<p>Can you tell us more about the mean "put down" from the Middlebury adcom? I'm really interested in hearing what the he said that so upset you and your daughter.</p>
<p>And did you know that the area around Claremont McKenna's campus is terrible and the campus itself is not aesthetically pleasing? It's also a party school where all the kids get drunk every weekend. It's nearly impossible to get a grade lower than a C. You might be surprised to know that the kids there are only interested in money and power, and if you're not, you won't fit in. And the students are unbearably conservative and selfish. It can also be a lot like high school (rumors, reputations, etc.). I could go on...</p>
<p>How do I know this? I read it all on studentsreview. </p>
<p>Of course I don't believe any of these things to be true for the majority of students at CMC. I know it's an excellent school with smart kids. I hope you see my point...</p>
<p>Graduation rates at Middlebury for African-Americans are atrocious -- less than 70% of black students graduate. CMC and Pomona have high graduation rates for black students. Middlebury doesn't. The studentsreview.com of Middlebury post fall in line with the statistics.</p>
<p>72% of black students go on to graduate from Middlebury, far above the national average of 42%. Middlebury's African-American graduation rate is at least 10% higher than all but one historically black college. Am I satisfied with 72%? Not at all. There's a ton of room for improvement. Like I said, Middlebury is trying hard to increase the percentage of minority students on campus.</p>
<p>From the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Geographic location unquestionably plays a major role in black student graduation rates. For example, Bates College in Maine is located in a rural area with a very small to negligible black population. The same holds true for Grinnell College in Iowa, Oberlin College in Ohio, and Carleton College in Minnesota. Black student graduation rates at many of these rural schools are lower than at colleges and universities in urban areas.</p>
<p>Among the nation’s colleges and universities that are commonly rated as selective, the lowest black student graduation rate occurs at Carleton College in Minnesota. Currently only 66 percent of the black freshmen who enroll at Carleton College go on to graduate. </p>
<p>The presence of a strong and relatively large core of black students on campus is important. Among the highest-ranked colleges and universities, institutions that tend to have a low percentage of blacks in their student bodies, such as CalTech, Bates, Middlebury, Grinnell, Davidson, Carleton, and Colby, also tend to have lower black student graduation rates. Black students who attend these schools may have problems adjusting to college life in an overwhelmingly white environment. And these schools are less likely to have a large number of black-oriented social or cultural events to make black students feel at home.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As I said before--CMC and Pomona are in suburban Los Angeles. Middlebury is in rural Vermont--the whitest state in the union. The African-American students I knew at Middlebury didn't leave because they felt unwelcomed on campus--they left because they had trouble adjusting to rural Vermont. This has more to do with location than overt racism.</p>
<p>"Failure to graduate" means nothing more than the failure to graduate from the particular school about whom the statistic applies. It does not tell you whether or not a student went on to earn their degree from another institution, or whether they dropped out due to economic hardship, or family crisis, or mental or physical health challenges. It seems to be the case however, that whenever "failure to graduate" statistics are applied to minority students, they're always used to bludgeon them with allegations of "lack of academic preparedness". Minority students are as individual as any other kid. They drop out/transfer out of any given school for as many reasons as that school's white students who leave. Think about the myriad reasons CC parents have expressed concern over the possibility that their kids might leave school: immaturity, family emergency, illness, "poor fit", and yes, academic ill-preparedness". Why are "failure to graduate" statistics only "telling" when they apply to minority students?</p>
<p>As someone who visited Middlebury, did an overnight, then immediately crossed it off my college list, here's what I think-</p>
<p>I ended up at a "white school". In "urban" Maine (which is suburban or rural anywhere else), there are few minorities who even apply to my school. I don't know if it's a function of statistics (most minorities are thrown off by such an overwhelmingly white school) the fact that it's in rural Maine (where not very many people want to come ANYWAY) or a function of feeling displaced (though not disincluded) on a campus where everyone looks different when they visit, or really any number of other reasons, but I can categorically say as a minority that it is NOT because of feeling unwelcome on campus. I have never once felt "different" because of my race on campus. Perhaps I bemoan the lack of food with real ethnic flavor, or I laugh when all of my friends want to go lie out in the sun and tan, but I have never once felt disincluded, treated differently, or had someone assume something about me purely based on my race.</p>
<p>In contrast, at Middlebury, I felt the exact opposite. I did an overnight, where I was told by multiple people "yeah there are parties, but you'll probably be studying all the time anyway because you've got Indian parents" or "yeah, the black kids mostly all hang out together and so do the white kids" etc. The only student of color I met there (African-American) pulled me aside and categorically told me NOT to apply to Middlebury, because I would NOT feel comfortable, and I WOULD be made to feel differently because of my race.</p>
<p>Well. Off of the list went Middlebury.</p>
<p>Again, this is just one person's story, and I'm sure it in no way represents what all Middlebury students think/feel/believe. But I do think it's something to be aware of when deciding on colleges.</p>
