigh has been working to improve its diversity broadly. Not only with Black and Latino students, but also with Asian students and female students. They are making steady progress, but would like to continue to improve.
It is wise for parents and students to try to identify schools that are interested in whatever group their student happens to be a member of. For example, currently there are about 33% more women applying to college than men. Because of that, many colleges will admit men at a higher rate to balance their classes. However, there are still many schools who have more men and would like to balance the class out with more women.
How does AA affect aspects of an application that aren’t objective? For example, it would be easier to overlook something like lower test scores for a URM because that’s a measurable quantity, but how do colleges handle URM applicants who may have slightly weaker awards, activities, etc?
@Amduseus They basically look into what resources are available in the applicant’s community and how the applicant made use of them. They also look for hardship and what the applicant did to help overcome it, say family responsibilities such as work or taking care of others (ie younger siblings while parent was busy at work, prison, died etc…) and substitute them for extracurricular activities. In the end it is a common sense sensible judgement really, like you say it is subjective and not measurable criteria…
@amduseus “How does AA affect aspects of an application that aren’t objective? For example, it would be easier to overlook something like lower test scores for a URM because that’s a measurable quantity, but how do colleges handle URM applicants who may have slightly weaker awards, activities, etc?”
It is important to understand that how these things are done is not standardized. Each school may approach it differently. A lot will depend on how important the particular school views extra curriculars in general.
Some may prefer a student with targeted gpa and test scores but weaker EC’s. Others may be more willing to give a little on the grades and test scores to get a student with better EC’s.
I’m not going to state my opinion of Trump in general to not start a political debate on CC. However, I will say that he’s doing a noble thing with the whole affirmative action thing. As a South Asian, I’m glad I won’t be discriminated against in college admissions.
URMs crying about this and demanding they receive preferential treatment are just being entitled, and have to play the victim as if they’re somehow being discriminated against 24/7, and blame all of their problems on race.
“As a South Asian, I’m glad I won’t be discriminated against in college admissions…”
and then writes:
“URMs crying … and have to play the victim as if they’re somehow being discriminated… and blame all of their problems on race.”
Oh, and good luck with Trump doing noble things for South Asians, I am sure he’s got your back…
@notigering The difference is that affirmative action is structured racial discrimination that displaces whites and asians. URMs that cry about “white privilege” and “systemic racism” when a cop shoots someone or they have any sort of issue in their life, that’s quite different as there’s literally no legal discrimination barring them from anything.
However, there IS actual discrimination in the case of affirmative action. URMs and self-hating Whites that justify this pretend like there’s some imaginary barrier called “white privilege” that holds down minorities in every aspect of life, thus they must be favored in college admission for no reason other than their race.
And yes, Trump certainly “has my back” in the case of college admissions if he does succeed at ending racist college admissions.
Interestingly, South Asians are underrepresented and actively recruited by some colleges.
@OHMomof2 Which colleges? Certainly not by colleges such as the ivy leagues…
I named quite a few earlier in this thread.