<p>^Yes, she said that "hip and happening" were not what most people associate with Ohio. But, you can't go around the rest of your life taking offense at every person who thinks Ohio is less than hip and happening. That could add up to a lot of people. Is that really your disagreement with Carolyn? You're saying that Delaware, Ohio is just as hip and happening as Portland, Oregon?</p>
<p>Peter05 has commented on how liberal & bohemian that part of Ohio is. But the thing is, you can live in the most bohemian cool part of Ohio, and it still would not be at all like Portland or the west coast. That's not to say it's bad, but there, values and norms are different, and the deviation from the norm is FAR more pronounced in Portland, or in much of the west coast. If you have not spent large periods of time in both places, that might not be immediately apparent. (I have several close friends who are Ohioan transplants to the west coast, from the "bohemian" areas of Ohio, no less.)</p>
<p>No, I do not think OWU and Reed are anything alike, in feel. I don't know anyone who is familar with both of them who considers them to be alike. Reed has a very specific kind of culture and feel, and OWU simply isn't like that. Several people have tried to explain why. I can understand if you have only read about one and experienced the other, you might get the sense that they're sort of the same, but they are very distinct.</p>
<p>johnwesley,</p>
<p>again, thank you for taking the time to read my message. as i pointed out before and without wanting to sound like a broken record, there are other points that carolyn made and i disagreed with. do take a look at those when your busy schedule allows it and feel free to post then. thank you for your time!</p>
<p>Peter, you're going to have to cut and paste what you are referring to.</p>
<p>peter05-one of the things the original poster asked was to describe the culture. Unless you have visited both schools, I don't think anyone is an expert at describing one school over the other other using statistics only. When I was a junior in hs, I thought Reed was going to be the only school I wanted to apply to. That was based solely on public information, their website and what I could find out about their reputation from others. Then late in my junior year I started to looka t other schools based on my parents advice. Living in the midwest, a tour of Ohio schools was easy to accomplish so I looked at all of them, OWU, Denison, Oberlin, Wooster etc.. I also visited Reed and others in the west. While I was not overly interested in any of the Ohio schools I looked at, I was even less interested in Reed after the visit. I felt something was missing FOR ME. I felt the Reed student body was too homogenous for me. My parents gave me good advice. Since most of the schools I was interested in were similiar enough academically, all with great opportunities, they had me make a decision to apply to schools where I would be happy for four years. The point of this message is that w/o stepping foot on a campus no student can actually tell if they will "fit" or be happy. At some point, a kid gets a viscerael emotional reaction when they find the right place. No amount of advice on these boards will be able to get that across. OWU is lucky to have as happy an alum as you are and you had a great experince there. You are lucky. I was lucky too, I got the reaction I was looking for when I visited Colorado College..and am a happy freshman. Take a break from trying to make your point because on some level you start to lose credibility. Everything you say is right on as you have experienced it, but everyone doesn't see things the same way.</p>
<p>johnwesley, i would be more than glad to forward the pasted portion of her message that i was referring to in a private message. </p>
<p>flyboy, some things related to the original question of student make-up and culture, are not a matter of perspective, which was precisely the point of my earlier message. for example, international diversity and geographic representation of the student body. for example neighborhood aspects of columbus that another person qualified (that she could have easily avoided if she was even remotely familiar with that part of ohio). </p>
<p>another reed poster mentioned that he actually knows only 25 students and the his familiarity with the school is based on among other things, "sending in web site mistakes". this is laughable to rely on. the aspects of the colleges that might be different, we can refer to verifiable data to compare them against. </p>
