Recommendations Needed for HS Violinist

<p>I've written before. D is a violinist and will be a HS senior. We've visited five music schools this winter and spring and D has had lessons with the violin teachers at those schools. A sixth visit is scheduled for later this month. These visits and lessons have taught us that it will be very difficult to gain admission as a music performance major in violin. But D wants to major in music performance anyway.<br>
D intends to apply to at least five schools. Please recommend some music schools, with solid programs and good violin teachers, that might provide a relatively higher rate of admission for music performance in violin. We're looking primarily at schools in the Mid-Atlantic, Mid-West, and New England areas.</p>

<p>It’s difficult to give precise recommendations without knowing more about your son’s level of playing and where you have already looked, but you do have many excellent options. Violin is very competitive, but you have already done something very important in traveling to schools and meeting the teachers in the spring of the Junior Year. You might be making more trips of this type come fall. I’m listing schools with strong violin faculty in order of selectivity from toughest to less cut throat. The main thing is to find a teacher who seems willing to make space for your son in their studio; your son’s teacher can probably point you to the studios to try for. Most of the wisdom on this site will recommend finding the teacher rather than the music school, but I’ll go ahead with the list anyway. </p>

<p>Midwestern schools: Cleveland, Oberlin, Carnegie-Mellon’s conservatory, Indiana. Northwestern and University of Illinois also have strong string departments (Northwestern in particular has the Vamoses on violin faculty). You might also look at University of Michigan. </p>

<p>New England Schools: In Boston: New England Conservatory, Boston Conservatory, Longy School of Music, Boston University College of Fine Arts. Hartt School of music in Connecticut. </p>

<p>Mid-Atlantic: In New York City: Juilliard, Manhattan School of Music, Mannes-New School.
In New Jersey: Trenton College of New Jersey actually has some good people on faculty in violin. The same is true of Rutgers–Mason Gross School of Music.</p>

<p>strongkeymom,</p>

<p>stringkeymom,</p>

<p>Sorry for the typo in your name and for sending my response before completing it. Thanks for the recommendations. I’m familiar with most of the recommended schools. My impression is that nearly all of them would fall into the “reach” category. Would Rutgers, Michigan, and Illinois actually be a little less competitive than the others that you recommend? D is a solid violinist with weekly lessons for 10 years and daily practices, but she’s not conservatory material.</p>

<p>Try Ithaca. My D is very happy there; she is a performance major, but most students in the other violin studio are education majors. I know they’ve gotten a new teacher for the second studio for next year.</p>

<p>University of Maryland, College Park is also good, but not easy to get in to.</p>

<p>Viodad: So if I understand, you’re looking for colleges or universities with good music departments, especially with strengths in violin. In this case, it’s hard to advise without knowing your daughter’s academic profile, but, I would consider schools like St. Olaf noted for their music programs. I do think Boston University’s Fine Arts might be accessible, and possibly Rutgers/Mason Gross. Your best bet is to contact teachers at those schools. If you would like to PM me, we can talk in more detail.</p>

<p>Lawrence University (Midwest) has a College and a Conservatory. You can do a BM in the Conservatory (audition required) or a BA with a major in Music Performance in the College (audition not required).</p>

<p>So, apply for both (college and conservatory). If she makes it into the conservatory, then great. If not, and she makes it into the college, then she can get a BA.</p>

<p>Viodad - my violinist D is very happy at Miami U of Ohio. They are in need of violinists, so there tends to be money attached, and admission is selective but not over-the-top. My D likes the teacher a lot.</p>

<p>viodad, I’ve read through your prior postings to refresh my memory, and I’ve linked your most recent thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/680994-guidance-hs-junior-violinist.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/680994-guidance-hs-junior-violinist.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>While that last thread mentioned a music ed focus, and named specific schools you were planning on visiting, I do understand that she is now focused on performance rather than ed.</p>

<p>Of the schools you named, I would call IU/Jacobs the toughest audition based admit, followed closely CMU, Dusquesne & Ithaca, then Temple; Susquehanna, Capitol, Westchester & IUP might be considered the least competitive of the group. The groupings are subjective, based on my understanding and knowledge of the level of student admitted to these programs. It is neither gospel, nor cast in stone.</p>

<p>I want to add that I basically concur with what stringkeymom has suggested, but not necessarily agree with the order of the listings. Again, these are subjective, based on a number of facets and individual preferences. </p>

<p>Without knowing the specific schools you visited, and the range of comments that elicited or reinforced the belief that violin performance is a tough admit (virtually anywhere) the advice is to cast as wide a net as possible that would enable your d to study with a teacher suited for her needs within a school of comparable peer level, and with ample comparable depth and talent across all instruments. All of the programs mentioned can achieve that. Some have better name recognition than others. The key question is are you looking for additional schools at the top, middle or end of your March post listings? </p>

