Random thoughts on UChicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
1

It’s so interesting to read the different perspectives about UChicago on this board. If nothing else, ‘UChicago’ certainly elicits heated debates on CC. I have no opinion in the ED/EA/RD discussion, but wanted to include some random thoughts.

Regarding the applicant pool: as a parent who has been around specialized high school students (majority of whom are low income kids), it seems, at least in our circle, that it is more or less the same applicant pool for the UChicago, ivies, and SM.

Regarding the lists/rankings: my S applied to UChicago and other reach schools because we wanted a place where he could be among his peers intellectually and also expose him to an academic environment which would further cultivate his inquiring mind. That is why some kids apply to top tier schools. People sometimes say, “but not all top tier schools are the same, some are rural, some are large, some are ives, some are preppy, etc., there are distinctions!” but for us, those were not really considerations. The most important for us is an environment on par with him intellectually, and that is why he applied to the ‘elite’ colleges. We didn’t care (too much) about urban or rural, large or small, ivy, or not, preppy or not, etc. It’s the community that matters. UChicago and HYPSM+ other ivies, etc. have that community, and all the better that it is on those darn lists! While we didn’t take those rankings to heart, being on them at least ensures stellar academics, as oppose to a school not being on the ‘list,’ my S might have to work harder to work harder, heh, but high quality academics can at least be ensured with the schools on the ‘lists.’ So, distinctions? Sure, the top tier schools are distinctively stellar academically and intellectually from the other 2000 institutions. Conveniently, we like the rankings now, because UChicago comes out strong on it, not gonna lie. #1 here we come!

Regarding the brand name: while some of us have known about UChicago forever, it’s also very true that the name is met with puzzled looks by some people, as in: Why so far? However, my son doesn’t care whether the casual person (read: old) has heard of UChicago, but does care whether people of influence would know of it. Presently though, UChicago does have a brand name among the high school grads and parents of this generation. Personally, I love it.

Regarding the prestige: yes, the prestige of UChicago is very attractive.

Mainly for us though, UChicago (and the other reach schools) are intellectual powerhouses and that is why he was interested in the schools on those “lists” plus the fact that he wants to be a wall street titan with brains . (Hope we didn’t disappoint any alums by disclosing his ambitions.)

(Also, after our college tours, we realized that there are probably so many great institutions that are not considered “elite,” University of Rochester–I’m looking at you, but that’s for another thread.)

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@uocparent I like your moniker and wish you luck in actualizing it.

As William James pointed out, before every act comes the aspiration. You will never jump the ditch unless you first get into your head the notion, usually without complete analysis of the matter, that you can do it. And prior to that idea lies the deeper one - that this particular ditch, of all others in the world, is the one you want to jump over. You could apply that thought to choice of a school, but I won’t labor the analogy.

I do want to explicate the cryptic comment of my old prof, Norman Maclean, later known to the world as the author of “A River Runs Through It”. He’s saying that it’s not intellectually honest nor very persuasive to deploy blunderbuss adjectives in an argument. You’re making the adjectives do all the work. You need to convince your reader or interlocutor with more subtle logical and rhetorical devices than those blunt instruments. There’s an element of bad faith in this as well: You’re attempting to steal a base, to overcome objection without actually dealing with it, to cow opposition - in effect to end all discussion before it even begins. God knows we see enough of this in political discourse, but it’s bad for understanding the world, bad for one’s ability to entertain and analyze complex subjects - I would argue, with Plato, that it’s bad for the soul. Remember that every one of Socrates’ interlocutors started with simple and vehement opinions, all of which were revealed as unsupportable.

Socrates was in any event dealing with the biggest questions, where a certain vehemence on moral grounds might be expected. However we tend to trot out these inflammatory adjectives on every lesser occasion, say a debate about admissions at a college. That’s where the second part of Maclean’s comment especially applies: “Save that language for life’s enormities”. You could call this a way of saying “Don’t cry wolf”. Your big adjectives will have no effect when they might actually apply if you’ve dulled them by perpetual use to describe every little thing that annoys you.

