Recommendations for low'ish GPA, perfect ACT score, part Native American kid

<p>My S is, I believe, a quirky candidate. His UW GPA is 3.6, W is 3.89, but he is a NMSF and has a perfect ACT score. He goes to a small newer private school that is very rigorous with other high achieving kids (6 kids out of a class of 90 were NMSF) but I don't think colleges recognize this school yet. He is part Native American (dad has tribal number but S does not), probably 10%. He self-identified as Asian, white, and NA. His primary interest is engineering but he is also into the humanities and design/art.</p>

<p>His current list of schools under consideration: HYPSM, Columbia, Brown, Upenn, Dartmouth, JHU, Carnegie Mellon, UT Austin, UCSD/UCLA, USC, Fordham, Northeastern, Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, Pomona, Harvey Mudd. Finances are no consideration; not applying for aid but merit money is appreciated and will be considered. I would prefer he go to a reach school and happy to pay full price than a lesser school at a big discount. The list would have been even longer but we eliminated WashU and Cornell and nice schools like Grinnell/Bowdoin/Amherst due to location, amongst other things. He has visited all of these schools except Princeton, Duke, Vandy, Rice, and NU and liked to loved all of them. I would like a place for him that is more nurturing and less intense/stressful. I am concerned about a school like MIT due to the reference that it is like drinking from a fire hose and I asked him to eliminate Cal Tech for that reason.</p>

<p>Would appreciate any thoughts/comments/advice on this list and which schools would be a best fit for him... thanks.</p>

<p>I think I would add in WPI. They really promote creativity and structure class work well. You can focus on a particular arts interest to satisfy requirements. Brown would be quirky. Might be a fit. I don’t think the Native American hook will help if he is not recognized by the tribe. What are his ECs like. It will be very difficult to get into some of these schools.</p>

<p>Thanks gearmom… his ECs are narrow but interesting. He was accepted to Columbia for an all expenses paid visit to SEAS which was an amazing and fantastic experience and this was a highly selective group. We recognize that it is a very reachy list which is why it is a big list… casting a wide net because he may get into 1 or 2 of these schools but we can’t predict which ones. I think Brown would be one of the less stressful places to attend and that appeals to me, on his behalf. They also have RISD right there for art/design exposure.</p>

<p>It looks like the list does not have any obvious safeties. He may want to throw in an automatic-for-stats or automatic-for-NMSF (or NMF if he made that) scholarship school for a safety (some have 12/1 deadlines for scholarships, so apply quickly if desired):
<a href=“http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/”>http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/”>http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt;
Other possible safeties may include in-state publics that auto-admit by his stats. If he has no safeties in his application list, his default safety is starting at a community college.</p>

<p>Note that Pomona and Fordham do not offer ABET-accredited engineering, and Dartmouth’s ABET-accredited engineering majors take more than four academic years of attendance (13-15 quarters instead of the usual 12 quarters).</p>

<p>What are his other preferences? Note that the social scene can vary significantly. For example, Dartmouth is a small rural school where fraternities and alcohol are prominent parts of campus life, while several of the other schools are in big cities with the attractions of such.</p>

<p>Thanks ucbalumnus! He does have one acceptance already at a safety school in Utah that offers full tuition for NMF. I think he is also likely to get into Fordham and maybe Northeastern with target/match schools being possibly UCSD and USC. Pomona and Fordham are lower on his list due to what you pointed out about engineering. He prefers urban but would clearly make that a low priority factor if he got into S or P, or even Dartmouth if that turned out to be the only reach he gets into. He would likely find his “tribe” regardless of what general setting he ends up at. Greek life and drinking and sports in general would be at the bottom of the list if he ended up with choices but he could certainly tolerate it if he had limited choices.</p>

<p>He might want to look at Rose-Hulman and Olin both are known for being collaborative rather than competitive and have lots of hands on work as well.</p>

<p>Thanks somuch2learn!</p>

<p>You should cut down the list as it is too time consuming to apply so many schools. After all, the STEM programs are more or less the same. Visiting some will help elimination.</p>

