<p>Now, I read on the UC website that when you apply, race is not considered for admission. I believe this sort of affirmative action was banned by California voters in a proposition some years ago. However, in light of recent decisions, I cant see how race did not play a factor. Let me begin...
A good friend of mine, who is white, applied to UCSB and was rejected. He had a 1860 SAT score, passed 2 or 3 AP's with scores of 3's and 4's, had some extra curriculars, though I must admit not that many, in all honors classes throughout high school, and has a 3.6 uc- weighted gpa. Now I know this is not what it takes to automatically be accepted to UCSB or even to call it a safety, but when I found out about other students who got in, I was genuinely surprised. Now there are two girls in my school who did get into UCSB, and they are both Mexican. One of the girls had a 3.7 weighted GPA, a 1420 SAT, only 3 honors/ap classes throughout her high school career, a 520 and a 570 SAT II, and several extra curriculars. Another girl who got in, who is also Mexican, got in with a 1400 SAT, a 3.5 GPA, NO honors/ap classes ever, and sub 500 sat II scores. Now, I'm not a racist, but I can not see how race did not play a factor in the acceptance of the two girls I have mentioned. I know UC's rely heavily on SAt/GPa, and I believe a difference of 400 is very big. I dont know, I just wanted to see what other people think on the matter. Has anything like this happened to people you know, especially in the UC system? I'm just wondering.</p>
<p>And just for the record, I got into UCSB and will most likely be going there next year.</p>
<p>I've got an even more surprising/alarming result.</p>
<p>My friend last year got into UCBerkeley with a 3.5 and 1500 sats / no e/cs, no AP classes, no sports, not really anything that stands out.... although he was Hispanic.</p>
<p>There's no way in hell someone with those stats got in unless race was involved. </p>
<p>BTW I got into UCSB as well... still waiting for Irvine tho.</p>
<p>Comprehensive Review makes it so that, if there can be a legitimate cause for low test scores, such as a traumatic life event or special circumstances pertaining to quality of education, such applicants will be favored. As a generalization although not a stereotype, Hispanics are substantially in the working class, or lower classes. In addition, a considerable number of the former generation never had higher education. Finally, in at least SoCal, there is a stigma against those who are Hispanic, which could easily be considered a personal challenge in interaction with others to be written about in the essay.</p>
<p>With those issues, if we can use the UCSD point system as a comparison, an applicant could score using these 3 criteria approximately 1000 or more points towards their total. A 400 point difference in SAT scores would translate to a 320 point difference between the two applicants. The application process will always be marred with these stories of AA being implemented, although it is highly unlikely that racial preferences are the root of one's rejection/acceptance to a school.</p>
<p>I do not believe that a person can be accepted simply because that person is Hispanic, that sounds ridiculous. The UC system takes into consideration many things far beyond grades and SAT scores such as first generation students going to college which are mostly linked to Hispanics. I believe everyone has an equal opportunity. I am proud to say that I am a hard working Hispanic who has worked hard to get into UCSB without expecting the UC system to cut me any slack.</p>
<p>SoCalMEX you state that "I do not believe that a person can be accepted simply because that person is Hispanic" I am not saying they got in just because they are Hispanic, what I am saying is that does the fact that they are Hispanic give them even a slight advantage when it comes to college admissions. Theoretically, it should not, but as you have read in my original post, I believe it does.</p>
<p>Besides what I said earlier, it is almost impossible to compare admissions/rejections between people, even if comparisons aren't racially motivated. If you'll look at the Cal Poly SLO forum, there was a kid with a 4.0/2080 that got rejected from the psychology department and another one who got in with a 3.5/1700ish statistics. I don't know whether they were Hispanic or not, you can ask them, but while the numbers alone suggest that this is completely unfair, some admissions standards are picky like that, and the right admissions officer may well determine whether or not an under qualified student makes the cut.</p>
<p>Affirmative Action is illegal in california as of proposition 209 in 1996.</p>