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<p>Remember any audition based program is a crapshoot, and there are far too many variables within each years audition pool to be accurate. The best assessment is detached professional assessment of current skill level and potential, something impossible via an internet forum. Reference shennie’s post #9 in your March thread. I agree with her completely. </p>

<p>Without specific direction I’ll add to the lists stringkeymom has suggested with the caveat that none are “easy” performance based admits. </p>

<p>Midwest: DePaul, Depauw, Roosevelt U (CCPA), and do not discount St. Olaf
New England: I would definitely include Ithaca
New York/ New Jersey: SUNY Purchase, (and mention both Potsdam and Fredonia as alternatives), and you might want to look at Bard.
Mid-Atlantic: U Maryland, Vanderbilt, and do not discount either JMU or Shenandoah or Appalachian State.</p>

<p>University of Michigan is not terribly competitive; Western Michigan University has a decent violin teacher; University of Wisconsin has a good teacher as well, and I don’t think it’s terribly competitive. Has your daughter attended any summer music programs? It may be too late for this summer (although you may find some places still have openings) but that’s the best way for her to figure out if she really wants to be a violin performance major.</p>

<p>Viodad,</p>

<p>I can tell you that I definitely know solid violinists who have been rejected as violin performance majors at U of Michigan and U of Illinois. The kids I’m thinking of were auditioning on works such as Bruch Concerto or Lalo Symphonie Espagnole and Bach Partita #3. Etude levels were Kreutzer and Rode - easier Paganini at a stretch. They played in tune, basic sound was solid, and there were no glaring technical problems. They also had experience in youth orchestras, summer programs including Eastern Music Festival and Brevard and auditioned chamber music programs. When it came to college auditions, they were simply outclassed by students who played at a higher level. I guess my point is that there are simply no “givens” these days - the playing of a potential violin performance major at competitive schools must stand out from the crowd in some way. </p>

<p>I’ll send you a PM.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>I can’t comment on the schools here,they seem to tally with what I think I know about the various programs and their relative levels of admission ‘toughness’ and such. Some schools you never know, I have heard from kids who applied to music schools this year and from professionals that Bard for example is turning into a highly competitive program so these kinds of listings I suspect can change as programs themselves change.</p>

<p>My pieces of advice are based on what I know of the crazy world of the violin, and that is if your D is seriously wanting to enter into violin performance, now is the time, to quote my dad (in less salty language), to pick up the bricks and walk with them. The reason I am saying this is that violin performance is so damn competitive that you have to give yourself every edge you can, and while there are so many variables into what makes a performer who can actually make it as a performer, one of the things is obviously how well prepared the violinist is and how much they are willing to stretch, to fight for it. If your D is seriously looking at performance and especially as a potential career (and more importantly, to perhaps going to grad school after) they kind of need to notch it up now, if what I have seen, heard and experienced in this crazy world holds. Instead of perhaps aiming at a slighly lower level, I would encourage D to pick up the pace now, as soon as possible, and then by the time the audition process hits be at their absolutely best (and this is just my opinion, others may have different ones, and they could be right).Among other things:</p>

<p>-I don’t know what level they are practicing at now, but if it is practicing an hour or maybe 2 a day, they probably should ramp it up, to give themselves the extra time to straighten things out.</p>

<p>-I don’t know anything about your D’s teacher, but you may want to look into finding a teacher to supplant what D is doing in the program with the current teacher, given the timeframe. I can speak with some experience based on my son’s journey that having another teacher can help tremendously working out issues he was having that with his main teacher didn’t work out easily. He has another teacher (who works with the first one, I am not saying to do this in stealth mode), and that person was able to help fix issues with his unaccompanied Bach fugue that his main teacher couldn’t work him through correcting and in a short time. </p>

<p>It is kind of like sprinting into the home stretch, and any kind of advantage you can give D will probably be worth it I suspect. A friend of my son’s was a senior this past academic year, and she really, really pushed it, and she improved a great deal between this past spring and the fall audition season, and did well on her admissions. She had a lot to work on, but it is possible:) (there is a standard joke that you can tell the senior violinists in any program, they have violin hickey’s from hell:)</p>

<p>I wish you D luck and good hunting:)</p>

<p>Violadad, thank you for linking to the other thread, it makes a huge difference to see the list of schools under consideration. Also thanks for adding on to the list of schools. </p>

<p>Operadad, thanks for reminding us about Lawrence, I have friends who were very happy there. </p>

<p>Another possibiity is Cincinatti which has been building its violin program.</p>

<p>Fiddlestix; yes, I hear you. When my son auditioned this spring at NEC and Juilliard, most kids were auditioning with Brahms, Sibelius or Tchaikovsky and the advanced Bach partitas (the Chaconne or the am fugue). The bar just keeps getting higher all the time. </p>

