Re: Voice Teachers--what to look for?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I just signed up my daughters (16 and 12) to try lessons with a new voice teacher--based on recommendation from another parent. Both D's have both had a few lessons a couple of years ago with another teacher, but it didn't really seem to get them anywhere, though it was fun. The 16 year old says she wants to get serious now about studying classical voice. The 12 year old is not ready for ongoing lessons but could use help now and then for auditions, and has been told to work on richer tone in middle voice by her choir director (a couple of time in the evaluations).</p>

<p>So, what are the hallmarks of a good teacher? What should I be looking for in the first few lessons to gauge whether or not D (older D in particular, I guess) is on the right track with the new teacher? I have limited experience in this area so looking to you guys for your input.</p>

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<p>In my opinion the first and most important thing is to fine someone who understands what healthy singing is. This is particulary true for your younger one. Many traditionalist do not think it is a good idea to start voice lessons at that age, but I think the answer is to make sure the teacher teaches posture, breathing, etc. </p>

<p>Anyone can call herself/himself a voice teacher. Early on my daughter took some group singing lessons with someone who my very musically-included husband was stunned to see how lacking she was in music skills. She really didn't have a good ear, etc. She really wasn't teaching skills. </p>

<p>Later, when my daughter was still a pre-teen/young teen she went to a real singing teacher for occasional lessons, not weekly. Here the emphasis was on
healthy singing. Only when she was almost 15 did she begin regular lessons. I'm not saying that one has to wait that long, but the key is to have someone who teaches correctly for the age. </p>

<p>How to find the right person? Look for recommendations from people whose opinions you value. Talk to music teachers. </p>

<p>By the way, it is great if you find a teacher who is a good to very good accompanist. That way you are not paying more for that. My daughter's teacher plays the piano and sight reads very well. (At Interlochen at at Carnegie Mellon summer programs, we had to pay more for someone to play the piano.)</p>

<p>Another thing is to select a teacher that has the emphasis you want. At one point my daughter took a trial lesson with someone who had more of an opera and classical emphasis. My daughter wanted someone who was MT with a bit of classical.</p>

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<p>I have to disagree about one point from nytheatermom: if your voice teacher is excellent pianist, it is much more likely he/she is good coach than good technician. It may come in handy for actually making music, but it takes a teacher's absolutely undivided attention to monitor everything the singer is doing, with eyes and ears. The best teachers make arrangements for accompanist when it is appropriate, but lessons are about learning to sing, not just going through music.</p>

<p>This is not to say a good pianist cannot teach voice well, just that the singer must be the focus of attention, not the piano part.</p>

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<p>One thing to look at is the STUDENTS of the teacher. Go to recitals, plays etc and listen to the kids. That says alot!</p>

<p>My daughter started when she was 5 in private voice lessons. At the time I found the "healthy voice" teacher because I did not want to risk her hurting her voice. 5 is young to start I know, but she had a gift early on and folks encouraged me to put her in voice. (To find the healthy voice teacher I talked to the music professor at a local college).</p>

<p>She has had two teachers since then. She won vocal lessons free for two years from her second teacher. But I did not feel she was progressing as much as she could because the teacher missed alot..so we moved on to her current teacher (where she also won a vocal scholarship)</p>

<p>You will want to look at the students. Also see if they focus on a certain type of music..Like one teacher here focuses on classical. D. trained classically and can sing that way but wanted pop so we wanted a teacher that would help her develop her belt voice. However she still will do an Italian piece or something else now and then to stay on top of those skills. </p>

<p>Another thing to consider is the teachers organization. There are teachers who PLAN what they are going to do with the students so they will advance and others who just wing it. The "wingers " have a tendency not to think about songs IN ADVANCE for the student and so much time is wasted with teacher and student going through song after song. And its not fun to pay X per hour and know that most of it is spent search for a tune. They also tend to not be organized with a plan and a goal..so students dont advance as much.</p>

<p>And what types of opportunities do the teachers offer the kids. Competitions, recitals etc. And another biggie how interested are the teachers. Really interested teachers will go see the kids in shows etc.</p>

