Realistically chance me on top CS schools?

Yes that is probably why you are seeing curious results. Which of those two factors are the case for you?

-If your parents are divorced you have to include the income and assets of both parents (plus yours) on the NPCs of schools that use the CSS Profile (whereas you only included your custodial parent and your income/assets on FAFSA). Princeton is different if your custodial parent is remarried.

-If your parents own real estate beyond a primary home, the non-primary home assets should have been reported on FAFSA. Both Primary home and other real estate have to be reported on the NPCs of the schools that use CSS Profile.

-If your parents own a business, colleges may disallow certain deductions in order to get a better picture of actual cash flow.

The more you tell us about your situation the more we can help you, there is a lot more detail behind my three bullet points above.

ETA: I fully understand your concerns with U Utah.

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Your goal is to be an officer in the Air Force?

Demographics of the U.S. Military | Council on Foreign Relations has some information on the demographics of the various branches of the US military compared to the civilian labor force.

Pretty sure OP was talking about ROTC in the context of U Utah, where the Black undergrad population is around 1% - 2%. And I expect a not-insignificant proportion of the URMs at Utah are athletes.

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My S is applying CS for the Fall 2022. Northeastern and Brown were two of the schools that we looked into and then didn’t bother applying to once we dug in on the CS program. Both are good schools, neither are particularly strong in CS, and both had unique learning environments that either a student has to want or not want. Putting all that together, we felt that they didn’t justify the cost of attending the schools. Also, both schools have significantly higher acceptance rates for ED than RD, and my S was definitely not prepared to apply ED to either of them.

As others have said, the benefit of a name brand school is a lot less in CS than it is in other fields, so it doesn’t take much for a school to drop off the application list.

Re: University of Utah - Utah is definitely a different environment socially and culturally from the cities on the west coast.

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Have you looked at Arizona (or ASU). At U of A, your tuition would be about $18K after scholarship assuming your GPA as they calculated is what you show.

Just another option…you can apply through late Spring, it’s a solid school, and diversity is no issue.

2022-2023 Incoming First-Year and Transfer Tuition Scholarship Awards | Office of Scholarships and Financial Aid (arizona.edu)

I am sure that race counts. If AO see two identical resumes between Asian American student and African American student, they will definitely take African American student.

Although you have a better chance, you should note that those schools you listed are extremely hard to get in even for kids with 4.4GPA. On top of that, CS major is even harder to get in.

If you get in one of them, it doesn’t matter anymore even if you get rejected by all the rest.

Good luck!!

This is unfortunately an issue at a lot of schools. Cornell is about 6%. Caltech is under 2%. Northeastern, 4%. CMU 3%. These are from College factual, so might not be accurate. My point is that Utah looks like an outlier, but it really isn’t in a major way. They have the same Black student enrollment percentage as Berkeley, a school widely touted as having a very diverse student body. Utah is a very White campus, but it’s going to be a hurdle at many schools.

It’s not something I can relate to in any way. I don’t know what the percentage would have to be to feel that there was a sufficient critical mass of support. I’m sure you will thrive where ever you land though.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying. But Cornell at 7% Black (2020 CDS) is significantly higher than 1%-2%. Also, the URM population of the surrounding area can make a difference. So in this case, the Washington State schools, or Portland State, or Boston schools could be more attractive to OP than SLC…up to OP of course.

Lastly, a majority of U Utah students were raised and/or currently identify as Mormon, something which applicants might consider as well. Religion on Campus More Diverse Than Rest of State, With Proportion of Latter-day Saints Over 15% Lower – The Daily Utah Chronicle

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All the demographics are a huge consideration but at the same time the OP needs realistic schools. Is Cornell (or CMU or Ga Tech) realistic?

My opinion is unlikely - but obviously, I’m an amateur AO like the rest of everyone :slight_smile:

Why I mentioned Arizona. PSU was a good one. When you need costs - I hate to always say Alabama but with his #s that’s $3K a year. And has a significant minority population relative to others.

There’s likely other schools that work - I haven’t look at the demos - but UTK, UK, Cincinnati - I just mean in the sense the OP would be in - and money could be helped with merit (potentially).

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White people may want to consider the somewhat analogous situation of attending a college with a low percentage of White students. Examples:

  • 1% Howard University
  • 2% University of Texas Rio Grande Valley
  • 4% California State University Los Angeles
  • 5% University of Texas El Paso
  • 8% University of California Merced
  • 11% University of California Riverside
  • 13% University of California Irvine
  • 18% University of Hawaii Manoa
  • 22% University of California Berkeley
  • 23% California Institute of Technology

You haven’t mentioned paid employment - have you been working during HS? If so, that does count as an EC and should be emphasized in your applications.

