<p>Hi guys,
I am a Junior applying next year. Need some advice. Reviewing the class profile that Cornell gives out, it looks like there is a lot of admits to athletes and legacy. If most of those admits are from early decision, which I guess seems right, then getting admitted early for an unconnected applicant seems like super hard. Is early that much harder to get admitted than regular if you are not an athlete or have hooked alumni parents that contribute. Cornell shows their class profile for every year and that is why I am thinking that based on that it must be a lot easier to get in regular if you have no athletic connection.
Can someone check this web page and do the math and tell me what you think.
<a href="http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf</a></p>
<p>That seems really fishy. I don’t see why they’d do that when they could just send early LL’s to those applicants.</p>
<p>Early Decision is actually easier to get into because it shows that Cornell is your number one choice. You are fully obligated, if accepted, to attend Cornell the following year and there are penalties if you do not (barring that a financial agreement can not be met). If you look at the breakdown the percent of applicants admitted actually increases for Early Decision applicants. That being said only apply early decision if you are absolutely convinced Cornell is your number 1 choice and where you should be spending four (or more) years of your life.</p>
<p>New account, check.
Same conspiracy theory as the one mentioned by the said ■■■■■ in the other post, check.
You’ve made this thread several times now and it is clear that early decision is better in terms of chances numerically and logically- there is no reason for Cornell to not reward those who show more interest in the school to engage themselves in a binding contract.
Byebye ■■■■■.</p>
<p>Oh, and I know many, many kids who got in early unhooked and aren’t the brightest. Does that answer your question? /Endthread</p>
<p>I would appreciate it if you stopped giving false information to prospective students and undergrads alike and let them actually understand something from these posts, englandern. You are pretty infamous around here.</p>
<p>Colene, thank you for the quick reply. I say the best source of information is Cornell University itself, not a web site like this. False information will not help anybody and is not fair to post that here, I agree. But look at cornell’s profile that they give out.
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf</a>
Not all of the about 700 athletes / legacy admitted are part of the 1227 total early admits. but a lot probably are athletes and legacy.
Even if ed has a higher acceptance rate, which is kind of obvious, if so many getting in ED are athletes and legacy, it seems that for a standard applicant like me without that kind of factor, it is much - much harder to get in early to cornell university.
You are a smart student if you are at cornell.<br>
I would rely on cornell’s numbers. No one except cornell knows exactly how many of the early acceptances have that kind of “hook”.<br>
I do agree than that cornell likes taking someone early; there is a showing that it is the first choice. the question is looking at cornell’s own numbers (not something here on this web site) I am thinking that for a typical applicant getting in regular may be much easier than early, based on Cornell’s numbers.<br>
And I am not a ■■■■■ and never posted here except the post above.
Believe it or not, I have a life - girls, sports, no time to be a ■■■■■ - whatever that is…
Chill.</p>
<p>I didn’t want to do this before (because this would take me time and I care about my time/didn’t want to deal with ■■■■■■) but I have to point out the false assumption behind your argument. When you use data to support your argument, at least read it over first and see what it’s saying.</p>
<p>You are assuming that all of the kids that got in and whose parents went to cornell applied ED to cornell. That is obviously NOT the case. Not all of the parents gave their kids good impressions of Cornell for them to ED it, kids may simply not have Cornell as their first choice, and they may simply not like the idea of being put into a binding contract and possibly lose out on financial aid.</p>
<p>Also, the kids who apply via ED tend to have less in terms of stats / qualification than RDers, and overall accepted numbers are generally lower too in terms of test scores and GPA. Doesn’t it make sense for people of weaker credentials to apply ED to maximize their chances into one top college rather than risk it with RD? If two schools have the same % of applicants admitted but one has an sat/gpa average about 200 points lower than the other, then obviously the one with the higher average is more selective. The same argument would go with ED/RD, except in the case of ED, more EDers are still accepted percentage-wise even if you take out the athletes and probably the legacies as well. To sum it up for ED, the applicant pool is simply weaker as a whole than the RD pool and even if the acceptance percentages were comparable (which it isn’t, as legacy admits are pretty spread out on the RD pool as well - so you have to subtract it from that and then compare) - ED is simply easier because you are competing with a less competitive bunch of people overall.</p>
