Hello all
I would like to hear from some recruited athletes that did not get into top schools where coaches do not have a big say in admissions. What were your test scores/resume and reasons you did not get in and what you would have done differently.
Thanks!
“Recruited athletes” never fail to be admitted because "coaches do not have a big say in admissions. Coaches have a certain number of slots they can fill. Those slots go to their recruits. The recruits, provided their academics -standardized test scores and GPA- meet the standards of the school, conference/league, and NCAA get admitted. Other students that the coaches might like to have enrolled, but do not get one of the coach’s slots are often rejected. They may think they were “recruited” given that the coach “said” they’d want them to be on the team, but they were not really “recruited” as the coach did not want them enough to give them one of the assigned recruit spots. Do coaches promise a slot and not deliver? Yes, that happens, but it is rare. At the Ivy’s, a low academic Index (SAT I, SAT II, GPA, Rank) can often throw a wrench in the process.
Thank you that makes sense! @tdy123
I think that is to a certain extent true, but not fully. There are schools (Chicago, MIT, and several non-NESCAC D3’s) where my understanding is that the coaches don’t have slots, or at least not ones that are the same as Ivy coaches. Those coaches submit a list to admissions of who they want, but don’t always get everyone.
For an Ivy or many other schools, you should know if you are safe or not based on the preread the coach gets. Be sure to ask.
My views relate to D3 athletic recruiting. If you go back through the threads over the years, you will find some each year for which it did not work out.
There are multiple reasons for this happening. First, there are schools where coaches don’t have much if any pull. @dadof4kids has mentioned a few. Second, there are misunderstandings between athlete and recruit. It is critical that the recruit ask very specific questions, like “how much pull do you have with admissions,” “where am I on your list of recruits,” “how often has a recruit at that point on your list been rejected,” and of course asking for and getting the results of a pre-read. Third, the last minute musical chairs of athletic recruiting could result in the no. 5 recruit getting bumped to no. 6 by a D1 level recruit wanting in. It is not a bad idea to keep in touch with the coach at reasonable intervals to make sure all systems are go. Fourth, a material change occurs in the recruit, such as injury, a precipitous drop in grades, a disciplinary issue. Additionally, there are a multitude of administrative snafus that can happen.
If athletic recruiting was a sure thing, the posters here would not recommend having a backup plan ready. Most of the recruits that have faced problems have ended up perfectly happy at an alternative college.
I disagree with @tdy123. It is very dangerous to assume that because a recruit meets certain objective criteria that he or she will be admitted to several high academic schools. In the Ivy League and the NESCAC, the two conferences most associated with high academic recruiting, there is indeed a formula that is set out by conference agreement which governs the circumstances under which athletic recruits are admitted. However, meeting the criteria set out in that agreement is in no way the same thing as being admitted to the school. At the end of the day, the recruit still has to pass an admissions committee, even as a supported recruit, and decision made by that committee are often made on criteria beyond the pure stats contained in the band system/academic index each school uses. This is a distinctly different process from that used at other high academic schools, at least in certain sports, where the athletic department is given control over a certain number of slots and can make the admissions decision on a recruit who satisfies criteria set out by the admissions committee. This is the process followed by Duke, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Michigan, etc. If you are being recruited by one of those schools and the coach says you are in, you are in. The Patriot League and Stanford fit somewhere in the middle, where the AD’s office has more control than the Ivy schools, but admissions still retains “veto power” as it were.
In addition to all of the above, there are several high academic D3 schools (like those mentioned by @dadof4kids above), where the level of support the athletic department can provide is even more amorphous than in the Ivy and NESCAC.
Of course, good coaches who have been in place for a while will have a sense of what types of recruits will face issues, and a history of how their recruits are treated by admissions. I do think it is fair to say that at most high academic schools, a supported recruit who has had an unqualifiedly positive pre read by admissions is very likely to be admitted.
Unfortunately though, when you are talking about high academic recruiting, it is not over until it is over. In the Ivy, that happens when the likely letter is issued. In the NESCAC and other D3s, you have to wait until the admissions decisions are released.
@Ohiodad51 sums it up perfectly
“you should know if you are safe or not based on the preread the coach gets”
^^^This. Barring a precipitous drop in grades, getting busted for plagiarism, cheating, drugs/alcohol or some other crime, if you’ve passed the pre-read you should be good. IMO, a coach probably would not continue to actively recruit a kid who does not pass a pre-read (though I can envision a “yellow light” – as opposed to “green light” – situation where the kid is on the line and is encouraged to bring up grades/scores).
