My son’s school had no parents weekend. But we attended a parents orientation when we dropped him off in Mid- August and met / saw with his roommates, friends, their parents and a director as well. At parents orientation, the school told parents “Let go your child”…Well, here is the progress…
We hear from our son VERY LITTLE. It’s kinda rude of him ignoring our texts / calls but it must be his way being independent if we think very positively. We don’t access to his student account except financial / billing section so we don’t know his classes / progress or next semester. We put some spending money in his account monthly (he still has only debit card). He seems managing OK. His grandparent missed him so much so we asked him fly back home for a short Fall Break (3-day weekend) in October. Thanks to grandparent who paid for very expensive last-minute flights. Of course, I was very happy to have him home but sad to see him lost weight in less than 2 months…His face got very skinny but at least he didn’t need to downsize his clothes yet. He obviously isn’t enjoying dorm meals so we fed him a lot in Fall Break weekend and sent him a care package. We asked him many questions about school but he answered a little. He likes school. His dorm room sharing with 2 other roommates is very messy (their refrigerator stinks from unknown leftovers so he doesn’t want to use it. Really?) He has/had several good paid gigs in / around city. Fall Break seemed a good quick getaway for him from a very busy intensive conservatory program.
He won’t be back home for Thanksgiving. He and his roommate are going to NY for a weekend to hang with jazz friends there then traveling to his roommate’s hometown to spend Thanksgiving week. He has another gig there with his roommate before heading back to school.
Even I read many posts in the Journey 2019/2023 thread about flights for audition trips, I didn’t realize that how amazing deals to fly with Southwest!!! Two “free” checking bags and “free-cancellation” until 30 minutes before? Wow! I booked flights with Southwest for his Winter Break because I could tell about dorm closure schedule without asking him. I am not telling him about a “free-cancellation” deal. He might take an advantage to reschedule but we really want to see him as early as possible (and feed him a lot).
My son is currently a sophomore majoring in Music and pursuing pre-Med track at Princeton.
BACKGROUND:
About 3 years ago I came on this forum to brainstorm about some of the possible directions to explore for my violinist son. The choices were: conservatory, dual degree/joint program or academic major with musical pursuits on the side. It was an excruciatingly difficult decision, but my son ended up choosing the third option.
PROS:
Highly accomplished and talented musician students as peers abound with similar goals and pursuits. Many of their friendships were already formed during their pre-college Juilliard, pre-college NEC and the summers spent together at the Heifetz International Music Institute as young teens.
Rich and generous resources, opportunities and support for music: private lessons are fully subsidized for music majors and those who are members of the Princeton University Orchestra (PUO) and other musical ensemble groups on FA (even if they're not a music major). As a member of the orchestra and on FA, my son's private violin lessons from one of its faculty were secured during his freshman year. All expenses are paid for by the university for musical ensemble groups' frequent international trips. Just within a year, my son's toured Spain with PUO, Canada with his a capella group over the fall break and scheduled to tour Sweden with his Opus 21 group over this winter break. He and his classmates in the course on Richard Wagner were able to watch The Ring Cycle at the NYC Metropolitan Opera House, the trips and the tickets fully subsidized by the university. So many opportunities and resources, either existing ones offered by the university or created anew by the student, are up for grabs. The summer internships, workshops, camps and whatnot are up for grabbing since just about all applications for funding are approved.
The Princeton-Royal College of Music Joint Degree Program: During the last semester of sophomore year, anyone can auditioned to qualify for a semester abroad and study at the Royal College of Music (RCM). Once there in the first semester of junior year, one can get a "preview" of what it's like to be fully immersed in a conservatory that would help consolidate one's decision as to follow a musical career path or not. If interested, one can audition at the end of RCM immersion for its MM degree. If accepted, the student-musician returns to Princeton to finish up the undergrad and, upon graduation, head back to RCM for the MM degree. Some do follow this path while most enjoy the opportunity to study in London and return to finish up their undergrad. But the flexibility is there for one to exercise.
There are many musical ensemble groups at Princeton. Don't find one you like? Then you can simply create one of your own. My son's not just interested in violin performance but singing, as well, so he joined one of seven or so a capella groups by auditioning for it. He's had no singing lessons or experience prior to this, just his love for singing. He didn't make one of the top premier groups but made one that's co-ed, which suits him better. It's the same one that Brooke Shields auditioned for when she was a student. There are piano ensembles, jazz and just about every other instrument groups to join, even Laptop Orchestra.
Concerts and venues: my son had the privilege of working with Gustavo Dudamel this past year when the maestro had a residency at Princeton. These world class artists come and perform, hold workshops and lecture on campus, the most recent one being Stefan Jackiw and Jeremy Denk duo concert. The state of the art complex, Lewis Center for the Arts, was opened in 2017 with my son's residential college practically next door. His residential college has two music practice rooms, but he prefers to walk over to the Lewis Center to practice in one of two dozen practice rooms all equipped with piano. The PUO's concert venue, Richardson Auditorium inside Alexander Hall is something else entirely. The parents and family members were ushered into this auditorium during the Preview Day, and I was immediately awestruck. With its ancient Greek mural wall across the stage and the indescribable intimate feel of the auditorium just took my breath away.