<p>Viodad–something to think about that musicprnt touches on, is how many hours a day of practicing your daughter feels comfortable with. Most conservatory bound kids have been logging a steady chunk of practice on a regular basis since childhood, anywhere from 3-5 hours per day. Once in the music program, performance majors will be expected to put in about 5 hours per day, sometimes 6. Since doing 6 hours usually covers 8 hours of the day (with breaks, lunch, answering the phone etc.) focusing on music performance demands everything of the student. </p>

<p>If your daughter isn’t going to be attending a summer music festival, perhaps she could take summer school. I especially recommend Boston University, College of Fine Arts, which has really good violin faculty. Summer school is not audition based and Boston is a great city full of music students at the various conservatories. She could dig in, and if she forges a good relationship, this could carry forward into acceptance later on. If not Boston, there may be other schools where she could try it on for size in the summer.</p>

<p>stringkeymom-</p>

<p>You hit the nail on the head with the levels going up and up. When my son was auditioning for the Juilliard pre college violin program, there was an 11 year old (in his words, definitely in prodigy mode) playing Wieniawski, and routinely they are playing Sibelius and such at that level, and it does keep rising. One of the things that is happening is that conservatories of all kind and music programs are starting to recognize reality, that given the nature of classical music for the past 30 years and what it looks like going forward, that there just isn’t that much room for all those they were graduating. Juilliard contracted the size of their college program starting back in the mid 90’s(we found a long article in 1994 that detailed what current president Joseph Pelosi, then still early in his tenure, did in terms of cutting down the size of the school) and the pre college at Juilliard likewise has been cut down in size significantly from what it once was, which has raised the level since there are a lot of students fighting for relatively few slots. Things a couple of years ago would have been considered acceptable levels of playing and repertoire today might not even be looked at. And I suspect, with the top level programs getting tougher, that the next tier schools are probably doing the same thing, since they can get the kids who though highly skilled, don’t make it into the top level programs, and so forth, I am sure it escalates down. </p>

<p>People talk about being a doctor being so hard, if they saw what kids heading into classical music face they would blanche.</p>

<p>I would also recommend UW - Madison. It is not at competitive as others on this list but has a solid program and a couple of excellent teachers.</p>

<p>Double-ditto shennie on U. Wisconsin which my son looked at very seriously. The building is a bit worn out, but the University is tops and the it’s in a great college town/city. Best of all there are three violin teachers there who are very good. It’s a bit of a hidden jewel for violinists.</p>

<p>musicprnt: yep! was chatting with a professional cellist whose daughter was playing in a chamber ensemble with my son the other day–she observed that the level of playing of the group (all seniors who had been accepted into conservatories) was more like the level of playing she remembered when graduating from conservatory, rather than at entry, but that this is what is now required. this generation of players has really had to strive hard. I think David Kim (cm of Phil orch) in that excellent documentary, “music from the inside out” commented that to get where he was in music was equivalent to being a nobelist in physics or medicine. i think only the kids and we parents are aware of how much hard work went into their conservatory acceptances.</p>

<p>Stringkeymom-</p>

<p>You are right on with that, having seen what it took for our son to get into the pre college program at Juilliard was an amazing learning experience, it even surprised a former school music teacher of our son whose husband teaches there and who has herself gotten students into the program in a different area about how hard it was, and that holds from what I hear at the other elite programs at all levels. A prior teacher of my son’s, who is a principal violinist in a pretty high level orchestra, said she didn’t get to the Mendelsohn until she was in conservatory at Oberlin, my son was playing that at 12…and compared to some that was considered late! And it just gets higher and higher as the programs cut back the numbers they admit, which means a lot of people auditioning for fairly few slots (the acceptance rate at Juilliard pre C is like the college level, it is less then 10% in most of the programs as far as I know). </p>

<p>And I agree with David Kim, it is like getting a PHD and a nobel prize to get to that kind of level, I could argue it might even be harder:)</p>

<p>musicprnt, when did your son graduate Juilliard precollege? Mine just graduated this spring. (He was even later with the Mendelssohn and Wieniawski, played those at 14–heard tell of a girl playing Mendelssohn at 10 wishing to be a soloist and being told by a prospective teacher, “too late for that”) </p>

<p>We know of very strong string players who–to widespread surprise on the part of teachers who had previously gotten kids into the program- did not get into the precollege due to the reduction in size of the program (one of them later got into regular Juilliard); I didn’t realize that regular Juilliard had also cut down the size of the program, but I do know that they took very few violinists this year and gave very little money (a few of the violinists we know of who were accepted to Juilliard chose to go elsewhere with larger financial aid packages).</p>

<p>I think you may be right–it is harder, since it requires a very early commitment and slaving as a child, where most Nobelists, even in medicine, might have had a freer childhood and done their graduate work at 23 instead of 13.</p>

<p>Back to the OP: the OP asked for the names of music schools, but many suggestions have been given of regular colleges and universities with good music departments. If the OP’s daughter wants to do that route, she should assess her academic potential and work from there.</p>