<p>Ask the music teacher for recommendations...they usually know who is good. I agree with Loreli on the piano..you dont need the best pianist but the teacher should be good.</p>

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<p>BTW my daughter also participated in a local childrens chorus for many, many years. She learned alot there including sight reading. It was a huge time commitment...but an opportunity to explore chorale singing and different types of music. She also did school choirs, all county. and a show choir (dancing and singing).
They learn alot in the different areas.
Currently she is in the performing arts high school for music and also takes private voice. Because she wants to focus on her pop music she gave up the childrens chorus. She is also doing 2 dance classes a week.</p>

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<p>There's a guy I worked with who majored in Vocal Performance somewhere in Canada and now does voice-overs with me here in Seoul, Korea. He charges other voice actors $30-50/hour for private voice lessons, yet he has terrible pitch and his ear is so bad he can't even create a harmony. I've been doing singing jobs with him for years, and he's always been bad. Unfortunately, there are so few male singers here that the clients are forced to use him. But these people who take lessons from him trust him and PAY him to teach them how to sing! I don't think he realizes how terrible he actually is, so it's not a question of limited integrity. He honestly thinks his services are worth money, and these poor people don't know any better.</p>

<p>Watch out for people like this!</p>

<p>PS - If there are any male singers out there who need to make a lot of money in a short amount of time, we really need you guys over here! NONE of the men here can sing, and people are getting desperate! It's $60/hour, 6 days a week. :)</p>

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<p>Samia--LOL. Even here in the Bay Area, the joke is that if you're a woman, it is super competitive, if you're a guy, all you have to do is show up. It is really not quite that bad, but guys who can sing are highly prized everywhere, it seems!</p>

<p>I appreciate all the feedback. If anyone else has any thoughts, I welcome them! I'll probably have more questions, but the trial voice lesson is not for a couple of weeks yet--the first Sat. in Nov. What I know of this teacher is that she is somehow connected to one of the local Cal States, and she performs/has performed a lot. Her one student that I have heard sing (the kid whose mom recommended her) was fantastic in our middle school's production of Fiddler--he was Tevya. He was a 7th grader whose voice had already changed, and he looked/sounded much older than he is (some in the audience were overheard saying that they didn't think it was fair to cast a <em>high school</em> kid in the part). I had seen him in something the summer before and the improvement was amazing--he was completely convincing. And he sounded completely natural.</p>

<p>Lorelei--what you say makes sense. One of my friends in the opera chorus here says that in her opinion what a good voice teacher has to offer is an excellent "set of ears." So I'll look for that.</p>

<p>Part of my problem with the voice teacher that the girls had before was that I don't really know what she was doing. I know she emphasized breathing, and I don't think she did anything "unhealthy," but she did not want parents listening in on the lessons at all, so I'm not really sure what she did in the lessons. And she was an excellent piano player, which is handy, but I kind of did get the feeling that there was a lot of playing and singing which is fun, but I just had a feeling that though what was happening was good, there should be something more to it -- kind of vague, I know . . . Anyway, she was a good teacher to get started with, but it just seems time to try someone/something else. Anyway, this new woman charges $65.00/hr., (slightly above the going rate which seems to be around $50 to $60/hr. here). I certainly want it to be worthwhile!</p>

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<p>Angst--my 12 year old sings in an excellent children's choir here, and she loves it. She is developing good breathing habits, and has developed a really good sense of pitch. (has gotten kind of picky and critical even about people singing sharp or flat . . .) Yes, it is a big time commitment! Even though she doesn't want to take serious voice lessons on an ongoing basis, I know she wants to develop her voice more so that she will get picked for solos, and she also loves theatre, so she could use some sort of help to use her voice to its best, even if she isn't ready quite yet for ongoing weekly individual lessons. She is at a funny age, too. Handle with care . . . I want to help her, but I can't push . . .</p>

<p>Just out of curiousity, my girls have both been on swim team, and that has seemed to me to help a lot with breath control. Has anyone else noticed that swimming helps with singing, or am I way off base here?</p>