CONS:
1 con, I'm sure ALL Princeton students would agree, is its academic rigor. Although Princeton ended its grade deflation in 2014, the old habit doesn't go away that quickly. Prior to coming to Princeton, just about everyone were straight-A students in their high schools. That quickly changes and it's very hard for many students to accept that they're now just mere average B or C students with, for the first time in their lives, an accompanying sense of being a failure. My son was intimidated enough that he buried his nose in course works all throughout his freshman year with no socializing, hardly any football or even his beloved tennis and volleyball games even when they're home games. He knows that GPA is very important as a pre-Med student, so he often has to sacrifice his violin practices. Princeton is not an ideal place for a pre-Med. He dropped PUO for this year because he's taking the most difficult pre-Med courses, but he's planning on returning to PUO his junior year.
Being a Music major on a pre-Med track doesn't allow him much room to take opportunities that are freely available. For example, trying out for the aforementioned RCM in London for a semester would mean he won't be able to graduate in 4 years. While he hasn't made up his mind about it yet, it's most likely a no go at this point. My son's wish to apply for funding to participate in the Aspen summer music festival is most likely replaced by summer internship relating to pre-Med, as well. He was accepted to the Aspen summer music festival when he was 15 or 16, but we couldn't afford its full cost, so he had to give it up. Princeton has the funding, but he'd now have to tap it for something else. When there's time, there's no money; when there's money, there's no time, and that's how things often go.
While the private instrument instructors at Princeton are highly capable, they're not at the same level as those faculty at top music schools like NEC, Juilliard, IU, USC, etc. Some students travel to NYC for their private lessons, but such arrangements aren't convenient for time deficient students.
RETROSPECTIVE THOUGHTS:
“Was this originally your kid’s first choice, back-up plan, or something in-between?”
My son’s happy and satisfied with the choice of the path he decided on without an iota of regrets or misgivings. He loves musical performance, whether playing violin or singing or strumming his guitar, but he was quite sure that he didn’t want to make a career out of musical performance. He’s also aware that should his current attempt to pursue pre-Med isn’t really for him and has a change of heart later on, then he can continue to pursue music at that point. So far he’s sticking to his original plan. Princeton is a tough place to be for a pre-Med and a musician, but he’s making it work for him.
Super interesting update, @tiggerdad, thank you. It sounds like your son is doing amazing things! @parentologist, you may find this illuminating as well based on our offline conversation.
This music performance certificate is just one of many certificate programs that Princeton offers. The simplest way to describe it is to think of it as what other schools call a “minor.” Many student/musicians pursue the music certificate, and some do go on to earn an MM degree elsewhere upon graduation.
This certificate program is more doable for a pre-med/musician like my son more so than the aforementioned joint degree program with the RCM since there’s no sidetracking a semester’s worth of time elsewhere. It’s more doable, however, for those who are not on pre-med track. It’s still a very tough task to manage one’s concentration (major), pre-med requirements and the certificate program.
I’m aware that, at least for those who post in this music thread, most are interested in pursuing a BM degree at a conservatory or at a school of music or as a joint/dual degree program. My post is for those who are musicians but more seriously considering an academic path at the same time. We began the journey with the “either/or/or” mindset, but we quickly realized that there are flexible, creative and even roundabout ways to get to one’s desired destination.
TiggerDad could be describing music at many of the schools with large endowments, including, of course, Harvard and Yale. Funding for summer, lessons and other trips and activities is very generous at these schools, as is the level of playing among peers.
The “certificate” has, in the past, struck me as a bit of marketing since many schools offer the same courses and performance opportunities without the “certificate.”
For those choosing this path, it is good to check on funding and credit given for lessons and performance. Also how much performance is integrated into classes like theory and music history (Harvard has in recent years tried to increase this.)
It is possible, of course, to experience Princeton in a different way and then do premed courses in a post-baccalaureate program for that purpose. (There are many: Goucher is the one I have recently seen.) This takes time and money, but I wanted to mention it because a few years ago I didn’t know about it.
Schools like Brown or Amherst (for high performing academic students) have no gen eds and may be a little easier in terms of combining music and science or whatever, and also having a chance to explore other areas of study.
Master’s in the UK are one year, at least at the schools I know. Some may want to finish the degree in a year but some may want to take longer, to have more time to develop (may depend on cost and funding!)
Finally there ARE students who take the BA or BS path and go on to grad school for music
My son is taking 24 credits this semester. 21 are required but he applied for a slot in a chamber course he wanted and got it. This seems ridiculous to me but he is somehow managing and has a social life to boot. His roommate, an actor, came home with him for Thanksgiving. Their entire experience, all 4 years is laid out for them. And he is literally in school all day long 5 days a week. There are also relatively few holidays and no parents weekend or homecoming.
I went to a rigorous LAC and I can’t imagine we are comparing apples to oranges. There is just something fundamental different about the conservatory experience that doesn’t really translate into the college world as I know it.