<p>As I said before, there is no reason for Cornell to not reward those who show more interest in the school to engage themselves in a binding contract. This is basic common sense. At the very worst if Cornell gets a very big and overly competitive ED pool in one year (hasn’t happened yet), a qualified applicant would simply be deferred for regular. It would not really hurt you if Cornell is your first choice, because when they look at your application status again later in the RD pool, they know that you applied ED to Cornell and since that implies that Cornell would be your first choice anyway, they would be more likely to accept you seeing that you like Cornell and would be more willing to enroll in Cornell (thereby increasing the yield, which Cornell WANTS. ED is a surefire way for Cornell to accept students who would contribute to the yield.)</p>
<p>By the way, if anyone needs to chill, it’s you - you really have no business on this forum. If you got rejected ED to cornell several years ago and are still feeling bitter about it, vent it somewhere else instead of plaguing this forum indefinitely and misleading other students with the copious amount of free time that you have. Do something productive.</p>
<p>As for why I’m saying you are the ■■■■■ englandern, just looking at your nauseating methods of provocation/sentence structure/topic led me to this from an earlier time: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1080974-cornell-rd-easier-than-ed-admission-unhooked.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1080974-cornell-rd-easier-than-ed-admission-unhooked.html</a>
Please find something else better to do.</p>
<p>Actually I go back on you being englandern. He wasn’t quite as bad as you. You’re probably that newtroll we have spamming the biology thread. You just took his point and took his obnoxiousness to another level.</p>
<p>As a side note, no high school senior about to apply to cornell (and especially juniors) would make a thread like this or know/care enough about the admissions process to worry about such nitty-gritty details in the admission process or know about the Cornell factbook/ talk about it in such a conspiratorial way. They have other things to do. You aren’t interested in applying here, and we have no need for your conspiracy theories. I and others on the board want to give those that are qualified and interested in applying to cornell the best chance that they can get - you are doing a disservice by misleading them and taking that chance away from them.</p>
<p>tl;dr - cornell would have no reason to make ED (binding and showing definite interest, definitively increase class yield; higher in % accepted, lower in admitted students stats, less financial aid=lower cost to sponsor every student) harder than RD (nonbinding and not showing definite interest, some of the applicants who just apply to cornell simply because its an ivy without knowing its particular strengths and may be noncommittal)</p>
<p>You know a lot about cornell and thanks for the info. I was only looking for some analysis of the data that cornell released, that’s it, nothing else. but thanks for replying, redeploying and editing to give info on this subject. You are lucky to go to cornell and I hope to one day study engineering there. I just wish I cold figure out if early or regular is the better chance.
Anyway, thanks.
By the way,
not from England - not even close. actually, the Big Apple, NYC - Bronx Science, a Public Magnet. We got in 5 early to cornell this year, 4 engineering and one ecology college.
I didn’t say all ed applicants are legacy or athletes. but it is probably more than 1/2 of the athletes and legacy that got in I think. but I am not sure.
The only thing I know for sure is cornell’s own numbers. I don’t think they would mess with numbers.
I am very interested in Cornell and will probably be doing a summer program there this summer if my parents can afford it.
I think everyone should go by what they think is right, not opinions on web sites.
I read so many chance threads, but could never chance someone because anyone can always have a chance. No conspiracy. And definitely not going to major in biology, cornell or wherever I go. I think Cornell and Columbia are the two schools I am most interested in for studying engineering, but I think I am ready to get out of the city for a few years.<br>
I like college confidential and ******* for info on checking out colleges, but I think the best and most accurate info comes from the school itself. Not everyone is as honest as you in trying to help.
From the students you have met who study engineering, do you know if they were most early decision applicant?