I agree that Portland State with WUE is a great safety for CS. Utah is worth an app, especially with their option to attain residency after the first year, and likely merit. (Can’t combine the residency option with WUE however - it’s either-or.) Their Honors College may be a possibility, especially if the ACT goes well. Honors College Anti-Racism Statement and Actions – Honors College If Utah were ultimately to end up in your top 3 contenders, a visit would be in order, to assess the vibe (racially and otherwise) for yourself.

You have a strong transcript - you’re in the top 7% of your class, with good rigor, and colleges will recalculate weighting for themselves. OTOH, there are a lot of CS-related EC’s that people have been able to continue during the pandemic, so cracking the tier of CS schools where impressive major-related EC’s are expected may be too much to expect. Being URM - especially being a Black male - can be expected to tip things in the right direction at many schools, but less so at the HYPSM-type schools that have their pick of the tippy-top URM candidates. Northeastern, though? My guess is that you get a good URM bump there, with a student body that’s only 4% Black (about half what you’d see at HYPSM)… and the CS program (and Cybersecurity) is really excellent. How does the NPC look for you at NEU? You might consider applying to BU as well (which is where the shared AFROTC program is based, FWIW).

I don’t see how GT ends up being affordable, even if you could get in for CS OOS (with no URM bump as Georgia publics do not consider race). You can’t count on full funding through ROTC if you don’t have that locked in ahead of time.

Tulane isn’t super strong in CS - only has it as a “coordinate major.” Also, the racial dynamics in New Orleans could be a lot to get used to for a PNW POC. If you’re willing to look at the Gulf Coast-ish cities and want to shoot the moon as your list suggests, Rice deserves a serious look. Johns Hopkins is another urban elite school that’s strong in cybersecurity. Also, have you run the NPC for USC? (Although these would just add to your “Hail Mary” list when what you really need is match schools.)

Santa Clara doesn’t guarantee meeting full need, but you could end up with a good package with need+merit, and it’s a very good Silicon Valley-adjacent CS program. (While it’s not majority-white thanks to substantial Hispanic/Latinx and Asian populations, it’s only 3% Black and would likely weight your application accordingly.)

Case Western Reserve U meets need and is an urban school with excellent STEM and an “open door” policy re: majors. Similar racial demographics to NEU - i.e. the URM bump should help you without going to “black dot” extremes.

Overall… if you did manage to crack direct-admit to CS at UW-Seattle, the jackpot would be won right there. Entering without direct-admit isn’t great, though, unless you’d be okay with a less-competitive alternate major. My sense is that the lack of robust EC’s (both in general and CS-specific) will take you out of the running and many or most of the super-reach schools, although a strong ACT would make acceptance a little more plausible. You have some very solid safeties; the challenge is to beef up the mid-range with schools that would be both affordable and appealing to you.

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I can conceptualize it, but I don’t want to trivialize that experience by claiming to understand something I haven’t (and never will) experienced. It’s really not accurate to equate the experience of a White person in a minority situation to that of someone who is Black given all of what is baked into our society historically.

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Totally respect the decision not to apply to a particular school but the “justify the cost” argument was contradicted by a prior ROI thread of CS programs that showed mostly elites and in particularly Brown towards the top…

University ROI for CS

  1. CMU $4,125,963
  2. Rice $3,781,869
  3. Brown $3,535,080
  4. Stanford $3,305,484
  5. Yale $3,296,380
  6. Harvard $3,268,145
  7. Caltech $3,102,888
  8. Cornell $2,966,699
  9. Cal Poly $2,920,317
  10. MIT $2,909,266
  11. UCLA $2,853,535
  12. UC Berkeley $2,843,321
  13. Duke $2,546,552
  14. Johns Hopkins $2,515,869
  15. Vanderbilt $2,461,053
  16. UIUC $2,417,724
  17. U Michigan $2,258,080
  18. Columbia $2,130,692
  19. GeorgiaTech $1,966,139
  20. UW Seattle $1,943,759
  21. University of Chicago $1,759,496
  22. USC $1,746,446
  23. UT Austin $1,701,149
  24. UC Davis $1,683,705
  25. UC San Diego $1,595,324
  26. Purdue $1,547,437
  27. UC Santa Barbara $1,530,075
  28. NYU $1,478,390
  29. UW Madison $1,378,374
  30. ASU $1,154,840
  31. UC Santa Cruz $752,320

Medium – 26 Oct 21

We Calculated Return On Investment For 30,000 Bachelor’s Degrees. Find Yours.