<p>on your more general point about credibility: one does not lose credibility by arguing with good data and sources (am I off in thinking this way?); one might lose credibility, however, with statements that rely on 20-year-old data, by saying that he doesn't know more 25 students, and relying on impressions only. </p>
<p>i really do appreciate you taking the time to comment on this. i do encourage you to avoid non-constructive criticism. i don't think there is anything wrong in disagreeing with others. enjoy the rest of your afternoon.</p>
<p>Peter05--when was the last time you visited Reed? I also think you are confusing the original poster's question of student culture vs student demographics...demographics can be supported with the statisitcs..when it come to a college campus, culture is something you can only feel by visiting.</p>
<p>Collegehopeful..hope you can sift through all the garbage here and make some decisions. In my own very personal opinion, I thought both schools lacked the beautiful facilities that some other LAC's have like Hamilton, Middlebury, Colby, Bowdoin and a slew of others. At both of these schools that was one of my major reasons for not applying. Don't make any semi-permanent life decisions w/o the benfit of a visit.</p>
<p>Peter,
I am sorry that your loyalty to your alma mater has blinded you to intelligent discussion on the very real differences between these two schools. </p>
<p>As I said in my original post, they are both great places, but very different. Anyone who can't see the differences isn't looking hard enough, hasn't visited both schools, or is simply trolling for their alma mater. </p>
<p>I also regret that you feel it is necessary to attack me for pointing out the very real and obvious differences, which, by the way, are based on very recent visits to both colleges and extensive discussions with students, alumni, and admissions representatives from both schools. Just out of curiousity: how much time have you, personally, spent on the Reed campus? </p>
<p>Finally, I found it amusing that you appear to think I have some sort of vendetta against the entire state of Ohio. I have visited Ohio many times, and actually LIKE Ohio a great deal. I also frequently recommend colleges in Ohio - including OWU - to students. </p>
<p>In any case, since you obviously have a personal vendetta against ME, I will refrain from further comment. Good luck to you in your future endeavors, including the further personal attack on me I know will result from this reply.</p>
<p>dear carolyn,</p>
<p>i have nothing against you. you tout yourself as an excellent counselor. I am sure that you are, yet I was amazed that you simply provided incorrect information. i am sorry that you felt that i attacked you. i prefer to think of it as questioning your statements. Is that not a fair game? If you don't like me questioning, then I sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings.</p>
<p>you structured your post in five general areas of: (1) greek life, (2) political leanings, (3) athletic program, (4) academics, (5) geography. </p>
<p>In my response, I asked you to justify the following claims: </p>
<p>(1) "At OWU, you will fiind mostly very nice but very middle of the road students"</p>
<p>(2) "OWU has a very active athletic program"</p>
<p>(3) "OWU has its honors program and its freshman tutorials, but these are a watered down version of the intense expectations Reed has for its students"</p>
<p>(4) "Nothing wrong with Ohio, but I don't think anyone thinks "hip and happening" when they hear "Ohio."</p>
<p>You never responded to where these came from (to me they seemed to have come from either old data or out of thin air). If you want to be a bit more rigorous with the argument, these are statements that you can use actual data for than saying "Oh, well, Anyone who can't see the differences isn't looking hard enough, hasn't visited both schools." Is that what a college counselor should say to prove a point? I provided you with data on the political leanings, specific "hip and happening" parts of CMH and the academic program. Counter them, please. </p>
<p>Of course any two schools are going to have their differences. That's not a point anyone would ever argue. I just think that if you are going to point out differences between OWU and Reed, you should do your careful research, then make claims as opposed to speaking from memorized impressions.</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to respond. I greatly appreciate your time even though I strongly disagree with your opinion.</p>
<p>Peter,