<p>luckycharmed--a good friend of mine who went to Bates said that racism is alive and well there, and that there were many times when he felt discriminated against or like an outcast. He also said that racism is prevalent in Lewiston, and that he was very anxious when going into town during the Somalis protest in 2002. Is his experience typical? I don't know. I'm sure there are many people at Bates who embrace diversity and why try their best to make minorities feel at home. The same is true, however, at Middlebury. In fact, I'm sure that in many respects, there are very small differences between kids at Bates and kids at Middlebury. They share quite a few applicants, and who ends up where is more a function of minor personal preferences and admissions decisions than anything else.</p>
<p>My best advice for anyone looking into Middlebury who has concerns about racism, discrimination, or any other diversity issues is to contact Shirley Ramirez, Dean for Institutional Diversity (<a href="mailto:ramirezs@middlebury.edu">ramirezs@middlebury.edu</a>). She's in the best position to help answer questions you may have. She can also put you in touch with members of the African-American Alliance. If you visit Middlebury, they can arrange for you to meet with minority students to get a better perspective of life on campus.</p>
<p>Again, it's important to listen to other people's opinions (like luckycharmed), but don't rely on other people's experiences when determining your own future. Talk to students who go there, visit for yourself, and make informed decisions.</p>
<p>"Among the highest-ranked colleges and universities, institutions that tend to have a low percentage of blacks in their student bodies, such as CalTech, Bates, Middlebury, Grinnell, Davidson, Carleton, and Colby, also tend to have lower black student graduation rates."</p>
<p>generally, black applicants are accepted with stats lower than those of other applicants so i am not surprise to see that they have lower graduation rates.</p>
<p>wow. I had the same reaction you did, P3T. </p>
<p>I think in assessing the attitudes of students on particular campuses, it would be interesting to know what college, if any, "collegeprep11" attends.</p>
<p>"It seems to be the case however, that whenever "failure to graduate" statistics are applied to minority students, they're always used to bludgeon them with allegations of "lack of academic preparedness"."</p>
<p>"generally, black applicants are accepted with stats lower than those of other applicants so i am not surprise to see that they have lower graduation rates."</p>
<p>Arcadia - that article is about one CMC professor who had just converted to Judaism and was charged with staging an anti-semitic "hoax" attack on her own car. She was taking Jewish indoctrination classes at the time of the incident with a rabbi and the hoax may have been a mandatory initiation rite. Far from a "bunch of anti-semitic racists".</p>
<p>SarahsDad--Read my post more closely (along with those above it). My point is that a single incident doesn't characterize an entire school's attitude toward diversity. It's called sarcasm.</p>
<p>ErlindaP was judging Middlebury's tolerance toward people with learning disabilities (and, taken a step further, toward minorities) based on a negative interaction with a single adcom member, and I was simply trying to expose the flawed logic of her argument. I don't really think that CMC professors are a bunch of anti-semitic ractists!</p>
<p>Yikes, SarahsDad, I read that link and actually it reeks of antiSemitism in its own writer's voice! So two strikes against it. This stuff is typical and found on the 'net these days. What a shame it was picked up by students. Critical reading and thinking will help people analyze these sources and see them for what they are, just hate mongering. THere are no such "initiation rites" to destroy property when some takes conversion (not "indoctrination" classes) for Judaism. There ARE ceremonies to mark the occasion, such as immersion in a ritual bath and special prayers, but it's something solemn and beautiful. Never would there be a directive from a rabbi to mess up one's own property and add to antiSemitism by painting swastikas on one's own car! I'm a rabbi's wife so really I know whereof I speak on this. </p>
<p>If such a thing ever happened, the professor may have other problems of mental stability (I conjecture) but that's one for the courts to decide. I don't believe an inch of that article, because it so discredited itself in its final several sentences with antiSemitc invective. Put that entire article aside as wacko! Just because we read it in print on the 'net doesn't mean it's true.</p>
<p>Arcadia, I caught the sarcasm the first time. Oddly, humor doesn't translate very well on these written forums, I don't know why. Others have commented on this in Parents. Trying to talk tongue-in-cheek; sure you did it great, and then some poor soul misunderstands and feels hurt. Thanks for those emoticons, they help :)</p>
<p>"It seems to be the case however, that whenever "failure to graduate" statistics are applied to minority students, they're always used to bludgeon them with allegations of "lack of academic preparedness"."</p>
<p>everyone knows that urm applicants get 'special' considerations when applying to schools so why can't we all admit that it's not race we're talking about but the admission process that favors certain groups of applicants e.g. urms, legacies and athletes. i am sure graduation rates for athletes are lower than those of non-athletes. disagree?</p>
<p>I'm not sure where I read this but I think recent studies have shown that AA students actually graduate from elite colleges at higher rates than whites.</p>
