<p>I need some historical insight on something that I was not sensitized to when it occurred. When the SAT was recententered a few years ago--Why was it done? How was it done? --and-- What was the effect on pre- vs. post recentered scores?</p>
<p>It means that we parents are smarter than we thought we were!</p>
<p>^^^ If we can remember our SAT scores ;).</p>
<p>It seems to mean we were smarter verbally--do you think that's true?</p>
<p>no, IMO, it's more non-native speakers taking the test, particularly in 'SAT-states' like Calif.</p>
<p>I disagree, bluebayou. Of course added non-natives drag the scores down a bit, but that's not the only issue. I think you have to consider as factors 1) the sheer amount of reading that was required in the average HS college prep english course and 2) the fact that more "classics" were read, which have a more extensive vocabulary than contemporary fiction and 3) the existence of formal grammar classes, which as far as I can determine not only don't exist any more but that half the English teachers today would fail themselves, and 4) the magnificent flops of "sight-reading," and not teaching spelling, and 5) the trend these days of not requiring good vocabulary, grammar, spelling and punctuation in history/science/social studies/arts/WHATEVER just because it's not English class.</p>
<p>No pyewacket, we weren't smarter, we were just better educated, and had more demanded of us.</p>
<p>It is sooooo sad.</p>
<p>The downward Verbal trend has been ongoing for years, before and after whole language, phonics, back-to-basics and other english teaching ideas. Indeed, the CB has recentered the SAT before.</p>
<p>With regard to reading literature, I guess it depends on where you went to school. My kids are reading a LOT more than I ever did in a CP curriculum at a supposedly "good" HS -- we had more shop classes than college prep - but a very nice 'Literature of Comics', which was popular with the jocks since it was also UC-approved; AP's were non-existant in our city of 75,000.</p>
<p>The college app demographics have changed: in the '60's, ~25% of kids went to college. Now, it's more than two-three times that amount. As a result, in Calif we have a whole group of kids who are now taking the SAT to go to college (such as Cal State) when 40 years ago that cohort of students would have skipped the SAT and gone straight to the workforce.</p>
<p>At least now I understand the recentering--thanks.</p>
<p>By the way, I took the SAT's twice in the 1960's without studying for them.. the second time, my math score went up by around 100 points while my verbal score went down by about 100 points--go figure.</p>
<p>Re: decline in verbal skills --- I grew up in a major metropolitan area. We not only had the three networks on TV, but also PBS, and - gasp - an independent station. Cable hadn't been invented. (Heck - UHF hadn't been invented!) Needless to say, if I had a hunger for fiction, especially during "rerun season" - I had to read. Nowadays, there's always non-printed entertainment available, 24/7, of near-infinite variety. You don't learn high level verbal skills in class - you learn them sitting alone with a book, over and over. I'd be surprised if reading skills hadn't declined sine the 60's.</p>
<p>Random thoughts...</p>
<p>but some of the "decline" is not just non-native speakers, but is due to the fact that a broader group of high schoolers are taking the SAT. More students are going to college, which means that a whole other group of kids are being averaged in there - those at the bottom (economically, intellectually, or in terms of ambition). So the mean will go down, not because the top people in the 2000s don't correllate to the top people in the 1960s, but because there is a whole other group these days that weren't there before.</p>
<p>I do think that there is a lot less reading going on than there can be - again, though, are we talking about top students in the 1960s and top students now, or are we talking top 60s students and all students now?</p>
<p>Finally... I dated a guy who took the SAT before recentering. He never ceased to remind me that my 800 was after recentering and therefore "not legitimate," nevermind the fact that, even adjusting to his scale, I kicked his butt. </p>
<p>So look at the numbers before y'all get too cocky.... ;)</p>
<p>I agree that the main reason scores went down is that it used to be only middle and upper middle class kids went to college. They all grew up in families where English is properly spoken, etc. Now, many kids apply that wouldn't have before, which brings scores down, but is really good for the country and for integrating social classes.
The bad news is that so many kids have scores over 700 in each SAT area that it doesn't mean that much anymore. EWhen I was in school there were only a few kids in my grade with scores over 700. In my daughter's class, it's about a third of the class. Yes, they study for SATs now, which helps, but the recentering has moved all the 600 kids up.</p>
<p>Are the SAT IIs also "recentered"?</p>
<p>I don't think we had SAT IIs back then.</p>
<p>Mom of WC, </p>
<p>Yes, we did! They were called "AchievementTests" administered by the College Board.</p>
<p>Recentering caused a big ego boost to a lot of kids and their parents as well, and may also have fueled the growing ambition to apply to more selective colleges. "Hey, Joey is smarter than I thought, he should apply to Yale!"</p>
<p>I do remember my SAT scores (and now think I'm at least as smart as my kids -- well in some things). No, there was no recentering of SAT II's to my knowledge.</p>
<p>Pyewacket is right. We took SATs and Achievement Tests - all on the same day. Everyone I knew took the SAT in the AM and three Achievement Tests in the PM. Our exam packet came with a few sample questions, which was all the prep we had. We showed up at the exams empty-handed, since special pencils were provided, pocket calculators hadn't yet been invented, and slide rules were prohibited.</p>
<p>Are you sure I took these Achievement Tests? I graduated from HS in 1970. Did we get to pick our subjects? Do you think I am getting totally senile?</p>
<p>EllenF, your recollection fits mine. Also, no prep courses or (as far as I recall) prep books were available for these tests.</p>
<p>We definitely got to choose which Achievement Tests we took. I can't quite remember which ones I took, other than Spanish. Pretty sure I took "advanced math" as well as the English/writing. This was in the 1960's.</p>
<p>Also the scoring was different. Scores didn't just round to nearest 10 points. You could get a 711 on SAT Math, for example.</p>
<p>mwc:</p>
<p>depends on the college you went to...for example, the UC's required three Achievement Tests, but the Cal States required zero.</p>