<p>"D" is working with a tutor and definitely does intend to take the SAT again and the ACT in the spring. D's tutor went to Saint Anselm by the way and thinks the world of the school. What I'm learning is that most people end up pleased with thier final decision and look back fondly on thier undergrad days. Nice to know.</p>
<p>Lord Almighty, any one of the Five Colleges consortium! </p>
<p>Being a member of that group effectively vitiates the 'single-sex' issue at MH; alternatively, she could go to Hampshire or UMASS.</p>
<p>Okay, Nightingale, well answered and I withdraw my concern...I hope I wasn't excessively impertinent. (Beyond my normal, that its.)</p>
<p>Marsden (any relation to Roy Marsden?), as one whose D is happy at a Five College Consortioum institution and, as far as I'm concerned, has hit a lifetime jackpot by attending there, I can that being in the Five Colleges doesn't automatically mitigate the lack of men. If at Smith or MHC, you have to work at it...more so at MHC because of the relative isolation; if interested in a relationship formed outside a keg party or some such, you have to work at it even harder. D is both pragmatic and phlegmatic about it but I can't say it's a non-issue, just a compromise worth making (imo and iho).</p>
<p>We also found the visiting to be highly motivating. Seeing these beautiful campuses and attending interesting classes moved the whole discussion from abstract to real. It also made clear to my son that some schools felt more like a fit than others. I suggest visiting as many as you can, but give each one some time. We found that by spending a whole day at each school, we got enough of a sense of each that they didn't get jumbled up in our minds. Take notes, take photos, enjoy!</p>
<p>People have to understand that the five college consortium is nothing whatsoever like the setup at the Claremont Colleges, for example, where there are separate institutions all housed, more or less, on the same campus.</p>
<p>The five colleges, including Smith and MH, are located miles from one another, and while there are shuttle buses, etc., taking advantage of opportunities at one of the other schools is not as easy as one might think. We looked at what sounded like terrific (on paper) opportunities within the five colleges in music, for example, and when we saw things up close and personal, were a bit underwhelmed. </p>
<p>I love the idea of the consortium; I just don't know that it plays out the way it is played up. Other people may have more info, but those were our impressions.</p>
<p>Not unusual for kids to be apathetic and just plain unknowledgeable at this point. If you have other kids or know other kids who are more gung ho, it can be frustrating. Also,kids tend to go towards the familiar. They will bring up colleges that are familiar to them. My boys love to watch and track sports, so it was no surprise that the colleges they know are all the big sports schools. Funny, when Ben Rothelsburger (sp) became a big name, my 13 year old picked up on Miami of Ohio, and when his brother's college was going to play football against them during family day, he was excited about going. Too bad for my junior, that these big colleges are not a good match for him. His teachers, counselors, etc unanimously are thinking LAC, smallish, and I have to agree. In highschools where a lot of the kids apply and go to top schools, those names are bantered a lot, so the kids when they hear this are going to "want" to go to those schools. The same if you are bringing up HPY in conversations at home with a touch of awe in your voice. Local colleges start becoming known as the kids get closer to the date when they need to apply, and those familiar names come to mind. It's the schools that are not well known, that take digging and research to find, that are worth presenting to your kid, because they are not likely to fall into their laps or minds. I know I have a fond feeling for some colleges I have never visited because I know people who have gone there that are just so wonderful and who speak glowingly of their school. Hartwick is one. My youngest has a friend whose parents both graduated from there, and they are people who are what I call a "quiet joy" that bring good feelings anywhere they go. ALso very, very successful; one an attorney, the other owns a nurse employment agency. Also very giving in community and need situations, not only of funds but their time and concern. Grove City, Juniata, Stonehill, College of Charleston, James Madison, St Mary's of MD all are schools that give me a nice feeling for that reason. Unreasonable, in many ways, because I don't know that many folks from those schools, and they have their duds too, but....well, I know you all know what I mean. </p>
<p>Nightingale, because you have some financial concerns, you should look for those schools that can serve as financial safeties in addition to your more "ideal" schools. Yes, your daughter may get into Fairfield, MHC, Clark, etc and get enough money to go there. Her test scores may go up enough to get merit money. But I can tell you that my son whose scores were about where your daughter's is, and who got into some schools that are mentioned in this thread that are about the level of the schools you mentioned, did not get much money. ANd he had some very strong hooks. He also applied to schools that are hurting for males and they desperately wanted him from the private letters and phone calls he got. But money, well, he got token amounts, nothing over $5K which is really a drop in the bucket for a school costing around $40K, and that was the top amount he got. Most awards were under $3k, and he also got big fat goose eggs. Same with my oldest whose stats were even higher and he was a recruited athlete. Only one athletic/merit (don't even remember the combo) offer from one school where he would have been a very top student there stat wise, and was already in the top quarter of the group athletically (his sport is time rated so it is easy to see) It was his safety school. We did not see a dime elsewhere till later in the process when he did get some tiny awards, under $1000, some $100 or $50, from some schools.
