<p>I am a student who was expelled from a top 20 school for academic integrity 2 years ago. I was immature and unready for college. The pressures of rigorous schoolwork in addition to other personal problems resulted in me making some really bad decisions during my freshman year, which resulted in my expulsion.</p>
<p>The dean and professors of said incidents have said that they are willing to positively recommend me, even speak on my behalf when I decide to reapply. Thankfully, I am in a position where I can apply as a freshman during the regular admissions cycle OR apply as a transfer. This post is regarding the option of applying as a freshman.</p>
<p>My question is whether or not I'll have a shot at any of the top 20 colleges. My SATs are near perfect and I'll have a full semester of straight A's from community college as well as some miscellaneous credits from other top universities (which is still below what most colleges consider for transfer applicants). I would consider my extracurriculars on par or better compared to applicants who regularly get accepted to schools that are in between 10-20 rank wise (Schools like Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc).</p>
<p>Considering my strong position in regards to test scores, grades, and ECs as well as my academic integrity violation and the willingness of my previous dean and professor to write a positive reference for me, what are the chances that a top 20 college will take a chance on me?</p>
<p>Would applying as a transfer or freshman be better?
Is there anything that I should do specifically in order to increase my chances?</p>
<p>Applying as a fr is just about always ‘better’ than as a transfer for selective colleges (admission rates, FA). </p>
<p>Before assessing your admissions chances, you need to determine if you can apply as a fr. How long/how many units of post-HS college coursework have you done? Here you say:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While in your other thread you say:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>and in neither do you say how long you studied at your first college.</p>
<p>If you have completed a full year of post-HS college coursework, then you need to apply as a transfer to any college.</p>
<p>You need to check whether the college courses you attempted or completed after graduating high school will disqualify you from frosh admission at the colleges you are interested in (check each college, since their rules may vary).</p>
<p>Unless you are ready to declare a major and graduate in two years, it is almost always better for you to apply as a frosh than a transfer. Among other things, scholarships tend to be more available to frosh applicants, and many private schools admit very few transfer students.</p>
<p>Thank you for the feedback, @entomom I have technically finished a year of community college, but I was only attending part-time and have about one semester’s worth of work. I can choose whether or not I want to complete another 2 semesters during the summer and the coming fall, but the choice will substantially affect my admissions plans.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus
I have checked for all of the colleges that I am planning to apply to, and if I don’t take college classes this summer or fall, I will be eligible to apply as a freshman for most of them. However, I would like to ask you about the freshman vs transfer situation.</p>
<p>-Do you think that schools like Vanderbilt and Notre Dame (with transfer rates around 40%) as well as less competitive schools like W+M, UMich, and UIUC (also around 50%) would be easier to get in through freshman admission? </p>
<p>-Also, considering my academic integrity violation, do you think that such colleges would be more likely to be forgiving in the freshman pool than in the transfer pool? </p>
<p>-Money is a secondary concern to getting me back on track, and I don’t expect to get into any private schools that have lower than 30% acceptance rate for freshman admissions due to my academic integrity violations. </p>
<p>-Many of the colleges that I want to go to also have either rejected or accepted me during the last admissions cycle. I hear that there is almost a zero percent chance of being admitted after a second try, especially considering my academic integrity violation. I was hoping that submitting a transfer application would raise those odds for schools that have previously rejected me, and would not change anything for the colleges that have accepted me beforehand.</p>
<p>-Would you say that an expulsion for academic integrity during the first semester of freshman year is equivalent to an expulsion for academic integrity during high school given that I will have spent almost 2 years away? How severely will adcoms view this (will they just throw my application in the bin or see it as a positive experience)?</p>
<p>For any school that notices or cares about an academic integrity violation, you are a much less desirable candidate than you were before, whether you apply now as a frosh or transfer. (Presumably, the violation also came with an F grade in any course(s) where the violation occurred.)</p>
<p>While it is true that many students transfer to schools that they were not able to be admitted as frosh, that typically described students with mediocre to poor high school records but turned it around in college (often community college), substantially upgrading their desirability to colleges that they apply to as transfers.</p>
<p>Your situation is the opposite, in that you had the credentials to get into a presumably highly selective school, but have now significantly downgraded your desirability by being expelled for an academic integrity violation. Realistically, you need to look at much less selective schools that admit by stats only or otherwise do not care about your academic integrity violation.</p>
<p>Are you saying that realistically, no reputable colleges will touch me because of the academic integrity violation? I realize that I seriously messed up, but is there any way to diminish the impact of the expulsion? I’m trying desperately to move on, but its hard when it seems as though there is very little hope in getting back to where I once was academically.</p>
<p>Plenty of reputable colleges are not super selective and may admit with stats only or without caring about your violation. You just have to get rid of the idea that any college that is not “top 20” is not reputable.</p>
<p>What exactly did you do? if I may ask. There can be a grey area here, but that depends on the situation @ hand ( the real FACTS behind the dismissal). Some schools might overlook certain facts, while others will not.