<p>Perhaps you should also look at Lehigh and Cooper Union.</p>

<p>The Utah safety has the desired ABET-accredited engineering majors and is a school that he would like to attend? If not, it may be worth finding a true safety with good academic and non-academic fit to add to the list.</p>

<p>In any case, trimming the list may allow more time to write essays for the better fit schools. The schools without ABET-accredited engineering degree programs (Fordham, Pomona) may drop off for academic unsuitability. Dartmouth, with its >4 year ABET-accredited engineering programs and its prominent fraternities and sororities (about two thirds of eligible (sophomore and higher) students join) does not seem like that great a fit for a student who is not interested in fraternities, sororities, and alcohol.</p>

<p>Note that Northeastern is a very pre-professionally-oriented school built around co-ops (generally a 5 year program, but with 4 academic years of school mixed with co-op jobs in between).</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions! To be frank, it is very hard to find safeties that he would love. Sure, he’d be okay attending them and they would beat community college but try as we might, no safeties he loves. He has less reachy schools that he would joyfully attend though: UT Austin, USC, UCLA or UCSD. He would be fine as well with Fordham and Northeastern. He just has to get into one of these! and he’d be fine. Maybe I am overly optimistic but it seems a lowish likelihood he would be shut out of all of these with a perfect ACT score and NMSF.</p>

<p>The plan is to get through as many applications as he can do well; he may not get to them all. Probably over half the schools are quite easy to apply to (Fordham was super easy and free, many are conducive to repurposed essays) and the other half that are more work intensive (thinking of you, Princeton) will be prioritized in rank order of interest and work involved. Yes, Dartmouth is lower on the list but I don’t see D as ruled by Greek life and alcohol. Sure, that is known there but there must be groups of students who don’t partake in that. Dartmouth also has some of the highest “happiness” reports and alumni loyalty which I take as indicators of a well regarded fond experience. Princeton, Dartmouth and Rice stand out in that regard based on research thus far, and of course Yale and Stanford.</p>

<p>He has wide interests and would prefer a school that is not as specifically technical… a good engineering program in a setting with overall excellence and many other areas of interests would be ideal.</p>

<p>Some kids WANT to drink from the fire hose. Be sure you are following his desires, and not just your own. My D2 is at Harvey Mudd, and it is a combo “fire hose” and “supportive” environment. Lots of tutoring/prof office hours/other students taking the same courses available. She wanted the fire hose, but needed some of the support, too. It has worked out well for her.</p>

<p>Ha! I wish he was THAT kid, intparent! lol… as my best friend said, he will rise to the top wherever he ends up going as long as he is inspired. I would love to help him find a place that inspires him the most. Harvey Mudd IS great and he plans to apply there. I would actually prefer it to Caltech for him because he has access to the Claremont colleges for other classes and it would seem to be more broad based in that regard. </p>

<p>Is the Utah safety one of University of Utah, Utah State University, or Brigham Young University? If not, then he may be giving up on engineering by attending, as he would if he attended Fordham or Pomona. Of the three, University of Utah appears to have the largest selection of engineering majors. See <a href=“http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramSearch.aspx/AccreditationSearch.aspx”>http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramSearch.aspx/AccreditationSearch.aspx&lt;/a&gt; .</p>

<p>Are you willing to pay for 4+1/3 to 5 years of Dartmouth if he chooses to study engineering there? Also, the fraternities and alcohol reputation there is well known: <a href=“http://thedartmouth.com/2014/10/17/opinion/verbum-ultimum-abolish-the-greek-system”>http://thedartmouth.com/2014/10/17/opinion/verbum-ultimum-abolish-the-greek-system&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>UT Austin is probably more difficult to get into than you think if he is not within the top 7% rank in a Texas high school. Automatic admission of the latter fills up about 3/4 of the admission places. In Texas, look at Texas A&M, which has a nice scholarship (includes waiver of out-of-state tuition) if he is NMF: <a href=“https://scholarships.tamu.edu/Scholarship-Programs/National-Scholars#0-NationalMerit®Opportunities”>https://scholarships.tamu.edu/Scholarship-Programs/National-Scholars#0-NationalMerit®Opportunities&lt;/a&gt; . Note that Texas public schools use class rank instead of GPA for most purposes.</p>