Those schools you listed are popular around here too, and I know kids who go to them. The only kid I know from here who got a nice offer from Fairfield had 1500+ SATs and was athletic material college level too. And I know a lot of Fairfield folk-principal of my little one's school and some of his kids, one of my good friends whose son is my youngest son's best friend since nursery school, oldest sons friends, etc. The principal had two kids who were great students; not a dime from Fairfield, they went to Providence with some merit money, he says. So I think you are right on when you said that you need to go a notch down to hit the merit ores, and maybe lower to hit the mother lode of aid, which are the substantial $$$, not the token under $5K when the cost is over $30K.</p>
<p>Wow! If it takes a 1500 SAT to get merit aid from Fairfield then Fairfield is off our list. What I don't understand is the amount of folks from working class backgrounds who went there. Apparently apps. are way up, which I assume means, merit is hard to come by. So be it. I'm beginning to think merit aid in N.E. colleges is, or will soon be, a thing of the past as the progeny of us baby-boomers flood the market. I imagine even with salaries breaking into the six the figure catagory 45K is probably an impossible not to crack ...for most. cptofthehouse and others make some great points. If your from the Northeast and want to attend a N.E. college-sorry no geographic hook. If you're a female attempting to obtain merit from an N.E. LAC already heavily laden with females, (which many of the smaller N.E. LAC's are)- sorry no gender hook. So it seems unless your a URM, a helmeted athlete with 1200 SAT's, a val., a sal., a class pres., all with 1450 SAT's or higher the picture in the Northeastern college corridor is looking very bleak. Time to look hard at the publics... DAMN!</p>
<p>Nightingale, do not let an anecdote or anecdotes to take a school of your list, please. Though my statement was true, it is very isolated. Just be aware that schools that have them lined up at the door to get in full pay, with most of them paper clones of each other, the chances of any of them getting merit money are not good. With geographics on your side, it does make a little difference. IF the school is heavily seeking males, like Providence, I know is, then the female has a tougher time. You've got to ask yourself, why a school would want your daughter and pay for her. What distinguishes her from all the other applicants. If you know a bunch of kids in your area are always applying to a particular school, there is no incentive to widen that market, and many other markets to invite. When your daughter starts putting together her list, she should have finances as an issue when puttting the schools into reach, match, safety categories, and there can be schools in each category. But when finances are involved a school that is a match or even a safety for getting in, may be a reach for getting money, and vice versa.</p>
<p>Opps- Didn't mean to sound high handed as regards public education. Unfortunately in my state much of the funds that might have gone for the state system have gone to fund the world's most expensive public works project, the Big Dig. Meanwhile concrete slabs are still falling on people's heads. Also, we're still paying the million dollar salary of our former State U Chancellor who took the 5th in Federal Court. What a mess...should have moved to Conn. or Virginia.</p>
<p>i know springfield college is generous with merit aid, as is the university of hartford</p>
<p>AllMusic, the consortium at the Five Colleges is like the issue of men...it works but you have to work at it. Specifically, adding the transport time at both ends of a class at another college means some deft scheduling may be required on your home campus. In her first two years, D did not take a Five College class at another campus...just one data point. Some students do it all the time...another data point.</p>
<p>I 'm an MHC alum so not purely objective on this topic, but if excellent academics is a top priority, it would be worth some financial sacrifice to go there. Women's colleges don't suit all women but do offer advantages even for those who at first are put off by the idea--strong community and "sisterhood" and the chance to separate intense work from socializing if you prefer to compartmentalize. The isolation and lack of males can also be offset by a Junior Year Abroad in the wider coed world--that's what I did and it was great but I also look back with much appreciation of my years in South Hadley.</p>