I think part of the difference is that many of the credits are performance or skills-based. If all of these courses required research papers, I think they’d explode. My son at Eastman has one humanities course with the traditional course load and the rest instrument study, theory, ensembles etc. it’s a ton of work but he does seem to manage it.
Just dropped kid off at the airport - nice having him home for a week. Love that his school did their fall break at Thanksgiving so kids could actually come home.
His experience is quite similar to @akapiratequeen 's son, except with two humanities classes. Just one more to go and he’s probably done with his non-music requirements (thank goodness for dual-enrollment/AP credit). He’s playing and practicing a ton with three ensembles, theory and piano. Kind of reminds me of my undergrad where I had a ton of labs so I was in school all day everyday.
One of kid’s good friends is at Princeton and will probably pursue the certificate in music along with his general studies. A gifted saxophone player who doesn’t want to give it up…and kid’s best friend is at UICU as a civil engineering major who is playing viola in a school-sponsored ensemble. They all seem to make it work keeping music in their lives even though it’s not their major.
He’s taking one Liberal arts course. Yes he’s receiving 5 credits for hist orchestra and instrument lessons. But the skill’s based courses as you call them are absolutely at least as rigorous as my course work in college. These classes meet three times a week. Have home and test/finals. I don’t see any meaningful distinction between a music theory class or a class in economics. Thame is true for music history, ear training etc. The workload is far greater than what I did in a college that has always been in the USN&WR top 20. (I mention this not because I place great stock in rankings like that but just to indicate I didn’t attend a school that anyone would think is “easy”)
The performances course are also extremely time consuming and stressful. They include not just class work, but ridiculous amounts of practice outside the class.
But yes, in the end it is a ton of work but manageable. But in no way is it easier that studying at any elite college or university.
@DoubleBassDad - back in an earlier post (#5) I started by saying:
A music degree is hard.
It is such simple statement yet so difficult to really hear or understand … particularly if you are non-musical parent. You figure that they aren’t going to be a doctor or engineer so how difficult can a music degree be? Well, it can be really hard as outlined in that post!
But just like the audition process, I think you just need to have faith that it all works out. It is hard to watch the stress and lack of time…however…I hear you on that.
@DoubleBassDad I certainly didn’t mean to imply it’s easier! Heck no. I am awed by what these kids do.
That said, I do think that part of this is an adjustment to college life in general. My son is realizing as we speak, for instance, that it was probably wasn’t a great idea to leave so much long-term work for the last two weeks of the term! I remember having the same experience at a liberal arts school my freshman year, and all of my older kids had it as well. Luckily, he’s also having the experience of somehow having it all work out.
Getting back to the original post…What’s is really like now that ___is enrolled? When my son got home for Xmas break he was extra chatty and still running on adrenaline of the first semester finals. I asked “So, are you going back?” The question shocked him, but the reply said it all, “A smirk and a Yes”. He was less than communicative during the term but we know he was very busy with class time every morning from 9-noon and then rehearsals every afternoon and most evenings he was either at masterclass or performances. He is required to take a large ensemble each semester and he also added a jazz ensemble so he was in class rehearsal for 3 hours most days. He’s working on music performance major and math minor. This semester the upper level math class conflicted with the required music courses so he’s taking the math class online. We shall see how that goes but I think it may be a win-win because of the flexibility of online classes. I think getting through semester 1 was a huge accomplishment and built a ton a confidence. Semester 2 feels like a bit of a slog (more piano, music theory , music skills, etc) so we are planning to fly him home very 4 weeks or so this semester to give him some mental breaks. As he gets embedded into the college scene I’m sure the desire to come home will reduce but for now I’m buying tickets! As for normal college stuff…the dorms are gross, the food is bad, and personal hygiene is suspect but watching him mature as a person and musician has been good.
1st semester done at SUNY Purchase as a classical voice major for D. Move in was nuts as it was very hot but it was successful. Freshmen dorms are very small but that was not the main reason D picked school. Lots of long/short plastic boxes to put stuff under bed.
SUNY Purchase allows cars for $20 a year so take advantage of that if you can.
D was in the chorus for 1st opera in fall and will be in chorus for 2nd opera in March.
Opera Shop is 3 nights a week basically 3-10.
Advice on classes - come prepared. D went to a tough high school and was well prepared to put in long hours. Some classmates are still figuring this out.
And we are well into S18’s second semester of sophomore year in classical VP! Taking German I, Men’s Glee Club, French Language and Diction, Music Theory IV, Sight Singing IV, Classical Piano, Applied Music-Voice and he will have a recital. He decided to sit out the spring opera because a local theatre cast him in Spamalot as Sir Galahad/Black Knight/Prince Herbert (“All I want to do is sing!”). That should be fun. Will definitely go over to see Spamalot and hopefully his recital as well. He is currently working on music to submit to summer VP programs in Europe.
Hi quick question my son is considering applying to a Columbia. Did your son submit a supplemental recording of his music? We weren’t sure whether to submit as it’s not required and we have read mixed things on sending extra material that admissions office didn’t require.