You really are taking my comments out of context. How often have you visited Reed? I find it hard to believe that if you have visited both campuses, and spent any time at all on them, you would be arguing so strongly that the campus culture and student bodies of these two fine schools are mirror images of each other. (For that matter, I find it hard to believe that anyone who has spent time in Portland and Delaware, Ohio would be saying they are mirror images of each other)</p>
<p>Again, I think they are both great institutions (and both places also have their charms), but each tends to feel "more right" to a different type of student. As a college counselor, I always tell students to pay attention to their instinct about where they feel most at home. </p>
<p>I know you don't agree with me, but there are real differences between these schools in terms of campus and social culture. A student looking for athletics and a Greek scene won't find it at Reed. A student who has an alternative lifestyle or alternative views (and I'm not talking about voting for John Kerry) or wants to stay up late debating Orvid with more than one or two other students, probably won't find OWU a good fit. Similarly, how comfortable, really, would most OWU students be parading naked during freshman Orientation week or smoking dope at Renn Fayre? </p>
<p>The differences between these schools are apparent the minute you walk on campus and only become more obvious the more time you spend on each campus. Additionally, take a close look at the educational approaches of each school -- look at the reading list for Reed's required freshman Hum 110 seminar, or the requirements for its senior thesisAs I said, I think they both offer a great education, but the educational approaches of both schools are very different. Just take a look at the reading list for Reed's required freshman Hum 110 seminar, or the requirements for its senior thesis. If you can point to a similar requirement at Ohio Wesleyan, then perhaps I can understand why you feel they are so similar.</p>
<p>However, I want to make it absolutely clear: I would never hesitate to tell students that they can get a great education at both of these great schools, or hundreds of others. That really IS true. But, each institution (not just Reed and OWU) offers a different EXPERIENCE, and it is important to understand how that experience will differ between colleges in order to find the best match for individual students.</p>
<p>dear carolyn,</p>
<p>i very much appreciate your quick response. i do agree with your penchant for a "gut feeling". but a gut feeling is a nebulous concept that means different things to different people. your original post was using a much stronger language. "OWU has its honors program and its freshman tutorials, but these are a watered down version of the intense expectations Reed has for its students." how am I to interpret words such as "watered down version"? how would you even know? is that based on "gut feeling"? please, if i said something out of context, contextualize it for me. </p>
<p>i did visit reed several times over the course of two years. of course, i agree that OWU and Reed have their big differences. however, i don't agree that they are the differences that you pointed out. </p>
<p>strangely enough, you did not engage in any of the specific four bullet points above. why? </p>
<p>again, i very much appreciate your time and quick feedback.</p>
<p>OK, as an alumnus, you are obviously more knowledgable about OWU students. So, perhaps I have missed something during my visits. In answer to your points above, perhaps you could point me to some answers about the questions below.</p>
<p>(1) "At OWU, you will fiind mostly very nice but very middle of the road students"</p>
<p>Honestly, would most OWU students feel comfortable parading naked during freshman orientation week? With the crazy off the wall zaniness of Renn Fayre? How open are OWU students about alternative life styles and alternative points of view(and I don't consider voting for John Kerry an alternative point of view, or even a particularly liberal one. :) ) Does OWU sell school sweatshirts in its bookstore that say "Ohio Wesleyan. Atheism, communism, free love" If so, I must have missed them.</p>
<p>(2) "OWU has a very active athletic program"</p>
<p>Reed has NO varsity athletic program. Are you saying that OWU has no varsity athletic program? That's news to me. Maybe someone should tell the admissions department so they can remove the homecoming pictures from the website.</p>
<p>(3) "OWU has its honors program and its freshman tutorials, but these are a watered down version of the intense expectations Reed has for its students"</p>