Anyhow, that’s Maclean talking, not me. I was the callow young man those comments were directed to. They and many like them sobered me and shook me out of my “dogmatic slumber”. They especially taught me to think carefully about the meaning and effect of words. That’s the purpose of an education.

3

…so carrying on the discussion with random thoughts on UChicago

  1. The trustees love Nondorf. Why? Because he is flawless executing what they want, which is to have the name brand recognition of HYPS, whether the alumni like it or not. It seems the trustees have always believed that academically they were on the same level but just didn't have the same name brand. Still the trustees want to be differentiated from that group so it will be interesting to see what happens to the core/class size/quirky qualities/free speech/etc.
  2. UChicago is coming into the STEM world (really the TE part, they were already strong in SM) with, IMO, the absolutely correct strategy. Instead of the traditional engineering, they are using areas they are already strong in to build a cutting edge engineering program leaving the civil/mechanical/electrical/etc. to those who are already strong in it. If you want to know where tech and engineering are heading, its straight into the AI and quantum computing world. Both of which UChicago is heavily investing in via the CS and molecular engineering programs.
  3. Rankings, personally you see the North East contingent (bias) complaining about USNWR the most, they barely acknowledge that Stanford is on the same level as Harvard, (they usually qualify that with a "its only due to tech and silicon valley that they are") and anyone else outside the HYPSM group is an also ran. It really chaps them to see another name besides HYP in the top 3. <:-P Just human nature to want your area of the world to host the best colleges. For those who don't like rankings, great, don't use them, I've already expressed the appropriate use of them ad nauseum.
4

Well here are some of my random thoughts on UChicago:

  • I think UChicago is quite a little bit like Columbia, from what I can tell (which isn't really much since i attended neither; but that little bit I think I know is based on what others have written here, so there is that): both have a core; both are not known as particularly party-heavy campuses; both are highly regarded; both are urban; both are said to be "hard" -- lots of work, long hours studying, etc.; both seem to have their fair share of serious students and are, despite being in such financial/business centers, relatively intellectual-leaning in terms of academic vibe. I think, then, that a lot of kids hot for UChicago ought to consider Columbia as a regal backup, and vice-versa.
  • I think UChicago's rise in the USNews undergrad rankings is probably well-deserved. Certainly the grad/PhD programs (many individually and overall) have been lauded for a long time, so it makes sense for the college to follow, given all the stats that point to such quality.
  • I think UChicago is probably on par with HYPSM (and Columbia...) in terms of the quality of academics. HYPSM obviously have advantages in Engineering because they offer (more of...) the traditional disciplines. But what UChicago does offer is outstanding.

If you want to combine the usual(ish) breadth of university majors and opportunities with the intellectual vibe of a LAC, UChicago is among the best options.

5

About STEM, I am hypothesizing that UChicago is testing the waters in a lot of T&E subjects where it is not a player - and not just in Molecular Engineering or Computer Science either.

Check out the Health IT masters courses and certificate courses at Graham. I have been seeing a deluge of online ads fb about them. Not quite ready for primetime, and it may never be… it is, after all, in Online/Continuing/General Studies… but you never know what else is being tested/considered out there. I suspect that in true UChicago fashion, someone is quietly collecting and analyzing data to figure out what other T&E programs would be a good fit for UChicago.

Here’s what else I think should be tested before further expansion into a real program: “Data Science” through Booth, Medical Devices through the cancer research center, Robotics and advanced materials through the army research lab.

6

Did anyone read Steve Han’s short article “What I Wish UChicago Had Taught Me”? (please google it!) I enjoyed reading it, and while his experience is probably not unique to UChicago, gives a perspective of life at UChicago from one recent alum’s point of view.

What do you think?

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I respect Mr. Han for admitting some things in a public forum. I am amazed and impressed by all the things he did and accomplished, particularly that he was considerate and caring for others. I certainly wish him the best, I’d be willing to be a lot of money that he will do very well in life by whatever measure you want to use.

