<p>basically public and private schools are hard to compare. I would argue that UF is a better school than FSU. This isnt exactly a scientific statement as you can see, just my own personal opinion based on a variety of issues. I would say next that Miami is the top private in the state with Rollins and Stetson close behind (albeit with quite different atmospheres, resources). FSU is generally known as the school that accepts everyone, and because of this fact, alot of people have a negative perspective on the school. Of course, selectivity is not everything. Also, Im not sure how important PhD program rankings are at large state schools - the difference between rank 40 and rank 65 is negligible...the "quality" of these programs will be hardpressed to trickle down to the undergrad level for 30+ thousand students.</p>
<p>I think if you're going to compare very large state universities you need to compare like program to like program. </p>
<p>If Ph.D programs have little influence on undergraduate program quality why should a large medical school research budget mean that freshman English at a particular school is great? Likewise engineering - if one school has an excellent engineering program, does that mean that the Department of Economics is equally stellar? </p>
<p>Would you argue that UF has a better meteorology program than Florida State?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Would you argue that UF has a better meteorology program than Florida State?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Pretty comparable.</p>
<p>Sorry - trick question. UF does not offer meteorology and Florida State's is famous. Likewise, FSU does not offer building construction degrees.</p>
<p>This illustrates why glossing over large state universities is a bit careless.</p>
<p>Yeah, I do know that meteorology at FSU is pretty much the best.</p>
<p>My mistake (however, meteorology research is done although no degree is offered). </p>
<p>I still think it's better to go to the better overall school. It's nice to say that you want to study meteorology, but what if you realize you actually don't want to (for whatever reason). Then it's nice to have many strong programs to fall back on. In this regard, UF is better since it offers more ranked programs than FSU.</p>
<p>The popularity and reputation of UF have been enhanced through the years because it was relatively inexpensive compared to UM. The School of Medicine, Music and Marine Biology programs at the University of Miami are more internationally recognized for their quality than any of the other Florida schools and are among the best in the nation. The Opthalmology Residency Program at UM is number ONE in the nation, ranking above Harvard. ( UF does not have a single program, or school that is considered number ONE )</p>
<p>Until last year, UF would throw money around like crazy to recruit National Merits ( having the second largest number in the US of National Merits, after Harvard..) in order to improve their rankings. That 'bribing" of top students recently stopped.</p>
<p>The reality is that in Florida, UM has better "prestige" among the elite than UF. The same applies for employers. </p>
<p>Anyone who can afford UM would choose UM over UF. That is also a very well known fact. So...which one is more attractive for students then? </p>
<p>I have never met ANYONE who has gone, goes or plans to go to UF over UM who does not have an issue with the fact that, sadly, they can not afford the University of Miami.</p>
<p>Another aspect is that "FSU accepts everybody". Really? The top 25% of FSU's recent freshman class is very comparable (or better, even) in size and academic quality to the entire freshman class at the University of Miami with an average SAT of 1332 and GPA of 3.97. The entire freshman class had an average SAT of 1206, which while not Emory-level, ain't peanuts.</p>
<p>So sure, FSU accepts everybody - except the thousands who don't get in.</p>
<p>parent2noles, I just read your post and you are very misinformed about the medical schools in question.</p>
<p>UM is by far the best medical school in the state. Some of UM's residency programs are top ranked and comparable only to Harvard and Hopkins. The clinical expertise to be gained at UM is just awesome. You are talking about being able to work with patients form one of the most diverse ethnic communities in the country with plenty of exotic and once in a life time "seen" medical cases. Miami metro has population of millions, being also a major referral center for the caribbean and south america. UF medical students lack miserably in clinical experience which they can only get from a small, rural, college town in central florida.</p>
<p>Come on...</p>
<p>"The reality is that in Florida, UM has better "prestige" among the elite than UF. The same applies for employers."</p>
<p>I disagree.</p>
<p>"Anyone who can afford UM would choose UM over UF. That is also a very well known fact. So...which one is more attractive for students then?"</p>
<p>Disagree again. I can afford UM more than once over, but I wouldnt even consider it over UF. I absolutely HATED UM when I visited.</p>
<p>I have never met ANYONE who has gone, goes or plans to go to UF over UM who does not have an issue with the fact that, sadly, they can not afford the University of Miami.</p>
<p>I've seen it numerous times and I cant say I blame any of them.</p>
<ul>
<li>First of all Parent2Noles the fact that "The top 25% of FSU's recent freshman class is very comparable (or better, even) in size and academic quality to the entire freshman class at the University of Miami " proves little for FSU. UM's average is similar to 25% of FSU's class. Likewise if we grab the top 25% of UM, it would totally outblow both FSU's top 25% and whole averages which are extremely low.