<p>The UCs tend to emphasize GPA over test scores, and their engineering majors tend to be impacted (meaning more selective for admission). Consider some of the other UC campuses if he is interested in attending and you are willing to pay.</p>

<p>Thanks, ucbalumnus…I am sorry I didn’t add that he does have UC Santa Cruz on his list. It wasn’t in my head but I double checked and saw that it was on there.</p>

<p>He is particularly and specifically enamored with UT Austin so I don’t know if he would go for Texas A&M. He also got a fee waiver offer (not need based) from Rice so he’ll definitely apply there as well; I know it is a reachy school so the fee waiver is quite appreciated. So far, he has fee waivers from Columbia, Rice, Macalester, the safety in Utah and Fordham. </p>

<p>Other great merit money schools that are not on his list due to location, etc. are UA and U Pitt. </p>

<p>I am willing to pay for 4-5 years of school at Dartmouth if need be, but it is lower on his list. The Greek life and alcohol are issues I am aware of and would consider but it would not eliminate that school if it was the best school he got into. </p>

<p>UCSC has only computer engineering and electrical engineering. If those are his interests, it is a perfectly fine school, and driving distance to Silicon Valley computer companies that he may try for jobs at. But it does not have other engineering majors.</p>

<p>Macalester does not have any engineering majors.</p>

<p>If he wants to be in a big city, namely New York, there is New York University Polytechnic School of Engineering (formerly Polytechnic Institute). It is expensive with poor financial aid, but that does not matter since you are willing to full pay. A bit outside the city is the small Stevens Institute of Technology.</p>

<p>Cooper Union is also in New York, and is focused on engineering and art.</p>

<p>yes, we walked by Cooper Union and even had an interview scheduled there but the dates were wrong; they had us down for a different day than during our trip out there. He felt it was too small for him. </p>

<p>One of his closest friends is likely going to Stevens and would love for my son to join him. It sounds really great but he would prefer a school that is broad based, like Columbia SEAS that has Columbia college for a wide array of courses.</p>

<p>He is interested in EE and computer engineering so UCSC could possibly work out for him. He hopes to have better options though.</p>

<p>Hmmm… I did not know NYU had engineering. Is it good?</p>

<p>NYU engineering is the former Polytechnic Institute (of New York University), which was recently merged into NYU, becoming NYU Polytechnic School of Engineering. Financial aid is probably worse now after the merger (the former PINYU had better financial aid than NYU’s infamously bad financial aid), but that seems not to be a concern for you.</p>

<p>Its ABET-accredited engineering programs are listed here: <a href=“http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=416”>http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=416&lt;/a&gt; . Remember that ABET accreditation is a relatively high minimum standard, so the range of quality between various ABET accredited engineering programs is narrower than for many other majors.</p>

<p>Also in New York is City College of New York. It is significantly less expensive, even for out-of-state students, than typical private schools. But it is mainly a commuter school, so it may not be the place if he wants a residential college experience. Out on Long Island is Stony Brook University, which is well respected for engineering and other subjects.</p>

<p>Not sure why you don’t want to name the “safety in Utah” or say anything about it. But if it is not UofU, USU, or BYU, he may have to find another safety.</p>

<p>thanks ucbalumnus. The school in Utah is a small private school called Westminster; it has a good reputation in the area and it has engineering. It is ranked 20th in Western regional; Texas A&M is ranked 84 as a relative comparison. I picked it based on the list of schools offering full tuition+ for NMSF and chose this school and Fordham and Northeastern for that reason combined with their locations. If he goes to a relative safety, it might as well be for a greatly reduced cost. </p>

<p>Westminster does not have ABET-accredited engineering programs (engineering is only offered as a 3+2 program, which means that he would have to transfer to complete an engineering degree; very few students intending 3+2 programs actually transfer).</p>

<p>Find a safety that has ABET-accredited engineering programs so that he does not have to give up engineering if his only choice is his safety.</p>

<p>Rankings in different categories (western regional versus national) are not comparable.</p>