I agree 
A similar sentiment is often expressed on these forums about CS as well.
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Not the same or similar bcuz wpi is different than any semester (and quarter) school as an example. . And some are more hands on whereas others more theoretical.
ABET is an accreditation.
All Marriotts arenât the same but all meet (or should) a minimum and standardized level of competency as determined by Marriott.
And employers seem to agree. Hence many require it.
I didnât mention wpi at all.
In any case, selective employers know the difference in strength across schools, and choose to target certain ones.
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No - I mentioned WPI because they are on 7 week terms and are project based.
A U of Michigan is semester - and at least as someone wrote the other day is theory based.
We hear about Louisville or Cal Poly that they are project/hands on based and hear from @momofboiler1 about Purdue - they have way more project / design work than mine did at Alabama.
I was just noting that all programs arenât the same but the ABET at least gives a validation, if you will.
Perhaps I should have responded to the group and not you specifically.
Thanks
Michiganâs theory based? Huh 
.
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Someone wrote that the other day as I noted - I donât know.
Let me find the quote and Iâll add if I can. It was about - someoneâs spouse wonât hire Michigan grads because of it.
I am just laughing over here 
âŠ
So here is the reality. I met someone in Michigan thatâs company only hires from Northern Illinois University for years. I asked why and he said âthey produce the type of engineers our company needsâ.
Many companies find a type they like and go with that. Many only hire from X school since the CEO and board members went there and so on.
But getting back to the OP⊠Abet is just the standard. Schools themselves are so different in their approach and school culture. When I hear Brown I donât think engineering at all. Medicine maybe but not engineering⊠Their approach to CS in this case will be vastly different then Purdue, Michigan and UIUC. It wonât even be close but all are Abet certified.
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I compared UT Dallas with Brown. It was a little tricky because Dallas has more courses that are specifically required, while Brown gives a choice of a few for some categories. I assigned a required Dallas class to the Brown category it fit into in those cases. In the end:
- Dallas requires an additional lower level CS course
- Dallas requires both an Engineering Ethics & an Engineering Communications course
- Dallas requires 6 additional upper level technical electives (one of which must be a lab)
I took a quick look at CE requirements for UT Dallas. It has a set of core requirements (14 courses total):
| Subject | |
|---|---|
| Math/Calculus | 3 |
| Natural Sciences | 2 |
| Humanities | 3 |
| Social Sciences | 3 |
| Arts | 1 |
| Commutication & Writing | 2 |
| Total | 14 |
Thereâre 9 additional required courses for the CE major (other required courses overlap with core requirements):
| Subject | |
|---|---|
| Intro to CE | 2 |
| Programming | 1 |
| Intro to CS | 1 |
| CS 1 & 2 | 2 |
| Linear Algebra | 1 |
| Discrete Math | 1 |
| Intro to System | 1 |
| Total | 9 |
Major electives:
| Subject | |
|---|---|
| Math Elective | 1 |
| CE Electives | 10-15 |
| Guided Electives | 2 |
| Total | 13-18 |
So, in total, thereâre 22-27 courses for the major (+14 other core courses). A student, without any college course credit, would have to take 4-5 courses each semester to complete the degree in 8 semesters. Iâll take a look at Brownâs requirements later.
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I think weâre seeing the same thing, but I organized the classes a little differently since some of the classes that meet the general education requirements are met by classes required for the major. But, I understand that the way you categorized them makes sense because classes taken outside the major, even if they are major requirements, might be more likely to be usable across multiple majors if one decided to switch.
You write 10 to 15 CE âelectives,â but since this indicates the Major Core Classes (except the laboratory class list from which 1 is chosen) are all required with no choices (unless I am misunderstanding that?), I just called them all upper level requirements. That is 10 3-hour classes not included in another category, plus 2 classes (6 hours) of senior project, and 7 hours (4 classes) of shorter class requirements.
Put another way, there are 63 credit hours (about 21 classes) required in the major (that are not classes that also meet Gen Ed requirements) and another 11 credit hours (4 classes) of in-major electives.
One relevant thing for my kid is that there are very few options for customizing the major to his interests here. Within the major requirements, there are only 4 classes where he gets to choose.
Another relevant point is that, even though a number of classes are only one or two units, there are a lot of classes that have to be taken. And that means pretty much every semester has at least 5 separate classes, and some semesters have 6 or 7. Maybe two of those are only one unit so they arenât much work, but that is a lot of meeting times and administrative stuff to keep track of. It might be totally fine for him, but it is going to be a different experience than a school where he is taking and managing only 4 classes at a time.
My guess is if he wants to customize, a bigger program may have more classes. But the majors are going to be defined in engineering.
If he wanted to create his own interdisciplinary major, he could do so but it wouldnât be engineering.
There are schools where maybe he could flex more but then would likely lose ABET.
But schools will have electives in different areas whether manufacturing, an industry like automotive, or more. But I donât think you can full bore change an engineering curriculum within a defined concentration.
Certainly heâll find an array of projects in class and clubs do while the coursework may be standardized, heâll still have the opportunity to differentiate if he makes that effort.
Lots of engineers have various interests. My guess is your kid is not uncommon. If he finds the right environment, heâll be fine and find room to exploreâŠespecially if he chooses a school that will honor his DE credits (sorry Brown).
This is going to be pretty much any school. There are always the 1/2 credit classes but yes they take up time. If your worried about the work load then look at doing this in 5 years vs 4 could be a strategy.
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Purdue, Michigan and UIUC place CS kids far less well than Brown does. Food for thought.
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What does this mean?
Median pay (4 years out of college) for CS grads from Brown is much higher than the median pay for CS grads from the other three schools on the college scorecard website maintained by the govt.
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I was only counting full courses (not the 1- or 2-credit courses). Among the âMajor Core Coursesâ, the first 3 are such courses. The 4th course overlap with other requirements so it wasnât included either.
I also took a quick look at Brownâs requirements this morning. It does appear to be lighter (not that surprising, considering Brownâs partiality for less restrictive curriculum). Iâm not familiar with ABETâs certification process with regard to CE, but I suspect itâs also less restrictive, more dynamic, and more high-level and broad principle-based than in other more traditional engineering disciplines.
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This post by @MWolf in another thread may be worth reading:
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I saw his comment. The median numbers from the govt website are recent. Not from 2010.
How many CS graduate from Brown each year compared to Purdue, University of Michigan, etc. Also, what industry are the CS grads going into from Brown? IB/consulting? For instance, my daughter is in the aerospace industry she works with engineers from MIT to Colorado School of Mines⊠her company does not pay more for engineer grads based on the school.
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Pay wonât be different for the same job. Composition of jobs has to be different.
In 2021 they graduated 182 kids. Not a tiny program. Smaller than the other three. As a student I donât care if I get more attention.
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