U of Chicago is certainly a hectic and less than sure recruiting situation. A somewhat meaningless initial pre-read can be given(i.e. Green, Yellow, or Red light), but you actually have to apply before a coach can give you a meaningful response as to whether you can be an athletic recruit and play for him. Remains to be seen in S1’s case whether a response to his app is given BEFORE the ED deadline, allowing him to apply to his second choice in case U of C or the coach rejects his app. Certainly a process that is quirky, and not for the faint of heart.
Many other D3's are far more transparent. A pre-read is no absolute guarantee, but pretty close to that.
Colleges usually don't tell you why you didn't get in. It could be a bad GPA or essay, 60 time, size, etc..
I think certain Ivy coaches realize that they have some significant influence on the admissions committee for their slotted athletes but that they cannot make any guarantees. Even after a positive pre-read, it is still not a sure thing that a LL will be offered. LoR’s and personal essays and interview will all have an impact on the ultimate decision. Unfortunately, it’s never over until that LL pops up on your computer screen!
But what happens in a case like this? Suppose a coach is talking to 10 kids and does pre-reads for all. (Coaches must be talking to more kids than they need, because they don’t know how many will drop out or are more interested in other schools - right?) Of those 10, 7 pass the pre-read. Of those 7, 5 decide they are applying. But the coach only has 3 slots. What happens to the other 2?
Not sure about the non-Ivy schools, but for the non-revenue sport Ivy coaches, they will only offer to do a pre-read if they are willing to give you a verbal commitment for one of their recruitment slot. Without that “verbal commitment” none of the coaches were willing to do a preread. Once their slots were all filled with these verbally committed recruits, other athletes who approached them were told there were no more slots available. Unfortunately it seems like a game of musical chairs, so timing is also an essential factor.
Thanks @noanswers
If anyone has info on how it works with D3 - would love to hear
Noanswers is right on with regard to the Ivies. If the pre-read isn’t successful, the coach will move to the next person on the list, enter a verbal commitment with that kid, and have the kid go through the pre-read.
Kids with a shaky pre-read may continue with the application process if the coach allows, but it is right around this week of the year that they may learn that they aren’t getting a LL and won’t be admitted. Then the coach may try to find another kid to take that slot.
Getting and passing a pre read is very different than being a supported recruit. Coaches at all levels are doing far more pre reads than they have slots. The pre read is just a step in the process. It is not the end.
This is very much contrary to my experience and those of others I know or have corresponded with in a variety of sports in the Ivy. It is probably accurate to say that coaches are only doing pre reads on recruits who they are seriously considering supporting, but again the pre read is not a substitute for an offer of support, and more kids will have pre reads done then will receive offers.
In D3, if a coach says point blank that he is fully supporting you with admissions, he usually is. If he is somewhat vague, then he usually isn’t. The reason he doesn’t give an outright “no” in most cases, is because he is never completely sure exactly how many recruits will actually end up applying to his school, and how many will make it through the admissions process.
Thanks @57special
Most Ivy coaches will do a preliminary pre-read on their own, since they know from experience what is historically needed to get their athletes recruited and accepted. So when the athletes make their initial contact with the coaches with their athletic and academic stats, a “pre”-preread is done to weed out the ones who will most likely not make the official pre-read. But the official pre-reads are done in the summer by the admissions liaison on athletes whom they’ve offered one of their recruitment slots. If a “red-light” is given, then they move on to their next in line.
I think asking how it works in D3 is far too broad a question. There are a multitude of variations between and within leagues. In general, however, coaches have lists submitted to admissions and their priorities appear on that list. As a general matter, the higher up you are on the list, the better off you will be. Is there a point at which the coach’s influence with admissions stops? Absolutely. Are there disappointed applicants who thought they were on or higher up on the list. Absolutely. If you are talking about a NESCAC school, the other 2 in your example might well become tips receiving a boost in admission. There are other schools where the coach has a list of 10-15 recruits, but his or her influence with admissions stops to any significant degree with the third recruit. There are still other schools where the coach out and out has little influence with admissions.
That is why it is critical that the recruit ask the important questions of the coach before applying.
My experience with D3 in my D’s sport (and I’m talking about NESCACs) is that they evaluate the kid junior year and then in late June start the pre-read on several kids. On July 1, they offer verbal commitments to the kids that passed the pre-reads until they fill their slots. That process probably takes until July 10. Then those kids apply ED and almost always get in unless their essays or letters of recommendation stink.
This is different from Ivies and top academic non-Ivies because those schools often make verbal offers way before the pre-read, such as in 9th grade.