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<p>Samia--I just noticed you're in Seoul (takes me awhile sometimes). Do you live there? My inlaws are in Seoul until Jan.! He is serving as an interim pastor at a church there.</p>

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<p>Mstee- there are so many outstanding singers in the Bay Area, I am sure you could find a great teacher for your daughters. You could call the SF Conservatory of Music, as they may have a referral service. And many of the teachers that teach there may also teach from their homes. The probably live all over the bay area, so you could find one close by. If you live in the East Bay, I can get a name for you, as my nephew who just started his freshman year at Kenyon had a teacher out in the Moraga area that my sister highly recommends. My nephew was singing both classical and MT with her. He is now doing an Opera Workshop at Kenyon, and also did the Gilbert and Sullivan summer camp at the SF Conservatory.</p>

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<p>As for your other question about swimming, my D used to swim and I absolutely agree it helps with breathing. It's funny the things kids have in their backgrounds and how they help with MT. My D was doing an MT summer camp here a few years back. My D is not a stellar dancer, but the choreographer needed kids who could kick high for a Hello Dolly number. Her several years of TaeKwonDo helped her get one of the dancing roles in that number.</p>

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<p>Yep, East Bay. Moraga is a little bit out of the way from where we live, but not bad, depending on the time of day (traffic). If you have a name, I'd love to have it--you can PM me. I have collected the names of four teachers. I thought we'd just start with this one, and see how it goes, because I don't know any of them personally, and how do you know anything until you've met the person? --and this one is reasonably close by. It kind of seems like choosing a dentist. There are a ton of them to choose from, but how do you narrow down the list? The few people in this area that I've met whose kids take voice all have different teachers. There doesn't seem to be any one name that pops up over and over as in "Oh he/she is THE ONE!" Or maybe its because my kids haven't been singing long enough for us to have the "inside scoop." One of my friend's daughters just started lessons with another teacher, and you can be sure I'll be watching to see how she progresses (she has a lovely voice already, we'll see what the teacher has her do with it). I also noticed recently that Berkeley Rep has a voice teacher, and it looks like she does shorter term things/classes, which might be just the thing for the 12 year old.</p>

<p>(I noticed that because the 12 year old and her friend recently auditioned there for Brundibar. D was chosen to be an alternate for the children's chorus, which may have been a good thing in this case, because there are 52 performances from mid-Nov until end of Dec--which seems like a LOT of performances to me, and I don't know that she would have been able to do that, esp. since we don't live in Berkeley, and there is the commute time to take into account. Does that seem like a lot to you guys? Anyway, she is hoping that she may get a chance to perform in some of the shows if a flu bug comes along and wipes a few kids out for a couple of weeks, but of course, she may not get to do anything . . .)</p>

<p>Good idea about the SF Conservatory. If things don't work out with this teacher, I will give them a call. Can you tell me more about the Gilbert and Sullivan camp? That sounds like something the 16 year old would be interested in.</p>

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<p>mstee & anothermom:</p>

<p>My d runs cross-country and plays mid-field in soccer, the position that runs the most. Her first voice teacher asked D if she was a swimmer, because of her breath support. And, as she came into the MT thing late (all the athletics took up her time when she was younger), she just started dance 2 years ago. The years of soccer skills and coaches yelling "stay on your toes" really helped with dance, especially tap. </p>

