Regret Attending Law School?

Graduate School Law School
21

<p>Making over 50k a year to start in an entry level job after college isn’t anywhere close to unheard of, as you seem to imply.</p>

<p>Several friends of mine that majored in liberal arts back in college are now doing IT-related work at firms such as Accenture or Deloitte, as IT consultants. Their starting comp was 65-70k a year, not including bonus. I know some others working in back-office jobs at banks, namely operations. They make decent money, too. </p>

<p>Some jobs pay over 100k for people fresh out of school, namely I-banking or strategy consulting. My I-banking friends tell me that over 90% of their job is to do data entry into pre-made excel templates (aka excel “modeling”) or making powerpoint slide decks for pitching to potential clients. Bottom line is that these jobs require very little intellectual horsepower, nor any real skills/ experience, yet they pay very handsomely. Again, the hard part is actually getting the job in the first place.</p>

<p>Also, quite frankly, it isn’t that hard to make 50k a year even without a college degree. Some people who manage retail branches make six figures. Heck, many of plumbers, auto repair mechanics, or electricians make more than 50k a year.</p>

<p>Agreed with your point that more education =/= monetary or career success. I believe that a huge chunk of students are better off not attending college in the first place. If someone isn’t very talented academically, and the best (s)he can do is to attend a no-name state school and major in a non-marketable subject such as political science or biology, that person is facing a tremendous uphill battle to land a decent job that would lead to a career. </p>

<p>I say that there is a huge problem in this society, encouraging everyone to attend a college, and the fact that too many colleges exist in the first place. There are 17 million college grads in the U.S. that work in dead-end retail jobs. Think about all the resources, time, money, and efforts wasted in pursuing education that didn’t return any returns, for such a large number of people. People need to take the equation of supply vs demand more seriously.</p>

22

<p>Yes, I regret attending law school. However, I also regret majoring in chemical engineering undergrad.</p>

<p>However, I may just deeply hate having to work. I’m considering that as a possibility.</p>

<p>I have no debt and plenty of cash, so this is not a financially-colored complaint.</p>

<p>I wonder if I should have gotten a Ph.D. in biostatistics or something.</p>

<p>I’m still not sure what I’m good at or what my strengths actually are and I’m 38, having practiced law for 12 years.</p>

23

<p>JonLaw: why do you regret the chem-e degree? (Just wondering - I didn’t regret getting mine, although nothing could have made me do a Ph.D. in it.)</p>

<p>NYULawStudent: for heaven’s sake, I’m a thirty-something attorney with educational credentials to match your own and work experience that leaves you in the dust, not some high school kid heading to Podunk U who needs the world explained to her. </p>

<p>You can argue anecdotes all day long, or argue the exceptions to the rule (e.g. investment bankers), but overwhelming salary data shows that recent college graduates with no specific skill sets are lucky to land any job, let alone one that pays north of $45k a year. Recent. College. Graduates. Got those three words? Because that group is the original subject of this discussion and the subject of my salary data.</p>

<p>Beyond that, your counterpoints are proving my point - that you can earn a decent salary doing a host of things, provided you learn a skill set and/or spend time moving up the ladder. Your counter-examples - electricians, retail managers, etc. - are all people who are not B.A.s fresh out of school with a mini-van of their college possessions; they are working people. You’ve done nothing to disprove my statement that it’s hard to earn the median household income straight out of college, nor my belief that working for a few years will rectify that situation. You certainly have not explained why it’s a bad idea to, at worst, learn an industry before starting law school, so that knowledge of that industry can be leveraged into a post-law-school-graduation job.</p>

24

<p>Attaching some numbers to this discussion: [Average</a> Salary With A Bachelor’s Degree](<a href=“http://education-portal.com/articles/Average_Salary_With_A_Bachelors_Degree.html]Average”>Average Salary With A Bachelor's Degree)</p>

<p>Yep, almost all of those require a B.S. degree, and all above $50k require one.</p>

25

<p>no, i don’t regret going to law school. maybe get back to me in 10 years when i am a burnt out and disillusioned attorney.</p>

26

<p>@ariesathena:</p>

<p>“JonLaw: why do you regret the chem-e degree? (Just wondering - I didn’t regret getting mine, although nothing could have made me do a Ph.D. in it.)”</p>

<p>I think that it had a lot to do with being stuck in engineering because of my scholarship while really having no underlying interest in engineering.</p>