<p>Please go to Reed's website and do a search for the reading list for Hum 110, the required freshman course at Reed. Then, read up on the requirements for Reed's thesis. Or, perhaps during your visit you went up into the thesis tower and read some Reed theses so you are already familiar with them. How about Reed's requirement that all seniors pass a comprehensive exam in their subject area before being allowed to enter their senior year. Again, perhaps I am mistaken and OWU has similar requirements for ALL students, not just those in the honors program. Enlighten me. </p>
<p>(4) "Nothing wrong with Ohio, but I don't think anyone thinks "hip and happening" when they hear "Ohio."</p>
<p>I can't argue with you on this one. Obviously, in your view, Ohio is quite hip and happening and Delaware is a hidden gem of culture. I'll take your word for it. By the way, what's the independent music scene like in Delaware?</p>
<p>wesleyan is just as good as reed...i'm talking about the 'real' wesleyan in connecticut :)</p>
<p>Now that's a comparison that's worthy of consideration, both on the academic and the student culture side. I would have put Wes into the "colleges like Reed" group on that other thread, along with Oberlin, Grinnell, Beloit, Bard, and a few others. Of course, none of these schools is exactly like any of the others. But they have some basic similarities for those who want to do comparison shopping.</p>
<p>OWU is not like Reed, but Beloit is? A school that's even less selective than OWU and has student body features more like other Midwestern LACs? You gotta be kidding me...</p>
<p>Which schools are like others is quite subjective, and varies from list to list. E.g., this is Lawrence University's official peer group (a few schools publish an "official" list):</p>
<p>Bates, Beloit, Carleton, Wooster, Denison, Dickinson, Gettysburg, Grinnell, Hamilton, Hampshire, Smith, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Knox, Macalester, Oberlin, Occidental, Pitzer, Reed, Rhodes, Ripon, St. Olaf, Whitman.</p>
<p>Similarly, as peers, these schools list Beloit and Reed, but not OWU:</p>
<p>Puget Sound, Earlham, Lake Forest, Macalester</p>
<p>It's really tedious to gather this info via Google, but if there's a list which includes OWU and Reed, I didn't find it.</p>
<p>vossron, </p>
<p>The Princeton Review lists the following peer schools based on cross-applicationt's data:</p>
<p>For OWU: Denison University, Depauw University, Kenyon College, Oberlin College, Reed College, College of Wooster, Wittenberg</p>
<p>For Reed: Knox College, Lawrence University, Lewis and Clark College, Oberlin College, Pomona College, Swarthmore College, Willamette University. </p>
<p>I've only selected the LACs on the PR list. </p>
<p>Do you know how Princeton Review methodology was developed?</p>
<p>Thanks. Other than, as you say, using cross-application data, I do not know, but maybe I'm about to find out ...</p>
<p>Reed and OWU comparison</p>
<p>From OWU web site and for Reed from College Board </p>
<pre><code> Ohio Wesleyan Reed
</code></pre>
<p>GPA average 3.3 95% above 3.25</p>
<p>State from Ohio 53% from Oregon 7 %</p>
<p>Top 10%
of HS Class 30% 67%</p>
<p>Top 25%
of HS Class 52% 89%</p>
<p>Average ACT 24-29 28-32</p>
<p>Average SAT 1100-1320 1280-1460</p>
<p>AP Credit any 4 depends on dept
could be a 4 or 5</p>
<p>OWU is a good school, but it is not comparable to Reed as the above factual data clearly shows.</p>
<p>Others have posted about the uniquely individualistic mature of some of Reed students. OWU students are primarily from Ohio and from the above data appear to be good students with fine records in HS, as a general statement.</p>
<p>In the interests of full disclosure to anyone seeking clarity on this question:</p>
<p>Princeton Review has a listing of schools that persons viewing the profile of OWU have also looked at (not applied, but merely looked at) these other colleges.</p>
<p>The 20 schools listed include 6 LAC's, 8 state Universities and 6 private universities. The states included Florida, Utah, Arizona, North Carolina, California (3), Penn (2),New York, Ohio (8), Oregon.</p>
<p>BTW on the College board Site they list 15 schools that were viewed by persons who also viewed Ohio Wesleyan. One of the 15 schools was Harvard.</p>
<p>I quess we can expect to hear now that Harvard has been viewed by some persons viewing OWU that OWU is now comparable to Harvard.</p>
<p>For the record on the college Board site the schools viewed by persons viewing Reed are listed these schools:</p>
<p>Boston Univ., Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Lewis & Clark (another Oregon school), New York Univ., Oberlin, Stanford, Tufts, Vassar, U of Calif at Berkeley, U. of Chicago, and Yale.</p>