RCM vs RAM

<p>In the U.S. the top music schools are considered to be Julliard, Curtis, Eastman, New England Conservatory, etc. Most think Julliard is #1 (even though I strongly disagree with that opinion). In the UK The Royal College of Music and The Royal Academy of Music are the two best music school in London, and most say they outrank Julliard and Curtis (And all US schools), and some even say they are the best schools for music in the world.</p>

<p>I am working on preparing my audition list for music schools and I want to include one school from the UK. (only 1). I have a lot of time to think but I wanted to hear peoples opinion. I know people are gonna give me the whole "you need to visit and see for yourself" speech, but I just want to know based on prestige and opinion, which is the better music school. RCM or RAM?</p>

<p>I think you could do yourself a big favor and read some of the threads that are on this board, do a search, about music schools and rankings and ‘which is the best’ and so forth. From the tone of your post it seems like you are operating under a misconception, one that more then a few music students make, and that it is that arbitrary ratings like this conservatory is the ‘best in the world’, ‘that conservatory is the best in the world’, and if you go to whatever people around seem to be saying is the best, that is your ticket to musical fame and fortune, and it doesn’t work like that, not by a long shot. If, for example, that were true, then the world’s orchestras would be full almost exclusively with RAM and RCM members (to use your view), almost all the great soloists would be from there, and of course that isn’t true (not knocking RAM or RCM, they are both topnotch music schools, and they have high level players all over music) and chamber music would be totally dominated by RCM graduates…which of course is not true. </p>

<p>The reality is that the strength of a school is how well they can train a student, and that has a ton of factors involved. That is the prime reason when you see people saying check out the school, do sample lessons with teachers, go to performances, to get an idea of what it is like there. Why? Because you may do very well at let’s say the RCM, because you find it works for you, and do horribly at Juilliard because the teachers you potentially would be working with don’t fit your needs. A school might have a ton of superstar performers as teachers, but many of them might not be particularly good teachers. </p>

<p>Reputations are important because they give one picture, but that is only a snapshot, it isn’t reflective other then the school has a decent reputation. Some music schools with a great reputation, in some departments, might be horrible with undergrad training in another, because they don’t give UG’s a chance to perform much. A program can be great in X areas, and be not so hot in Y…and so forth. The RCM or RAM on your instrument or area may be great, or they could be mediocre, which is why finding a fit is important.</p>

<p>Reputation does, I will admit, matter in one area, the caliber of students. Places like Juilliard and Curtiss have a reputation, as do other of the ‘great’ conservatories, and it allows them to draw from a huge pool of applicants and take the creme de la creme (Juilliard, for example, accepts about 7% of its applicant pool), and that can translate into an environment that pushes a student, at least a student where that kind of thing motivates them. If you are the type of person who thrives on competition, who thrives by watching others excel and want to catch up to them or beat them, that kind of environment is a plus, whereas a more self driven student might be fine if everyone isn’t the next Heifetz…</p>

<p>More importantly, where you went to conservatory ends when you get out the door. Leaving out things like networking to get gigs, a working musicians life a lot of the time, once out there it is about what kind of musician you are, if a soloist if you can connect with audiences, if an orchestral musician or a chamber musician can you pass an audition and be a fit to the culture of the orchestra. Unlike, for example, some jobs where if you don’t go to an Ivy, they won’t look at you, with music where you went to conservatory doesn’t get you jobs, orchestras when auditioning don’t get a pile of resumes, and say “I’ll see the Curtis People and Juilliard people”, they screen/prescreen without knowing that, and auditions are blind, for the very reason they don’t want that kind of thing to go on. The personnel manager of the NY Phil doesn’t call up Joseph Pelosi (the head of Juilliard) and say “Joe, I need a violinist, who you got coming out i should see or what kid should I hire”, it doesn’t work like that. More then a few music students believe that, I have heard some howlers from admissions people with the stuff they hear, but it isn’t true.</p>

<p>If you think the RCM or the RAM will work for you, that is great, but if you are looking at them only because of what you believe people think about them, I recommend heartily investigating schools, the department you would be in, look at what graduates are doing and so forth, before making that decision. I would be really surprised if any of the experienced people would tell you which is the better school in terms of opinion or reputation like that. They might, if you say what instrument or area you are in, tell you about the faculty in the area, but other then that, I doubt it.</p>

<p>Well said.</p>

<p>You obviously didn’t read my comments in the question. I already said I know that going to the school and getting lessons would be the best thing. I am just merely asking which is better viewed in the music world. Is that a hard question to answer?</p>

<p>Insiders in the music world will tell you the same thing that musicprnt said. The name on the building doesn’t matter. What matters is what the teacher and the student bring to the task at hand. So, yes, that is a very hard question to answer.</p>

<p>Well said musicprnt.</p>

<p>But if you’re after personal opinion rankings, I would put the Paris Conservatoire and the Moscow Conservatory ahead of both British schools. And why limit yourself to just one? That seems strange - if you’re going all the way there to audition, have some lessons, check out both places, and then see how you feel.</p>

<p>Why are you being so rude to the parents who took time to answer your question, limcba21?
And why are you so negative (“strongly disagree”) about Juilliard? My daughter is a freshman there and after a semester and a half I am more sure than ever that it is a truly fantastic school in many ways and offers its students a breadth of experiences that are not to be found anywhere else… but to get to the main point of your question: why are you set on auditioning to “only 1” British school? There are regional auditions in the US; you can audition for both. If you’re not interested in our opinions, then go elsewhere.</p>

<p>Not being rude, or negative. Just stating my opinion on the school, and musicprnt was just a little agressive and was answering my question with an answer I didn’t ask for…</p>

<p>First of all, including only one UK school when you’re so clearly biased in their favor strikes me as a little arbitrary.</p>