<p>P.S. My D chose a coed school in preference to MHC and this seems to have been the right choice for her --she values the ease and availability of casual male acquaintances as part of her everyday life as well as the girls' solidarity of her non-coed dorm floor.</p>
<p>"We looked at what sounded like terrific (on paper) opportunities within the five colleges in music, for example, and when we saw things up close and personal, were a bit underwhelmed.'"</p>
<p>Our experience has been precisely the opposite. Our d. is a joint music composition and Italian Studies major. She is also a STRIDE research scholar - a paid research assistant. Her job - as a first and second year student, was putting together, from original sources, a singable/playable score of the first opera ever written by a woman. Her supervisor was the founder of the Folger Consort, a 5-College Professor, with offices at Mt. Holyoke, and who also teaches electronic music at UMass. The opera was actually performed, with more than 4,000 people attending 3 performances, with singers and players from all 5 Colleges - and a director from Vassar. Her score and supporting historical essays are likely to be published in book form next year. No one of the colleges could have supported the Early Music program - it is a joint 5-College program. The professor is currently in Sienna, Italy, with students from all of the 5-colleges, doing a January Term program in Medieval and Renaissance Music.</p>
<p>My d. is also part of an early music singing group - all women, which has met at both Mt. Holyoke and Smith. There is also a co-ed one, which meets at UMass. She is also part of a Baroque instrument ensemble, supervised by the Five College professor, that meets at Smith, with students from each of the colleges.</p>
<p>There have also been graduate student composition colloquia that met at UMass and Smith, bringing in composers from around the world, and musicology colloquia that met at UMass and Amherst. And when they put together a huge orchestra for a grand performance of the Verdi Requiem, the members came from all five colleges, as well as local professional musicians. There is also a local semi-professional opera company in Northampton, with particpation of students from all 5 colleges. </p>
<p>This is all IN ADDITION to the course opportunities. Amherst has a very famous ethnomusicology professor. But because they couldn't rustle up enough students at Amherst to take his course, they held it at Smith. </p>
<p>It turned out to be far, far richer than we could have ever imagined (because we were so focused on courses), with much, much more than we saw at the Claremont Colleges.</p>
<p>Mini, I can't speak to either composition or choral music. I am strictly speaking from a performance point of view, and that was looking at all five as a group. </p>
<p>UMass offers the most comprehensive BM program, and it was really not what one would expect from a university of 20K+ students, either in facilities, faculty, etc. While my son was curious to hear how the interplay/cooperative nature of having five colleges would enhance his experience (we looked at Amherst too), he was told that rather than other students leaving UMass for musical opportunities elsewhere in the five college system, it was the other way around. So, if UMass is the pinnacle for the music performance opportunities at the five colleges, we were suitably unimpressed.</p>
<p>A shame really, considering that this is our "flagship" university, and my son would qualify for nearly a full scholarship, if not a full, having nothing at all to do with music, but the silly state tests.</p>
<p>Again, I have no idea what other students have experienced outside of performance.</p>
<p>Well, the performance opportunities I referenced included: Early music; baroque ensemble; large scale symphonic ensemble; and opera, both collegiate and semi-professional. (there's also a marching band, but I didn't include).</p>
<p>It is true that, within the 5-college context, Amherst is by far the weakest.</p>
<p>Nightengale, </p>
<p>I don't know if you got my PM but I gave you a little info on my Ds experience. Her awards were in the 8000 to 11000 range, although as I said the schools were definitely not as highly regarded...but still good schools. A few were more in 3000 to 5000 range. You do not need a 1500 to get merit at Fairfield....I know numerous kids who were well under that and got merit money from Fairfield - all females. Don't get discouraged, I think class rank plays a part too. Since she is top 10% in her class, her chances may be better than you think. Another important thing to know - In order to be considered for merit money at Fairfield you must submit you application by December 1st, even if you're not applying EA. Just a heads up for next year, as many schools have an earlier deadline for application submission if you want to be considered for merit money!!!</p>