Also since when has FSU been considered hard to get in. look at their average stats. their average SAT score is in the 1100 range and their average gpa is around a 3.6.
lets not forget to mention that they consitently admit over half the students that apply. </li>
</ul>
<p>Lobos: I know lots of ppl who have chosen UM over UF. Moviebluff;s statement is not a myth. However I also know others who have picked UF over UM because its cheaper. academically I see it way more beneficial to attend UM undergrad than UF. UM has smaller classes (more personalized education) and ranked almost the same as UF. </p>
<ul>
<li><p>Medical School: I would agree that UM's medical school is the best in Florida. Its got several programs that rival those at Hopkins and Harvard. Also its location is way better for a medical school as its a big city that recieves local, national and international attention in their hospitals. </p></li>
<li><p>For grad school though, aside from Medical school and a few other schools, UF has better grad programs.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>"I know lots of ppl who have chosen UM over UF"</p>
<p>Of course. I would assume that happens too.</p>
<p>Movie Buff, you are really incorrect in many of your assertions.</p>
<p>UM definitely does not have better prestige than UF, not in Florida, and especially not outside of FL. And many people, who CAN afford UM, and who have gotten at least half to full scholarships there, end up choosing UF instead.</p>
<p>UF has better facilities, stronger programs in a much wider variety, and a strong alumni network. UF is also generally ranked higher. The three depts you mentioned (music, marine biology, and medicine) are the only ones that can be considered at the same level or higher than UFs. </p>
<p>We are discussing undergraduate education. Yes, UM has a great medical school, but what good is that to undergraduate students who are not interested in the medical field? Very little.</p>
<p>The top 25% of FSU's freshman class establishes that you could take the entire UM freshman class and it fit it into Florida State and unit per unit would be no better. That's significant.</p>
<p>It also means that FSU attracts the same quality of kids a UMiami does plus a whole lot more. UF does this as well.</p>
<p>If you took the top 25% kids from UMiami and compared them to the top same number of kids from FSU, I doubt you'd see much if any qualitative difference.</p>
<p>You'd probably have a difference with the same number from HYPS, or a Cal Tech or Berkeley, for example, but not UMiami.</p>
<p>With regard to residency programs, Miami Med may have indeed have the upper hand over UF Med for the reasons you cite. Note that I also said the academic advantage UF has may mean little at that level.</p>
<p>What will be interesting is to see how FSU Med matures with its distributed med campuses and a lot of diverse real-world practice. I do know that in the last residency match a lot of FSU med students received some coveted slots.</p>
<p>First off, UM most CERTAINLY has more of a reputation outside of florida than ANY school in florida. Three schools pop into people's head. UF is correlated with football. FSU for partying. And Miami for being the Smart Party school of the south. These are just the generalizations in people's minds. I've talked to people in Europe who know about UMiami's programs, and people in cali who suggest I go there over other schools, never once has that occured to me for UF. UF is a great state school, but to pay the OOS tuition to go there is pointless, it is truly a school for Floridians.</p>
<p>As for FSU being ranked higher for UM...what? Yes certain grad programs are better, but as a whole UM is a more complete school IMO. What you are saying parents2noles doesn't really make sense. If you are to take your type 25% to compare, why not take OUR top 25% and compare them? Secondly, our endowment has SURPASSED FSU even though FSU gets MORE state funding AND is older than UM.</p>
<p>Third, are you trying to say because FSU is such a big school it's better? Obviously a state school is going to attract more people, but it's interestingly enough that all rankings, and most reports tend to disagree with your thinking.</p>
<p>I'm not sure why people are tying to really say UM isn't at least number 2 in the state, because from most people's standpoint, it's Number 1. The rankings and facts state otherwise (in favor for UF), but general public consensus is that UM > UF, and I've even been told this by an FSU grad.</p>
<p>So it's your opinion that UM > UF although the rankings and facts state otherwise? LOL.</p>
<p>Umm no, I don't know how you got that from that sentence. What i meant was that there should be no arguments that Umiami is the number 2 school in florida, though general public perception is that it is more prestigious, selective and academically focused than the other two schools. This is consensus OUTSIDE of florida, maybe IN florida you guys have a much higher opinion of UF, but from outside Umiami is most certainly perceived as the number one school.</p>
<p>I could honestly care less man, this is a silly discussion.</p>
<p>However, I don't know where you are getting your statements from (perhaps from the UM administration). The peer assessment and selectivity ratings of UF and UM are very similar, with an edge to UF I believe. Also look at many of the USNWR program rankings and UF tops UM in most cases (just one example: engineering).</p>
<p>EDIT: And I agree, there should be no arguments that UM is the number 2 school in Florida.</p>
<p>its pretty hard to back a claim that UM is better than UF. I feel that both schools are very similar. they have similar peer assessments, similar selectivit ratings, similar overall rankings and research funding at both schools has skyrocketed in the past few years. I see a promising future in the years to come for both schools. UF being the flag ship school recieving the most government funding and increasing the rankings while UM gaining a higher recognition nationally and internationally, recieving large donations from alumni (Project Momentum has done wonders with endowments) and finally has been increasing the rankings every year.
Currently though, despite many similarities in both schools I do feel UF has the slight edge. it is ranked higher to begin with and although UM can boast several programs in the TOP 1, UF can boast many programs (particularly in grad school) that are in the top 15 or better. </p>
<p>as to FSU and UM. I consider it rediculous to compare. one school is extremely close to becoming a 3rd tier school (another academic slip and it will reach 3rd tier) while another is about to crack the solid top 50 and mayby even better. UM is more selective, has higher endowment, has more programs in the top 1, and finally is ranked waaay better.</p>