Also a thread like this can be use as a learning experience for all students (thus, reason for stating the incident and how it all played out, without naming a school or characters that might further complicate the issue).</p>
<p>Could you give me a general scope of such colleges? In terms of admissions selectivity, I would really like to go to UIUC or Umich, but I feel as though these colleges will feel the same as any super-selective school about my academic integrity violation. I doubt that any college regardless of its selectivity or reputation will simply disregard my academic integrity violation in its entirety, and even schools with auto-admit policies have clauses that exclude students with previous records of suspensions, expulsions, or felonies.</p>
<p>In terms of applying, are you saying that applying as a freshman 4 months early and with one semesters worth of classes to colleges that have already rejected me is better than applying as a transfer student with a years worth of classes, more time under my belt, and a new evaluation of my stats?</p>
<p>Also, I know that I’ll be fine wherever I end up. This entire ordeal has taught me to be humble if nothing else. However, I can’t help but feel guilt and depression when I think about one stupid mistake during the first few weeks of my freshman year that got me expelled from one of my dream schools. I feel as though I can only put it to rest if I can prove to myself that I’ve improved as a person and get back to the level I was at previously. Anything else and I’ll always be left with a “what if” feeling for the rest of my life and I’m determined to not let that happen.</p>
<p>During the first weeks of freshman semester, I was dealing with some tough times (actual depression) and I just cracked. I cheated on several project assignments for a writing class by copying answers. I was also borderline suicidal and was seeing a psychologist. I eventually confessed because the guilt and stress was having actual physical effects (I forgot to eat for days). I was expelled before midsemester grades were even released. Both the professor and dean found the whole situation regrettable and offered to write positive recommendations for when I transferred. I’ve since taken two semesters of CC courses (but part-time, so really just one semester worth of classes). If I decide to transfer, I will take classes on a non-degree basis at a local college and continue stacking CC credits until April, which is the transfer deadline for most schools. Otherwise, I will get job experience (internships and such) during the time. I have also gotten internships, started working, and traveled Europe since I was expelled. Overall the expulsion has actually been a very positive experience. I’m pretty stable (emotionally and physically), but getting ready to apply for colleges and having to deal with the fact that I’m going to have to settle for a lot less is pretty depressing.</p>
<p>@2ndchancePlease. Very sorry about your situation. The most important thing is that you have sought help, gotten treatment and feeling much better to continue your life passions.
Since you have only taken less than 24 credits which is what most colleges put as a cap to be considered a “TRANSFER STUDENT”, you can still apply as a freshman.
In addition, applying as a freshman will allow you to benefit from scholarships awarded to freshman, which is usually better than transfer student scholarships in most cases.
As far as schools you intend to attend: I will say apply early this October, once Common Application opens - then mail in your application as well to school you are interested in, that do not use Com App. Apply to both your reach and safeties (Privates & Public - Large & Small) and share your story with them as an additional-volunteered information on a separate sheet of paper or page depending on how you want to send it to them. It will be left for each school to examine your situation, make calls to your prior school if need be, and decide if they want to give you a “second chance” @ their institution.
In all, you will be putting in your all, and the rest will be out of your control. But you will be glad that you were honest by acknowledging your mistakes, taking ownership, and made adjustments to never do it again.
Best of luck to you, and remember ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.</p>
<p>I’m I missing something here? You can never generalize any school situation. Even when it says 24, only 12 might transfer. Ther are thousands of colleges and universities; private and public, and “NO TWO INSTITUTIONS ARE THE SAME, WHEN IT COMES TO POLICES ON HOW THEY RUN THEIR INSTITUTION”.
This is why i said “MOST” and not “ALL”.
Hope that helps.</p>
<p>OP, I think you are looking for an answer that no one on here can really answer, since how schools will view your history will vary from school to school. My advice would be to apply to a wide range of schools. Spend time looking for schools in all levels of selectivity and find ones that you could be happy at, apply, and hope for the best. With respect to the transfer issue, I think that too, is, dependent on the school. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>I think that you have a shot at some public schools, but not much of a chance for any competitive private schools. Even schools like Notre Dame and Vanderbilt that have high transfer rates pick from a very competitive pool, and I think that your academic integrity violation will disqualify you from that pool. However, as I said, I think big public schools such as UIUC, Umich, UM-CP, and Possibly UCLA (berkeley even maybe?) may take a chance on you.</p>
<p>@ berkeleyCS
Do you really think that a top public school like Berkeley would consider my candidacy over applicants with similar stats, even with my academic integrity violation?</p>
<p>Does anyone have any success stories or interviews that would suggest that these colleges are willing to look past my mistakes?</p>
<p>Also, is it true that I have to be in good standing with all prior educational institutions in order to apply as a transfer to most universities? I’ve heard this many times but I can’t find a clause in any of the colleges that I plan on applying to that require good standing at prior institutions.</p>
<p>Note that UCs will consider you a transfer if you have taken any college courses after the summer immediately after high school graduation.</p>
<p>In any case, if those violations came with F grades in the courses that you had the violations in, those F grades alone will do serious damage to your chances of admission (as either frosh (if allowed) or transfer), even if the school is willing to overlook the violations.</p>