<p>Good luck with the voice teacher search!</p>

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<p>Earlier message mentioned offspring being given "scholarships" for lessons. In the world of voice teaching, according to the tenets of various organizations, this is considered very unprofessional. There is too much danger of singers being exploited, either asked to pay commission for gigs, or just plain used to further own (meaning teacher's) careers. It would not be surprising if this teacher had/has asked for some kind of favor in return for those free "scholarship" lessons. Beware. Arranging a scholarship from local arts patron would be okay, and helping to find a way for singer to work for lessons would be acceptable. When I have had students approach me who could not easily afford lessons, we have arranged less frequent lessons sometimes, and/or a graduate student has taught them and I have monitored things through a practicum course. No teacher worth their salt/oats/whatever gives lessons for free, period. This is a very serious issue.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to say that while various athletic activities such as those mentioned, i.e., swimming, running etc, may increase an individual's stamina, I think that it really has little to do with the kind of breath support necessary for singing. My D is a long time dance student and in very good shape, with lots of stamina. However, when she first started "serious" voice training, her teacher had to help her learn to totally change her way of breathing. Ballet dancers, like my D, are taught from a very young age to "pull up" their bodies and pull in their rib cages and as a result, they must learn how to "chest breathe." The kind of breathing you use as a singer is totally different - it comes from diaphragmatic support and expanding all the areas my D instinctively pulled in from dancing. Singing AND dancing at the same time creates an entire additional set of breathing issues. Fortunately, Broadway style dancing, while it is often "puffy" (the informal term used by dancers for choreography that is highly aerobic), doesn't often have the same postural requirements as ballet. And thank goodness as far as I know, there aren't alot of singing ballets...... ;) </p>

<p>So while being an athlete may have lots of other advantages, not the least of which is overall fitness, I don't believe that the breath stamina gained is directly transferrable to singing. Maybe the real voice "experts" can weigh in on this one.</p>

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<p>Theatermom--interesting about the ballet dancing. I guess I have never thought about ballet dancing and singing at the same time, though of course, the musical theatre kids do move and jump around a lot while singing at times. (I've always wondered how they do that? I certainly can't do anything like it!) I did recently see a sultan sing opera and do push ups and then jump rope at the same time (in Italian Girl in Algiers), which I thought was amazing . . . </p>

<p>It sounds to me from your description though, that ballet breathing and swimming breathing are rather different things . . . But I certainly don't know much about it, thus the questions! It has also occurred to me that Yoga (which emphasizes a type of "belly breathing") could be helpful or at least similar what a singer is taught? Opinions?</p>

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<p>MsTee, yep I live in Seoul. It's beautiful here now! Perfect fall weather!</p>

<p>I also want to mention something about yoga. I've been doing Bikram yoga for the past 3.5 months now, and WOW it does wonders not only for your breathing and singing, but also for your overall health. My lung capacity is so much bigger now, I can go into the splits first thing the morning (and I'm not and never have been a dancer,) and my biceps are harder than most guys' I know. It's 90-minute class performed in a heated room (105 degrees F approx.) The heat allows your muscles to loosen up, making it possible to go deeper into stretches without hurting yourself. The class teaches you not only how to completely focus your mind and body, but also how to relax. It does wonders for your mental and physical health! Also, it's making my singing voice better and more supported than before. Even though you don't speak at all in the class, it somehow warms up your vocal cords! (All that heat and humidity and deep breathing.)</p>

<p>I'm mentioning this for kids like me who aren't stellar dancers but would like to show auditors that we have the POTENTIAL to be somewhat good. Bikram yoga builds the fundamental skills you need for dance: strength, flexibility, and balance. Suddenly I find myself able to do double pirouettes no problem, I can extend my legs at an obtuse angle to the floor and HOLD them there, and I can do all kinds of crazy things with my spine now, haha. If any of you out there are worried about dance auditions like I am, get into a Bikram yoga class! Do dance classes too, of course, but the yoga is what will REALLY get you in shape for those auditions. The dance classes will help you learn combinations quickly, but unless you're super-advanced, they don't really get you in shape, ya know?</p>

<p>Okay I hope that helps a few people!</p>

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<p>For anyone in the Bay Area, I will give the info I know about the Gilbert and Sullivan Camp at the SF Conservatory of Music. It is a couple of weeks long, and is an audition program. The teachers are from the Lamplighters, which is the professional Gilbert and Sullivan troupe the is in residence in SF. The kids range in age from around 12-18. My nephew was one of the older kids. Several of the kids had been cast in Lamplighter productions in the past. My nephew was cast as a pirate in Pirates of Penzance, and The Mikado in the Mikado scene they did. One of the really neat things is the kids use costumes from the Lamplighters. The scenery is very basic, but the training, and the level of the kids there is really good.</p>