<p>So, I don’t regret having the degree as much as I wish that I had been able to use the five years I spent getting the degree doing something else.</p>

27

<p>Love law school and I think it is one of the best choices I’ve ever made. As a soon to be graduate I wouldn’t do anything else. Although I also wouldn’t ever pay 200k to go to law school either. I go to school on full scholarship plus living stipend and that may play into why I like law school so much. I got into a higher ranked school but being debt free was more important to me.</p>

28

<p>I loved law school but didn’t like practicing law. There are no similarities between the two.</p>

29

<p>I agree completely; the practice of law is completely different than law school.</p>

30

<p>ariesathena,</p>

<p>I, too, am engineering-educated. I graduate in 2015 with degrees in chemical engineering and English. I’m starting to weigh just how wonderful these degrees can be in the corporate sector without going to law school and adding on debt. I truly think I would like being a lawyer, because I’ve always felt that I would be one. But I think there is a chance that I can find meaningful work outside of law, at least until this insane sticker price reduces a little. Luckily, I still have time to get an internship at the USPTO and another internship in engineering to really seal the deal. </p>

<p>But if I really like my internship at the USPTO next summer and end up not liking my engineering internship, what would you suggest?</p>

31

<p>“But if I really like my internship at the USPTO next summer and end up not liking my engineering internship, what would you suggest?”</p>

<p>Take the patent bar when you graduate.</p>

<p>If you end up at law school, it will be a nice addition to your resume, and it’s best to do all the studying before the stress of law school or lawyering. </p>

<p>If you don’t end up at law school, you might be able to find a job in-house at an engineering firm, writing their patents, or (if you get a masters and/or a PhD), as “counsel” in a law firm. You don’t need to be an attorney to draft and prosecute patents or to work in the USPTO as a patent examiner.</p>

<p>Also, by 2015, the legal industry may have changed a lot. Law school may go down in price. We’ll have a better idea of how law firms are hiring new associates, what job opportunities are available, and how much people are making.</p>

32

<p>I’m starting to consider not going to law school unless I pay under 50,000 out-of-pocket. My potential dream job is not worth 100-200k in debt. What I think I may do, if I pass the patent bar, is work as a patent agent. Even if that is as far as I ever take my career, I will still be working in the subject matter that I will hopefully enjoy, and around other lawyers. But no dream job is worth the debt that schools are asking for now. It’s ridiculous. </p>

<p>I’ll either go to a lower-ranked law school with scholarship, assuming I know I want to enter patent/IP law. Otherwise, I won’t go to law school and will take my chances as an engineer or a patent examiner/patent agent for the first 1-10 years after graduating undergrad.</p>

33

<p>I dont regret going to law school - I am fortunate that I knew very early on about my desire to practice law (in HS) and deliberately chose a state university for undergrad to minimize my overall student loan debt. I graduated from a Tier 2 NYC law school in 2001 (I turned down higher ranked law schools out of state to stay at home and save money) and was very fortunate to land an entry level attorney job right away (2 months post-grad) and now earn 6 figures as staff counsel (worked my way up through different firms). I paid off all my student loans a few months ago. No regrets but I do know that the situation is very different now. The same firms that hired me after law school with crappy grades will not even interview students from my law school and now prefers new attorneys from Fordham, BC, BU, NYU, etc. I see many new lawyers working for free, or working for very low wages (under $40K/year) while carrying 6 figure student loan debt. </p>

<p>This is a problem, and new law students should think carefully about how much they want to practice law. A law degree should not be viewed as just an extension of a 4 year college degree or as a “flexible” degree to have in case the practice of law doesnt “work out”. Unless you want to be an academic, or have the credentials to attend a Top 5 law school where your options are slightly better for using the JD to launch into consulting, politics, business, etc - a JD is really meant for people who choose to actually work as attorneys. I know many classmates from my BLS graduating class who came out with $100K debt, took on jobs at small firms paying $45-65K/year only to realize after a few years they hated it and decided to switch into other careers (in fact, another friend of mine who is a Hofstra Law 2003 grad is now entering a Nursing program at NCCC/Stony Brook because she just could not find a stable legal job in 2 years after being downsized from a mid sized real estate law firm). </p>

<p>As long you have a way to minimize that student loan burden and are prepared to understand all the pros/cons of practicing law - you should be ok. Too many students go into law school never knowing what a real attorney does day in and day out, or not understanding that even taking on a dream job at the ACLU that pays $45K/year is not feasible if they must service $100K+ in debt.</p>