<p>From the separate thread that just got merged into this thread, objecting to an article that was cited in the opening post of that “The point of affirmative action?”: </p>
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<p>That was followed up by saying, </p>
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<p>Wouldn’t the same objection apply to the whole concept of “stereotype threat,” that most of the research base for that concept is old and may not apply to current tests, especially the recentered SAT Reasoning Test? </p>
<p>Because Southern students are racist right? I actually don’t have a problem with giving this applicant a boost. But I would expect the same boost to be given if the applicant was Asian instead of black.</p>
<p>Your assumption that Southern students are racist is yours, not mine. I would expect the same consideration of race as a “factor” in admissions if the applicant in this situation was Asian or any race other than the race of the student body.</p>
<p>Where would I look to find statistics on this subject? I see you have already acknowledged there are exceptions. I remember when I was a debate coach back in the 1970s, I read the then-current research literature on how to get medical doctors to move into underserved areas. It was VERY difficult, even with loan forgiveness programs targeted to encourage such behavior.</p>
<p>That is why I posed the example as a question. In some contexts, race might be a factor deserving of consideration, while in others it might not, but I don’t see how one can draw a blanket conclusion that it is irrelevant. Would a Korean student body president of an all-Black inner-city Los Angeles school be noteworthy? (Is Obama’s race relevant?) Maybe it says more about the student body than the candidate, but it certainly might say something special about the student’s abilities as a leader/representative.</p>
<p>Getting elected a president of a senior class says something, but you’d need to “link up” the argument more (as a lawyer might say) to show any relevance for the situations you’re describing. What I have to remind a lot of people in this thread, I guess, is that there really are people in this world–I’m one of them, and I know a lot more–who don’t think of all their neighbors and classmates in “racial” categories. I was [taught</a> this when I was young](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060826476-post61.html]taught”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060826476-post61.html), and the biological facts that have been discovered as I have grown up make clear that thinking of our fellow human beings in racial categories is inaccurate and misleading. So, again, if someone wants to claim that there is more significance in being elected class president in one high school than another, the significance needs to be shown specifically in each case.</p>
<p>Going back to the issue of legacy as a qualification, I’m wondering if, by extension, you guys think that anything about an applicant that statistically suggests higher performance in college is a qualification. For example, whites and Asians have higher graduation rates than blacks and Latinos. Is being white a qualification?</p>
<p>A very good and focused question. I’d like to see more discussion of this. How do colleges develop their sense of what applicant characteristics constitute “qualifications”?</p>
<p>I see, by searching this thread, that I haven’t made a point that I have surely made in other threads about this issue. So let me be clear: if a particular applicant to a college grew up in local circumstances such that the applicant’s “race” resulted in the applicant being disadvantaged, I would be very glad to see a college regard any information the applicant provides to the college through common application essays or answers to a question such as “What else should we know about you?” about the disadvantages the applicant has faced and overcome. The applicant should definitely have opportunity, in my opinion, to write as part of the college admission file about what real-world issues have made life difficult for the applicant. No doubt there are various combinations of local circumstances that might make anyone’s “race” a disadvantage in a particular place, and if the applicant overcomes those disadvantages, that applicant shows “qualification” for challenging college study. That’s something each applicant who needs to can mention individually by referring to personal details.</p>
<p>With the gap as large as ever and only 15 black students scoring a 35 or 36 on the ACT (comparably low numbers above 2250 on the SAT) you can see just how drastic the disparity is.</p>
<p>Observations such as this have a couple of effects on the college admission process. One effect of such observations is that most colleges refer to criteria other than standardized test scores to identify “qualified” students, and I have no problem with that, even though my self-interested bias would be to favor high test scores as a major criterion for selecting students. (I score high on tests, which accounts for my “gut reaction” on that issue.) Yes, colleges will refer to other criteria to select students, and I think that is great. </p>
<p>Another effect of such observations is to predict that affirmative action policies that take the form of “making up” for lower test scores will have to exist for a long time, lest colleges have “too few” underrepresented minorities. In the words of my favorite author on math education, “Permit me to not completely agree with this opinion.” I don’t think this scoring gap is permanent. I believe that if college admission policies changed, underrepresented minority students will stand and deliver and figure out ways to turn out higher test scores, better grades in more AP classes, more community service hours, or whatever it is that colleges value as an admission criterion if “race” plays a strictly limited role in college admission. </p>
<p>I thank you for providing the reading reference in the link. I’m out the door to children’s soccer and I’ll follow up some more later.</p>
<p>Well i am a canadian citizen of asian ethnicity living in the middle east, applying to upenn this fall…</p>
<p>Im confused and dont know whether i should report my ethnicity…</p>
<p>i know that i have the right to leave it blank but might doing so may be seen by the adcoms as “not being true to myself”, or as an obvious attempt to avoid the fact that i am an part of an over-represented group (which might even be wrong is somecases, where people simply have too complicated an ethnicity to report using the common app system)</p>
<p>frankly whatever improves one’s chances goes, right?
so what would improve mine?
me enlisted as a canadian citizen with
ethnicity checked as asian
or ethnicity left blank…</p>
<p>You seem to be making a pretty bold claim–that URMs aren’t trying hard enough because they know they’ll benefit from preferences. Do you have any evidence to back that up?</p>
<p>I read recently somewhere that some colleges might consider those that leave it blank or check unknown are trying to “game” the system and that it’s better to just go ahead and check whatever ethnicity you consider yourself. That made sense to me, but there are certainly lots of opinions on this issue!</p>