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<p>Questions to Ask
1) Teacher's training (One could be a marvelous singer themselves, but without training, may not be able to help others.)
2) Membership in professional organizations (Ex. - NATS, which has been discussed the last few days on the OCU page) Not belonging wouldn't necessarily rule someone out - but belonging to NATS or another voice teacher organization would be a plus.
3) What opportunities do their students have to be exposed to master classes or adjudicated events where other professionals hear them, and critique them?
4) The teacher's own performing background. People who have been performers, again a plus. Anyone who is currently very active in performances may be a minus -- will they be missing a lot of lessons due to their own performing schedule?
5) Size and makeup of the studio. (I'd avoid any that have a TON of young kids, or whose students do pageant work, etc.) Someone who has a mix of teen and adult students are probably doing several things right.
6) Ask questions about their goals for your child. Make sure their goals and your child's are a good match.
7) How are lessons organized? Just as in a dance class - at least 1/2 the time may be taken up with stretch/warmup/barre time, followed by combination work, in many voice lessons, a lot of the teaching goes on BEFORE you ever sing a note of the current song you are working on.
8) Is voice ALL that they teach? While it is possible that someone could teach piano and voice, or guitar and voice, etc., and be qualified to do so - I would prefer someone who is a specialist. Piano/voice people can be great coaches, but often their vocal knowledge is not quite so technically specific as someone who is primarily a singer.</p>

<p>In my area, many teachers do a "trial" lesson - they hear the kid - work with them - your child can get a feel for how they work.</p>

<p>I personally would steer clear of any teacher that does not allow parents to ever come to the lessons. If they say that, I would at least ask for an explanation. It may be that they feel your child will open up more without another person present, but if you are paying for the training, I firmly believe you have a right to at least on occasion monitor the process.</p>

<p>"Legit" vs. MT - I would steer clear of a teacher who ONLY works legit stuff, if you have an MT kid. On the other hand - I would say the same of someone who ONLY does MT -- think of those Italian Art songs as another form of warmup-technique work!</p>

<p>If after starting with a teacher, you are not satisfied with the progress being made - don't hesitate to discuss it with them, and look again if you feel the answer isn't satisfactory. Sometimes, to get rid of bad habits, it's necessary to go back to the beginning, and sometimes a student might hit a plateau, where not much progress is evident, even though work is being done. Don't be afraid to ask! </p>

<p>If you feel your child has progressed to the max that she can with a certain teacher, don't feel obligated because the teacher is convenient, or such a nice person, etc. Don't jump teachers without cause, and certainly discuss any issues before making a decision, but don't feel obligated to remain with someone who isn't getting the job done. (AND - make sure your student is bringing their best to the process! Are they practicing sufficiently? Are they actually doing the warmups the teacher taught them? Are they seriously committed to their own learning?)</p>

<p>SPORTS/DANCE and SINGING - My experience has been that swimming, or other aerobic activities are good for breath control in general. But ballet definitely teaches breathing to a different model! In singing, it's GOOD if the belly expands to breathe - not so for ballerinas!</p>

<p>Another thing to think about - if your child plays a wind instrument - certain ones contribute to a lot of tension in the throat/neck area. I'm certainly not saying to stop the instrument - but make sure the voice teacher is aware -- it may put some things in a different perspective/focus.</p>

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<p>Tks MusThCC!--so much food for thought! </p>

<p>I hadn't thought at all about how playing an instrument might have an effect. Younger D plays the violin and baritone, both of with would probably have some sort of effect, I imagine? She doesn't practice the baritone much, though . . . she just plays it in band because the band teacher loves having her do it . . . easy way to get strokes :) . . .</p>

<p>anothermom--The Gilbert and Sullivan camp sounds very attractive. Tks for the info!</p>

<p>Samia--have you always lived in Seoul? You do musical theatre there? Just curious, if you care to share!</p>