Read this and post your opinion. I bet most will disagree...

<p><a href="http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articles/harvard.shtm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articles/harvard.shtm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I agree with him. I have the stats to go to the school I'm most likely going to end up at, the UW-Madison. Still, I am going crazy trying to meet the demands of Harvard and Stanford. I am doing all this work to try to get into a school that I really have no chance at.</p>

<p>If I got into HYPMS I would go there. Still, I am annoyed that I have to worry about trying to get in when I really don't have a shot. All this extra work I do will be useless because if I do go to Madison because I would have equal footing with all the other students. So all the extra work I did trying to get into Harvard would be of no use.</p>

<p>Still, I disagree with his analysis of the Honors program. Even if you do go to a state school's honors program, it is still just a state school. I like how the top schools don't have an honors program-the honor is graduating from that school.</p>

<p>Yeah, I see where you're getting at. I felt that a lot would disagree mainly because they're so dazzled by Ivy League prestige. And yes, I would to go Harvard if I got admitted because then I'd find a really good job, considering that I'm not lazy and am looking forward to work (and I'll be fluent in Chinese, Russian, Japanese, and Spanish, hopefully)...</p>

<p>Today I went to this workshop where my dad and I got appointed with a college guidance counselor. Yes, it's one of those pay-and-get-counseled-programs, but they don't ask for much and they're really good. I told our guy that I wanted to go to Harvard, but because it's virtually impossible to get in, I'm opting for Rice or Berkeley as realistic possibilities. My dad used to get really upset when I'd bring up Harvard because it's impossible for us to afford it, but after that presentation we had today about colleges providing great financial aid, he's "so-so" on the topic. If only I could find at least 150 K's worth in scholarships... But then again, that would be a waste because we all have a 9% chance of getting it. I'm telling you, it will be down to 5% by the time I apply (and I'm a freshman. Don't worry. I do have a life and I do get off my butt to get where I want to be).</p>

<p>Meh. Sounds pretty sensible, but I still want to go to an elite college. College years are supposed to be some of the funnest of your life and I don't think I could really enjoy myself at a community college 5min away from my house. Also, I do want the best quality of education - honors at CCs are not comparable to Ivey level no matter what that guy says - You just have to pick you classes carefully at elite institutions in the same way you would at less elite schools. Also, the quality of classmates would be worse at those places. Getting in is the tough part though, eh?</p>

<p>If he could have gotten into Harvard, he would have gone there.</p>

<p>Does he really think that you have better job prospects if you graduate from State U. as opposed to HYPSM?</p>

<p>Does he not relize, that, with financial aid, all colleges end up costing about the same to a middle income family. At HYPSM, the amount of loans will be the lowest.</p>

<p>Does he really believe that the hnonrs program at State U. is nothing close to the level of HYPSM. A kid in my high school with a 3.2 GPA and a 1200/1600 SAT and nothing resembling a "hook" got into the honors program at my local state U. Besides honors students still take 80% of their classes with regular students.</p>

<p>I don't understand why people making this argument feel the need to assert that, not only can you get a good education at inferior schools, you can get one equal to or beter than the one you will recieve at Ivies. </p>

<p>Of course there can be profs who focus on their researach at the expense of undergrads. But any good student wants a real scholar teaching them, and any legitimate scholar is going to spend a decent amount of time on research. That doesn't mean they are lousy teachers, or that they never teach. I also don't know where he's getting his stats about students at Harvard being stuck in big lectures. First of all, unless US News is completely lying, only about 12 % of classes at top universities haave 50 + students, and over 70 % have fewer than twenty. State schools have far worse stats, and Williams, the LAC his daughter turned down, probably has better ones.</p>

<p>More top students go to the Ivy than to the state school honors program. He implicitly admits this in asserting that his opinion will be little shared. Also, as bill mentioned, not all your classes are with honors kids.</p>

<p>I know I would have gotten a great education at Rutgers honors, and for free too. But I don't think it could have equalled my Princeton experience, and I don't regret it. Coming from a middle class family, I am only paying as much for P as my cousins are paying for Rutgers. While I know I could have been going to school for free, ultimately, my family thought I had worked too hard to deprive me of one of the best educations availabale because they wouldn't pay what students are routinely charged for state schools.</p>

<p>IMO, what you learn in college depends more on you than it does on the institution offering it to you. But then I'm a freaking hippie.</p>

<p>I used to think it was Ivy or nothing...but then I found interests in life apart from academia. Education is a wonderful thing, but it's not *every*thing. We're only on this Earth for a set time, and I'd rather not waste it sniping over the value of "prestige."</p>

<p>But maybe that's the Prozac talking.</p>

<p>I am not a fan of Ivy or bust, but I want to set the record straight on one point: class size. </p>

<p>My S is a freshman. Last semester, none of his classes had more than 30 students; the smallest had 11. This semester, he has one class that has 120 students, but all the others have fewer than 20. And they are all introductory classes. </p>

<p>There are indeed some classes that have hundreds of students; but that's because the students choose to take them. No one is forcing them to. My S could have selected a class with far fewer than 120. But he wanted to take that one, and he is happy with his choice.</p>

<p>I disagree.</p>

<p>THe only reason I care about Ivy League is one thing: connections. You can definitely get the same education at a state school. connections are much more important, though. most people in government are from the top.</p>

<p>My dad and my mom both went to Harvard.</p>

<p>My dad works as bout as close to the heart of business as it is possible to work. Never once has he gotten a deal / worked with anyone from his class at Harvard. Connections are meaningless at undergrad level - its more about meeting new people. Government may be slightly different, but if you think about the range of ages working in government it is not like everyone will be in the same college at the same time. Plus, there are just too many colleges in America for all of the politicians to go to one or two (as in England) - and its not like politician A is going to go to politician B - you went to princeton and I went to dartmouth! Wow - thats both ivy league - want an internship?</p>

<p>i don't think anyone on this forum can truly agree with that without feeling hypocritical... we're all looking for the prestige, connections, etc.... we all disregard what the adults tell us because we're young, naive, and lack experience... I recognize it and still I would most likely go ivy over state u.</p>

<p>What a previous posted said:</p>

<p>"Does he not relize, that, with financial aid, all colleges end up costing about the same to a middle income family. At HYPSM, the amount of loans will be the lowest."</p>

<p>Completely not true if your EFC is higher than cost of State U. So far for me, state U is way cheaper than any private schools</p>

<p>I remember seeing this article at least 6 years ago. I agree with the author but want to point out that his list of colleges is a)based on personal favorites and b)somewhat dated.</p>

<p>Yeah - isn't Rice just as expensive as the ivys?</p>

<p>No, Rice charges about $10k less a year. Check that, though...I only looked briefly and didn't apply.</p>

<p>I agree with the fact that it's not which college you went to, but what you did while you were there. I personally don't want to go to a close-to-home school, but I think anyone can take advantage of what pretty much any school has to offer. Some are most definitely better than others, but you can get a good education and have a great overall college experience at a variety of places.</p>

<p>I just received my financial aid package from Rice. I would have to pay 7k less at Harvard.</p>

<p>lol choosing a college based on income...</p>

<p>that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.</p>