@Wellspring My four year old wouldn’t be there and if he was, I would be incredibly biased and in no way qualified to make a decision. The only thing this situation has showed me is that we have a lot of inept parents who make excuses for their ineptitude and that humans are too soft. Objectively speaking, an endangered species is more valuable than an overpopulating one. The kid made his choice. As someone who has been taking care of four year olds for more than 5 years, I can assure you that 4 year olds aren’t inherently dumb because they are 4. Like with all age groups, there are ones that are smart and ones that aren’t.
Tragic situation, the gorilla should’ve been the first priority. Use a tranquilizer and if the child gets killed after, that’s on him or his mom. There are plenty of kids out there. Not a lot of gorillas.
Just being objective but, I’m not changing any minds so I’ll leave that there.
I just…don’t…can’t…wow, just wow.
The ignore function is your friend. Just click on the user’s name, then choose “ignore”.
So what does that mean, “the kid made his choice”? The kid “chose” to ignore his mother’s instructions, as 4 year old kids do every single day. He didn’t “choose” to wind up in a life-threatening situation, and he didn’t “choose” to put the gorilla in a life-threatening situation, either. If you take care of 4 year olds every day, you know that they are incapable of understanding cause and effect or logical consequences in the way adults or even adolescents understand those concepts (smart or not). Something terrible happened because a little boy disobeyed his mother. That doesn’t mean that he chose to put himself in jeopardy and so therefore could possibly deserve what might happen to him in the animal enclosure, because he had no way of understanding what might happen.
Every. single. four-year-old disobeys. Thankfully, the consequences aren’t always so upsetting, though sometimes they’re even worse (playing with matches? Opening the gate to the swimming pool?). Without meaning to be disrespectful or argumentative, I have to say I’m thankful you’re not watching my grandchild.
I’d like people who can predict the future to pm me the winning lotto numbers.
Being a parent requires great skills, yeah. And it’s also one of the hardest jobs out there. Nothing compares. It’s a long period of 24/7/365 responsibility and a lifetime of worry. There is no canned formula. No, “I’m smarter than you are,” despite the way we sometimes let down our own sense and boundaries on a public forum.
Many of us are humbled when in it (parenting) and remembering back to our early 20’s, when we thought we knew it all.
From a keeper who works with gorillas:
I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren’t familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.
Now Gorillas are considered ‘gentle giants’ at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.
Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.
I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback’s postering, and tight lips, it’s pretty much the stuff of any keeper’s nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.
I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.
Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn’t they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn’t use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would’ve taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would’ve have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can’t point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal’s exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It’s unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.
I have a random question-has anyone every cooked an entire (small) turkey in a crock pot, and how did it come out?
Whoa - this thread gives me whiplash.
MOD - I do not have a crockpot that would hold even a small turkey, but I have cooked a whole chicken in one & it came out wonderfully. I’m not sure why I dont’ do that all the time, now that you mention it.
@GertrudeMcFuzz how do you cook it? Do you add liquid? I’m thinking I don’t want the turkey to be soggy. I’ve googled a few recipes, and found one that might work with just a dry rub with onion soup, but was wondering if other people have tried crock pot turkey…
Marcella Hazan has a famous and very easy roast chicken recipe that you could adapt to a turkey.
http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015182-marcella-hazans-roast-chicken-with-lemons
When I made this, the skin burst so I would put a thin layer of fat on the bottom of the pan.
It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure I did just what you said - a dry rub, then into the pot. Chickens are usually juicy enough that they shouldn’t need additional liquid in a crockpot. Turkey might be a bit drier? Maybe some quartered onions/celery in the bottom would keep it moist without making it soggy.
@AboutTheSame: That was extremely informative and helpful. Thank you.
Anyone watching the *Roots * remake on The History Channel?
I watched the first night, but haven’t had the time to watch the other episodes. I hope to catch replays, if possible. I saw the original back in the 70’s, so watching this version isn’t vital.
I wanted to watch the Roots remake, but the commercials made me ugly-cry, so I didn’t think I could handle the entire show.
No cable here, so can’t watch Roots (it is only on cable, correct?)
Hope this is the right place… I haven’t been to NYC in over 5-6 years and am going two weeks from today. My plane lands around 2:15 at LaGuardia. What’s the best way to get down to the Tribeca area from the airport? Is there a shuttle bus I can take into midtown, then take a cab to the hotel? If so, is it a hassle? Just cab it the whole way? Cost? Return trip to the airport will be on a Sunday if that makes a difference.
teriwitt, I can vouch for NYCAirporter:
http://www.nycairporter.com/
You could take their minibus to Penn Station and then a cab to Soho. That would probably be the cheapest way using this method.
You could also take the Q70 limited stop city bus to the Jackson Heights subway station and then the E train to Canal St. or Chambers St. (depending on where in Tribeca you’re going). It’s a short bus ride to the subway, very easy and fast and there are Metrocard vending machines in the terminals at the airport. The fare is $2.75 for one ride which includes the bus and the subway, plus $1.00 for the Metrocard which is refillable forever (or until you lose it). The machines take credit/debit cards and make change for cash purchases.The subway station has elevators to all of the platforms. The trip should take around an hour total.
More info here:
http://laguardiaairport.com/getting-to-from/
I am not sure how much cab rides will cost–I almost never take them. Sorry! But as always, the fare depends on the traffic.
Have a good trip!
Thanks @oldmom4896! This is all ringing familiar now, that I might have taken something like that (NYCAirporter) before. I got my hopes up for a minute when I read their website, that some hotels offer free shuttles, but when I checked the address of our hotel, they do not go that far south. Oh, well. The hotel’s website also says an average taxi ride from LGA is about $55. So I will take shuttle into Penn Station, then a cab to the hotel. I’m thinking on a Friday afternoon a cab ride could cost more, too, and I’d likely be much more comfortable on a bus and less likely to get motion sickness if there is stop and go traffic.