<p>But since you’re asking, and you’ve already gotten words of greater wisdom than these from others, I’ll try and answer you. RAM has been world-class for longer. As such, its reputation is more established. However, RCM currently enjoys a notably stronger reputation in the area of string training. If you play a stringed instrument, you will likely find a better teacher at RCM than at RAM. The prestige of being a string-playing alum from RCM is thus currently higher than a parallel qualification from RAM.
There are other areas of differentiation: RAM is stronger in historical performance, winds, and possibly opera, for instance.</p>

<p>Where you’re getting this notion that RAM and RCM are generally held to be better schools than any others in the world I can’t imagine, but probably not from actual conversation with musicians …</p>

<p>“Where you’re getting this notion that RAM and RCM are generally held to be better schools than any others in the world I can’t imagine”</p>

<p>Well since you disagree, what would you consider the top school in the world to be for voice?</p>

<p>Limcba21 is a 9th grader. Let’s give him or her a break as s/he grows up and discovers more about life, music, and posting on cc. :)</p>

<p>My D is currently studying voice/music education at “the top school in the world for voice”–for her. Couldn’t be happier, improving every day.</p>

<p>If he or she is a 9th grader, now is the time for him or her to learn how to behave in public (and CC is a public forum.) I know musicprnt doesn’t need me to rush to his defense, but calling him “aggressive” after his generous post makes my coffee taste bad.</p>

<p>^^^Yes. I agree 100%. And it is very kind of glassharmonica to post the above as it may help the OP learn how to behave in public!</p>

<p>Im not asking for a personal critique of me… just an answer to my question?</p>

<p>Dear limcba21,</p>

<p>Musicprnt gave you an incredibly generous, accurate, and wholly helpful response; within which not a single line contains any hint of exaggeration or impertinence. You would be well served to take what musicprnt has written to heart, for it is a very clear description of how it works in that very music world of which you are trying to enter.</p>

<p>You want an answer to your question. I can’t see how clearly or better an answer can or could have been formulated. You seem very determined to seek out objectively an ranking of which school is better, RCM vs RAM, or Juilliard vs Curtis, etc etc etc. If such definitive answer does indeed exist, don’t you think you would’ve already found it by now?</p>

<p>Oh and PS - I am actually a graduate of two of the very schools that you have mentioned. In the name of anonymity, I won’t say which ones. But both schools are places teenagers novel to the romantic illusion of music conservatories consider frequently “the best of…” blah blah.</p>

<p>I, along with about 95% of my classmates are currently out of music. It’s just the nature of the business. For most of us, that exiting the profession happened within two or three years of graduation. Alarming but true. My alma mater’s graduation class had about 100-150 students, and currently I can think of no more than 3, who currently are full time employed by a music performance company (symphony orchestra, opera house, etc).</p>

<p>And finally, while I consider myself quite a good musician, I know of many peers who perhaps went to state colleges, big university music programs, etc, that can blow many right out the water.</p>

<p>I apologize if you felt I was attacking you, I wasn’t, I was trying to point out that your question is basically unanswerable, that for instrumental or vocal music there is no such thing as ‘the best music school in the world’, it doesn’t exist. You aren’t going to get an answer to your question from anyone who knows about the music world, you might get some who believe their opinion is the truth and tell you ‘you should go to X’, but that is just an opinion, one that cannot be backed up because there is no concrete way to evaluate it. More importantly, the people who tell you something like “X is the best music school in the world” probably are not in music themselves, have not been out there, they are going on what their perceptions are. The reason I suggested reading threads on here is because these kinds of things come up all the time, and people have written about their experiences and so forth and it can give you perspective on what you asked. Basically, objective ranking systems don’t exist, can’t, because what is best in the world depends on the student, pure and simple, which others have said, Sopranomom’s post says words about it, that it was the best place for her daughter. </p>

<p>There are top Opera stars who didn’t go to top level conservatories, Renee Fleming as an UG went to a SUNY school then went to Juilliard grad, Susan Graham went to Texas tech then went to MSM, and other singers have had similar paths. The answer many on you will tell you is that it is about fit, about the teacher you work with and your ability to learn and work at it, rather then a specific school. Like I said, if getting into RCM or RAM based on their reputation (assuming, in fact, it was commonly seen as the ‘best iin the world’) did something career wise, then they would dominate music, and no music school does that, RCM or Juilliard or Hochskool or whatever. </p>

<p>Put it this way, if you notice, no one told you “RCM and RAM are a joke, Juilliard is better” or “No, Curtis is better” or whatever, they are telling your your question is not valid in the world of music education, and they are trying to help, as I was. If you have your heart set on RCM or RAM, then ask questions about those programs, you will get a lot better answers. Asking a question like “How does RCM compare against RCM in vocal music” will get you a lot more answers then asking “which is more prestigious” or “the best in the world”, which have no real answer.</p>

<p>limcba,</p>

<p>The problem is that the answer you seek changes from year to year, from instrument to instrument and from student to student. We cannot possibly know enough about you to provide that answer and, even if we could, it would still be in your best interest to let you find your own way. We can tell you how to go about the search and point out possibilities that we think you should consider. We cannot state categorically that A will be better than B for you at the time you will be seeking admission.</p>

<p>Newc-</p>

<p>Nicely put, and thanks for realizing what I was writing. I have heard stories from working musicians and one of the things they talk about is kids who think because they have come out of a top program that the world is going to throw themselves at their feet, and they find out pretty quickly how tough it is out there, as you and any other graduate found out.</p>

<p>Musicprnt,
Thanks for the last response. I should have been more clear with my rsearch intensions. If you wouldn’t mind I did start a new thread for the comparison of voice programs. If you know any info. plz post.</p>