<p>Arcadia, I think I know how you can put the issue of the climate of tolerance at Middlebury to rest. I looked over your past posts and I saw this was not the first time in the last twelve months that the issue of the negative reviews on Student Review had come up, and in fact several other posters had the same concerns I did after reading those reviews. If they are invalid it appears the site has a way of takling them down. Middlebury had three posts, two positive and one neutral, that had already been taken down as invalid. Having these negative posts out there on a site that lots of people refer to is not good for the college's image. You, college administrators or the Diversity Officer Shirley Ramirez should contact the site administrator at Student Review and try to find out if these are valid posts from actual Middlebury students and alums. If they are not they can be taken down or marked invalid. If they are from people with actual ties to the college, the diversity office should be contacting them for exit interviews to see if they can gain some addition insight into what the Middlebury experience is like for minority students. It is also possible to PM people on Student Review or send them an e-mail. That might be another way to see if there is anything substantial to what they are saying. If an effort is made to see if there is something to these posts and it's impossible to establish what connection there is between the posters and the college, it would be good to know that as well. I hope you follow through on this suggestion and get back to us with what you find out. There are several of these posts on Student Review, as well another opinion site, and I assumed they were from alums and students of Middlebury. That may have been unfair. I'd like to know the real story.</p>
<p>I used to be on the parent diversity committee at my daughter's highschool. I know that these are not simple issues to deal with in any setting.</p>
<p>^^Great suggestion. As well, I think it could be revealing to track down that suspicious post we discussed in posts 31-33, allegedly from Claremont, and it appeared as part of Student Review. I'd bet money that it wasn't written by a Claremont student; it smacks of all the antiSemitism of hate sites by adults on the internet these days, with many key phrases familiar to those who track antiSemitic websites. AntiSemitism is just another form of racism, and none of this should smear the good name of any college. </p>
<p>Something's fishy, at Middlebury, Claremont, probably more with the "Student Review" from what we've seen on this thread already. </p>
<p>Maybe a student just clips something found on the 'net as his own review? So that's a plagiarism issue, too.</p>
<p>Just to back up a minute: it really shouldn't be surprising if there are more expressions of what one might consider racism at the nation's colleges and universities, especially the prestige ones. Public schools in the U.S. are now more segregated than at any time since the early 1970s; many private schools are not much different. The economic class divisions are even greater, with most prestige colleges less economically diverse than they were 25 years ago. </p>
<p>Folks of other races, persuasions, or economic classes just don't have all that much experience of mixing. Most often racism takes the form of insensitivity.</p>
<p>In the past three years at my alma mater, there has been one incident where posters have appeared on Jewish student doors celebrating Hitler's Birthday (a "teach-in" was scheduled following, only 17 students showed up, virtually all of them Jewish, and no representative from the administration attended; the student was unapologetic, and the administration took no action); a faculty member threw a racial slur at another one during a department meeting; two Hispanic students faced ethnic slurs (and may have been spit upon) from a drunken student; a department head scheduled a "KKK" barbeque party (he was not referencing the Klan at all, but thought it was cute). More often, I imagine, the slurs and cuts are far more subtle, and I am sure they aren't limited to my alma mater.</p>
<p>The information about the incident at CMC was not from Student Review or any other mainstream publication but pasted into this forum by arcadia from a right wing webzine. If you follow his link you will see this.</p>
<p>There is an accurate description of what happened at CMC on the Wikipedia site for the college. This was a hoax by an individual who had gone off the deep end. One of the research institutes at CMC is a Center for Holocaust Studies, Genocide and Human Rights. Arcadia's sarcastic flame was obviosly also somewhat of a red herring. I'm clearly now questioning the Student Review posts about Middlebury but Arcadia had to really dig deep into the internet twilight zone to come up with his flame of CMC. I get that he was being sarcastic but obviously some readers of this forum did not. These are serious questions that our whole society is grappling with so it's porobably better not to be throwing dust in the air.</p>
<p>I went on student review to see if I could find out how they collect their surveys and if there is any quality control. Here's a link to what I found.</p>
<p>People who are curious can look for themselves. I'm not 100% satisfied that
they have a way to keep posts from ringers off the site. I am going to see if I can find out whether there is any control over who posts from the site administrator.</p>
<p>This is a copy of the note I just sent to the site administrator;</p>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I posted a link to some reviews about racism at a well known East Coast Liberal Arts College on a College Confidential forum about racism. </p>
<p>I was immediately challenged by someone from that college who said there was no way for you to tell if the posts came from students or alums of the college in question and that they were probably from folks at a rival college. I found partial answers to his question on your FAQ board but I couldn't tell how you know that the reviews posted are from legitimate students or alums from the college in question. This is an important debate on an online forum that lots of parents and students read and refer to in their decision making process. I will post any insight you can give me about how you know students actually attend or have attended the college they are reviewing. I've already posted a link to you FAQ page. I will PM this e-mail address to the representative of the college in question so he can contact you directly with his concerns. These are serious allegations and if they are illegitimate they should be taken down.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your attention to this matter,</p>