Look up the financial value of tens of thousands of college degrees.

Good luck at finding a good fit.

Here is the link to the CC thread…

I am not interested in turning this into another “T20 or bust” thread, and I doubt the OP is either.

Also, if you think Brown is a great fit for the OP, then make that case. My son is not looking for feedback on his decision.

I was entirely respectful of your sons decision and providing context for OP relative to a school he specifically asked about. No need to be antagonistic.

OPs chance me list…

OP specifically asked about a list of schools that were elite. Your comments are what turned it into an “elite or bust” thread.

Once again good luck to your son and I hope he gains admission to a school that he thrives at.

Here is another survey focused on outcomes for CS that includes most of OPs selections.

Where is Harvey Mudd?

Harvey Mudd College is a private college in Claremont, California, focused on science and engineering. It is part of the Claremont Colleges, which share adjoining campus grounds and resources. The college enrolls 902 undergraduate students as of 2021, and awards the Bachelor of Science degree.

Harvey Mudd’s Computer Science ROI is $3,539,963.

I can’t answer why it doesn’t show up in the list posted above.

Sorry for the literal response. Harvey Mudd was on the second list “25 Best Colleges For…” at number 5.

I didn’t compile or connect the question to the initial list which I just cut and pasted from prior thread.

Wait actually it’s all three… Separated parents, and my custodial parent owns a business operating from a non-primary home. So even if my non-custodial doesn’t live with me do I have to include their income in the NPC? Also, if it’s those 3 factors hiking up the costs on my NPCs, how inaccurate are those price points? Thanks.

Okay it’s two hours since I wrote that above paragraph and I redid the NPC for CMU. I think I messed up and put income inside of the interest field, because now it only comes out to about $9k. Oops! The questions in above paragraph are still up for answers though :stuck_out_tongue: .

Yes, that’s the plan. Purely a financial standpoint, it makes sense to me that having a CS degree after getting out of service will have me pretty set (veteran’s benefits and all that). I plan to shoot for a pilot slot during college, but if I end up doing something CS related in the military instead I think it’ll transition very nicely into civilian life. Note that those things are not the sole reasons I want to do AFROTC - it also ties in with future life aspirations.

Thanks for this recommendation, the aid looks pretty incredible. Program looks solid too. I actually had it on my list before but took it off because I had quite the prestige mindset. +1 to the safeties.

Do you guys reckon my school-recalculated GPA is close to a 4.2-4.3 at some schools? Jr. year I did 45 credits of community college with 7 A’s and 2 B’s, so I’m hoping that’s the case… I hope my school not doing weighted isn’t a disadvantage.

@eyemgh @Mwfan1921 Thank you guys for the perspective. I suppose it’s more the makeup of the city (Salt Lake) that concerns me then. 1% within 1%, ya know? But if all goes less than ideal, U of U is definitely a contender for me in safety considerations. And speaking of Cornell, what are you guys’ thoughts on it? My short research leads me to like it, considering the near 10% admissions rate and lively campus life.

@aquapt

Nope, no work unfortunately.
Thank you so much for your comprehensive insight. A visit to Utah would certainly be in order, good heads up. My NPC is about $33k at NEU… pretty steep., See convos above regarding how that could be inaccurate. Thanks for noting that I might wanna apply to BU due to AFROTC, will check it out later along with Santa Clara and Case Western Reserve U. Immensely appreciate all of those recommendations.
Yeah honestly I’d have to get into a really, really good school to pick it over UW… I’m really confident about my chances to admit, but unsure about direct-admit to CS. There’s no way I’m going if I don’t direct-admit - I’ll just pick another school. I have heard way too many horror stories of comp sci students who were getting 4.0s in freshman and sophomore years just to get rejected and waste two years of their lives.

Only conceptualizing is totally fine! Nobody sane would want you to claim that you completely understand :slight_smile:. That definitely wouldn’t seem “trivializing” to me at least. Being from a differing race in and of itself implies you’ll never fully walk in another’s shoes. The analogy @ucbalumnus provided at least provides a baseline, and that at least furthers your understanding. Empathy shall suffice - thank you for your awareness and willingness to hear testimony from me.

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