<p>One thing my husband and I got out of our search experience was a lot of what you get out of college will be what your student puts into it. Merit money will be out there even if she has to go a notch down in school.</p>
<p>Allmusic, if your son is interested in performance, you have to take a whole different tack on the college search. Statistics and opportunites for the schools as a whole do not apply to someone who is going into serious music performance as a conservatory type program is necessary for such students and not all schools provide that. When my son wanted to go into the performing arts, we were looking at schools I'd never heard of and were not high on lists for academics or other things, but were up there in his particular department. Some kids have it down to who the specific instructors are in the department for their instrument when it comes to instruments.<br>
By the way, one of the most wonderful conductors I have ever seen for a remarkable youth orchestra was an Amherst conductor.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, I don't know where you get your information about Providence College, but is significantly misleading. Merit awards at Providence College are split almost exactly along the gender split of the institution (57% female/43% male). Merit awards are not "tilted" to award males with weaker credentials than women.</p>
<p>I posted the following to another thread where cptofthehouse also spoke incorrectly about merit at Providence. Please be careful to know your facts when writing about other institutions.</p>
<p>Providence does not have "specialty" targets for merit. The merit scholarships at Providence College are tied to the Liberal Arts Honors program (three levels - 15K, 21K, Full tuition). About the top 13% of students admitted to PC are selected for the scholarships and program inclusion. It is highly selective, but does not give any preferences to "special populations" - it is academic merit.</p>
<p>Having said that, it is important to note that the vast majority of PC's financial resources are tied to need-based programs.</p>
<p>From the Providence College website:</p>
<p>"Merit scholarships are awarded to those students who are invited into Providence College's highly selective Liberal Arts Honors Program upon admission into the college. Scholarships are awarded on three levels: St. Dominic Scholarships (full tuition awards excluding room and board), St. Thomas Aquinas Scholarships ($21,000 per year), and St. Catherine of Siena Scholarships ($15,000 per year). All of these scholarships are renewable for up to four years as long as students remain active members of the Liberal Arts Honors Program and maintain the required G.P.A. Merit scholars are typically at the top of their graduating class and have completed the most rigorous program of study possible during their high school career.</p>
<p>While the admission process is very holistic, the scholarship review is specifically focused on a student's academic credentials. Students who receive a merit scholarship will be notified by mail shortly after the admission decision."</p>
<p>Pyewacket, I'm in agreement about the women's colleges being worth a financial sacrifice. It's a position I would have been dubious of entertaining four years ago but time & experience changes things. D's experiences with guys during her junior "away" year have led me to conclude that the guys are lucky she doesn't attend a co-ed school...her personality evaluations are devastating, e.g., "...he's funny and smart but <em>so</em> unfocused and irresponsible."</p>
<p>There is merit $ out there for kids with stats similar to your child. </p>
<pre><code>I know of a student now at Clark U. with stats similar to your child who received 16/k scholarship annually, renewable x 4 years.
</code></pre>
<p>Clark University: Achievement Award (from Clark Website)
This is a $40,000 four-year scholarship. Year-to-year continuation ($10,000 per year) average GPA is 3.70; average SAT is 1284 (CR+M)/29 ACT).
<a href="http://www.clarku.edu/admissions/financialaid/prospective/scholarships.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://www.clarku.edu/admissions/financialaid/prospective/scholarships.cfm</a></p>
<p>St. Michael's College - Colchester, Vermont
Dean Scholarships - up to 50k over 4 years to students with 1800 SAT and
B+ average.</p>