<p>According the Grutter v Bollinger 2003, the supreme court says that colleges may factor in race holistically in decisions. Quotas, however, are unconstitutional.</p>
<p>I don't see how my remarks are racist, and if I do live in the suburbs, the low number of my classmates being Hispanic despite their relatively large size as a demographic as opposed to other racial groups would at least suggest that Hispanics don't make up a big % of the middle class. While of course a lot of them do belong in the middle class, a quick check on statistics revealing a 21.9% poverty rate (In the US), and a 12% college education+ rate, would suggest that the middle class is not the dominant segment of the Hispanic population. And in clarifying the stigma remark, I find it hard to believe that there isn't a stigma, at least in San Diego, given the popularity of the Minutemen project in the area. CC isn't the place to talk politics though, and if my remarks offended you in any way, I apologize.</p>
<p>What I meant to point out is that the race of an applicant may also come associated with other factors which WILL count towards your comprehensive review. Since dansamimi posted this on several forums, I'll repeat what I said in another forum in that having low statistics yet being a well-to-do member of a certain ethnic minority will not grant you admissions to a selective school. There may be struggles associated with some ethnic groups, but to say that all members of that demographic share the same struggle and therefore should all have preference in admissions is highly improbable.</p>
<p>Once again, skaterkid, if I offended you with my remarks, I apologize. My aim wasn't to add racism into this discussion, only to try to distinguish between AA and genuine struggles that certain people in an ethnicity will face.</p>
<p>Lol, how about lets keep the inaccurate responses off CC. It's a statistical fact that the average Hispanic income is lower than the average US income. That does not in anyway mean that the reason that they are have low incomes is because they are Hispanic or that all Hispanics are poor.</p>
<p>I personally would like to think that these are misrepresented or extremely isolated examples. But with Karupt's example, it's looking sort of bad :/</p>
<p>Exactly, Do you think an Asian guy with a 3.5 and 1500 sats, no e/c sports or anything else would have a CHANCE at getting into UCB? It doesn't matter how much hardships he may have, there is no way in hell he is going to be accepted into UCB. Btw, did I mention that he failed adv. algebra?</p>
<p>They say race doesn't have anything to do with admissions, but I REALLY find it hard to believe when there are so many real-life examples of it being completely obvious.</p>
<p>How many of you guys have heard of an Asian or White kid with a 3.5 and 1500 sats get into Berkeley?</p>
<p>Well, what if that Asian guy came to the country as an immigrant in his freshman year with parents that came to the country as students and therefore were considered low income (that's how my parents came to North America so its not totally impossible), without any previous knowledge of the English language and not a chance at participating in sports that really aren't that common in Asia? It'll be hard to explain the advanced algebra, but I would say that this person would have a pretty good shot at Berkeley.</p>
<p>My friend's sister was in a similar situation. They moved from Korea in her sophomore year, and I'm not told what her SAT score was but it seems like it would be stacked against her. My friend says that her sister is an introvert, so I doubt she had clubs or sports. Nevertheless though, she was accepted and went to Berkeley partly because there really is genuine struggle in her story. Overcoming language and cultural barriers and yet still trying to succeed (her GPA wasn't that hot since I'm told she did poorly in her AP tests/classes) will have a big impact on comprehensive review. </p>
<p>Now I'm not saying that an average American-born Asian with the stats that you mentioned will be able to pull off the same miracle scenario, but then again, neither can an average American-born Hispanic in a similar neighborhood/income bracket.</p>
<p>Peppers I understand the point you are trying to make, yet the way you are going about doing so I don't really agree with. To say that because a low # of hispanics are your classmates in your middle class neighborhood, therefore shows that this is representative of the hispanic population as a whole would be completely inaccurate. Also to say that because there might be a 'stigma' or resentment against hispanics in your area of San Diego because of the minutemen is ridiculous. In addition, San Diego does not represent all of Southern California.