I believe the University could perhaps do a better job of easing undergraduates out. But at the end of the day, I think the article is more about Mr. Han than it is about the University of Chicago. Most college graduates wrestle with the separation from their undergraduate institutions. There are reasons that time is often referred to as, “the best time of my life”. I think Mr. Han is expressing a feeling that the majority of new graduates feel, which is dealt with more or less successfully depending on the makeup of the individual.

I would say to Mr. Han that he should relish the memories. Savor them. But let them strengthen you and not get in the way of starting to find your way along the 60 or so year journey he is starting.

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That blog post is something that none of us would have imagined someone writing 30 years ago! Kudos to the College for supporting this young man and allowing him to thrive. Of course he hasn’t really “left” - should he choose to, he can be active in the Alumnae Association and donate his time and talents to the College in numerous ways: helping out in Admissions, serving on a panel or two, interviewing applicants . . the list goes on and on, and what a great way to give back to the University he called home for 4 years!

Chicago has a ton of alums and most likely an active alumnae network.

He hasn’t really “left home” - he’s just moved out for a bit.

9

That Han piece is something! Two reactions:

  1. Get that kid on CC! He would be a great source of information and guidance to prospective University of Chicago students.
  2. Best argument ever for NOT living on campus all four years. Had he done what the vast majority of Chicago undergraduates do -- moved off campus at least for his fourth year, and probably third year, too -- he would still have plenty of warm memories, but he wouldn't view organizing House trips as the most rewarding experience he ever had.

This also lets me know I dodged a bullet when I decided not to stay at my undergraduate university for professional school, and in the process turned down an offer to become its equivalent of an RA. I sensed that I would grow more if I moved away (and if I stopped living in dorms), and I was right. I could easily have felt a lot of the same feelings.

My younger child only spent one year in a UChicago dorm. But he has never really left the University of Chicago. He did work elsewhere (in Chicago) for two years, but then returned to the University of Chicago for a masters program. He has worked on campus ever since. Every woman he dated in the past 11 years, including the one he married, was a University of Chicago undergraduate.

You can tell – his perspective on things is a little insular. I hope someday he tries life outside the bubble.

10

His blog is also a testament to the thriving campus environment and housing system at UChicago.

I dunno, @jhs, I think students staying on campus is important though, because the experiences and bonds he comes away with is worth the adjustment time. College is such a short lived moment, that if a student really enjoys the housing system, they should stay. (however, @jhs, I totally see where you’re coming from.)

He’ll probably do great, he did say ‘stay tuned’ when writing about his future aspirations of changing the world :wink: .

Yes, true, @jbstillflying he hasn’t really “left home” but only ‘moved’ to a new house, because he’ll always be a part of the “family.” !

11

I’m not worried about this guy. He will make a Second City shtik out of these withdrawal pains of his. Indeed, the last time I saw a Second City show one of the bits consisted of a series of riffs by several of the performers (they must all have been U of C grads) on the differences between NU kids and U of C kids. The dice are always loaded at Second City. Worthy plain-vanilla NU always gets the wrong end of the shtik there. That’s a tradition.

This kid is saying somewhat melodramatically (I think partly for effect - he is a performer) what many of us felt but kept to ourselves: Post-Chicago life takes a bit of getting used to. There’s such a high-tension sort of excitement at the place, one’s young life is so full of ups and downs, so many momentous discoveries - and a few operatic descents into the Slough of Despond. The outside world seems at first pedestrian and uninspiring by comparison. All the more reason to live up those years as fully as possible. They won’t come again, and you will always remember them.

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“Indeed, the last time I saw a Second City show one of the bits consisted of a series of riffs by several of the performers (they must all have been U of C grads) on the differences between NU kids and U of C kids”

  • Or they know their audience :))

“Slough of Despond”

  • have to remember that one. Pretty sure that's what I stepped in accidentally when crossing the quad one day. Hopefully all dried up and gone by end of March :))
13

If the Slough of Despond were ever fully drained, where would a U of C kid get his/her daily dose of angst and hence experience the joy of the sovereign antidote therefor - a cup of steaming black coffee?