Back to the topic, i do agree that race (although not openely admitted), but more importantly social economic status play a big role in the UC decision process.</p>
<p>The low number of Hispanics in my neighborhood was a rough remark on my part, but what I was illustrating is backed by statistics showing Hispanics aren't likely to be a dominant % of the middle class compared to their relatively large demographic. </p>
<p>Also, while I must say that I hope San Diego doesn't reflect all of Southern California, it iterates the point that there is a preset prejudice against Hispanics, particularly in areas where their concentration is rather high. We're told to practice tolerance, but the realities are that there is discrimination towards Hispanics, particularly in labor and quality of education. While undoubtedly there are Hispanics in middle class neighborhoods, a larger % of them live in the city and attend city schools.</p>
<p>Pertaining to the topic at hand, I think that, if there is ANY favoritism given due to race in admissions, it doesn't necessarily give a certain race an advantage, but merely levels the playing field. There are instances in which races really are discriminated against, and this is what leads to socio-economic disparities. We can easily argue that there are Hispanics that have broken the racial glass ceiling and have become successful, but to say that this reflects the status of Hispanics, or even a clear majority of Hispanics, as a whole in society would be inaccurate. What comprehensive review therefore does is, as skaterkid suggests, award points or consideration based on socio-economic reasons. That this form of consideration favors Hispanics, and African Americans more than whites and Asians shouldn't be a testament of how UC admissions officers are racially profiling applicants, but as to how society is racially profiling certain peoples.</p>
<p>Are you accusing the UC system, specifically UC:SB, is practicing AA, racism, or somehow factoring race itself into its admissions?</p>
<p>IMO, colleges shouldn't be responsible for these social-discriminations if it does exist. An interesting note into this argument: There was a Princeton article that claimed had AA been abolished, 3/4 of all admissions for blacks and Hispanics would go to Asians. I don't really have much interest on this article, actually, it could be irrelevant for this discussion, but nevertheless you might be interested in it.</p>
<p>And why do people seem to forget that essays are also a HUGE factor?</p>
<p>20% of UCSB's class of 2010 was Chicano/Hispanic. Numerically, UCSB admitted the most (3456) Hispanics of all the UCs, and I do believe it isn't the largest UC either. Still don't think they do it though, just throwing out a number.</p>
<p>@BirdKiller. :/ Umm, no at the UCs essays aren't a huge factor. Maybe at a LAC, but not at a public college with tens of thousands of applicants.</p>
<p>I'm not accusing the UCs of anything, but some things listed here are certainly not making me think that they're 100% impartial.</p>
<p>It's unreasonable to believe race played a factor, but there have been some instances which made me want to believe otherwise.</p>
<p>I, categorized as Asian, and a few others who are white have been rejected to UCSB with 1700-1800 SAT scores and 3.5-3.7 GPA. I understand that those are not generally the statistics that can get you into UCSB. However, I have encountered many UCSB accepted admits at my school, four of them being of hispanic decent all having lower SAT scores and a lower GPA with the same amount of extra curricular activities.</p>
<p>I am not saying that they are racist in any way, but I do believe they may admit on a race curve. I, for example, on the lower end of the curve when it comes to viewing all Asian admits.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I, categorized as Asian, and a few others who are white have been rejected to UCSB with 1700-1800 SAT scores and 3.5-3.7 GPA. I understand that those are not generally the statistics that can get you into UCSB. However, I have encountered many UCSB accepted admits at my school, four of them being of hispanic decent all having lower SAT scores and a lower GPA with the same amount of extra curricular activities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I guess whether judging whether the UC system is using race as a factor depends on our own personal experiences...</p>
<p>Small individual results really cannot indicate whether race is a factor or not. I'm Asian with a SAT score of 1880, 3.6-3.8 UC GPA, modest ECs (absolutely no community service), and got accepted to UCSB. Some of my half-asians and half-white (Amerasians*) friends, who had much lower SAT score and GPA got accepted to UCSB also. In my view, race itself hardly seems to be a factor. However, I only say this to counterbalance your experience and perspective and emphasize the fact that results of few can hardly reflect the entire situation.</p>
<p>*I do not believe this would be considered as a URM.</p>
<p>I don't think they're 100% impartial, but likely racially-motivated admissions remain the exception, not the rule. One of my friends referred to a person with a 3.0 who got into Berkeley, and is African American. Do things like this happen? Evidence would suggest that. But 1 or even 100 students that are admitted based on this preference would account for less than .47% of all admissions to UCSB, or likely any other UC. When mentioning race as a factor in several of the posters examples, not once was economic status, or education of parents, ever mentioned. If either one of these is on the low side, UC's WILL consider that into comprehensive review, and the propensity for certain minorities to occupy this status only serves to perpetuate this belief in racial preference in admission in some people's opinions, not as a testament of racial segregation in society.</p>