I do thank you a lot for your information and being helpful.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that the stated ED acceptance rate is actually lower than what is really true. Some of the ED candidates are deferred and then admitted RD, so the acceptance rate of ED candidates is actually slightly higher than the one we see.</p>
<p>I don’t know too many engineers, but those that I do know, about half got in ED and half RD.</p>
<p>Common Wisdom is that ED is somewhat easier than RD. No one really knows what “somewhat” means, though almost everyone agrees that if you’re not qualified, it won’t matter when you apply.</p>
<p>What we don’t know is whether there the ED pools and the RD pools are the same, or whether the standard is different.</p>
<p>My bottom line – I was accepted at Cornell ED … Oh not quite 40 years ago (ouch). Back then, we were debating whether ED was harder or easier, and we really don’t KNOW more now than we did then. </p>
<p>If you’re a competitive candidate AND Cornell is your absolute #1 choice AND you’re reasonably sure you’ll be able to afford it, it’s worth applying this way. If not, you shouldn’t. It’s probably not worth trying to game the system.</p>
<p>Lots of highly unqualified kids apply RD and loads of extremely qualified kids apply ED. In the end, if you can’t get in RD (not even waitlisted) you weren’t going to get in ED.</p>
<p>… No, that isn’t true. This was precisely what the entire thread was about. Otherwise there would be absolutely no reason for admissions to espouse an ED for people who specifically really want to go to Cornell. The idea is that in return for binding yourself to Cornell via ED and losing out potentially on the aid/ scholarships that RDers get/ get bribed by (for Cornell to increase yield), you have a better chance of getting in. If you ever, ever visit Cornell, they tell you simply that you have a better chance at getting in ED because you are saying that Cornell is your first choice and you are giving away your other potential acceptances (if you ever ask them the question). And it’s typically kids with weaker credentials that apply ED - the program is sort of made for that. </p>
<p>Think about it this way: If you were really qualified and you are sure you would get in RD anyways, why would you need to put yourself in a binding contract and maybe lose out on the other goodies? You wouldn’t. It’s for people with hooks/weaker credentials that want to show that Cornell is your first choice and that you are willing to disadvantage yourself to show it. Or, maybe you just aren’t too secure about your standing at Cornell and decide to ED - that works too. If you were qualified at all when you applied ED and they somehow (by chance or luck) simply can’t take that many people, the very worst thing that can happen to you is that you get deferred, in which case you get another shot via RD with the bonus that you showed interest by applying ED. That doesn’t hurt, right?</p>
<p>Oh and Cornell accepted 0 people from its waitlist for the past 2-3 years - don’t wait for it.</p>
<p>“AND you’re reasonably sure you’ll be able to afford it”</p>
<p>This is generally not an ED consideration if you’re asking for financial aid. If a school does not offer enough to enable attendance, you say thanks but no thanks and apply RD elsewhere. Consider the absurd alternative that they don’t offer enough, somehow compel attendance, then expel when the bill can’t be paid.</p>
<p>When my son applied to Cornell, their literature directly stated that you do get a bit more consideration applying ED. eHow much more? Who knows? The stats give you some idea but do not take into account the caliber of the ED candidates vs the RD crowd. But it is their claim that they do five a little to RD. Also, Cornell meets 100%$ of need so that does not come into the picture in terms of getting more or less financial aid. The problem arises if their definition of need and yours does not mesh and you have to ask to be released from the commitment. That can be a pain since ED acceptances are shared among a bunch of colleges and you would have to make sure your RD apps don’t get automatically flushed. Also, my feeling is that colleges do not look kindly on those who back out of ED commitments, so if they find out, it could affect the way they look at your app.</p>
<p>The loss doesn’t technically come out of financial aid. It comes out of potential scholarships/programs that you get into. I have yet to hear of any EDers receive any special programs such as presidential scholar, Tanner’s, etc.</p>
<p>@ vonlost</p>
<p>The phrase ‘reasonably sure you can afford it’ was carefully chosen.</p>
<p>I believe the ED decision program specifically states that you can turn down an offer if you can’t afford it. And when you come right down to it, they can’t make you come. However, it gets dicey when a school meets demonstrated need and the student dishonors an ED offer.</p>
<p>For example, let’s say that the Expected Family Contribution was $20,000 (from the calculators) and with aid, Cornell was expecting your family to pay ummmmmm, $15,000 under it’s formula. However, another school offers you a full ride on a merit program.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that you won’t be able to work this out, but it can be difficult and would mean reneging on a promise you made to the university.</p>
<p>So, my recommendation – if either (i) significant merit aid would cause you to go to another school or (ii) a couple of thousand dollars a year will make a difference and be a hardship on your family, then you shouldn’t apply ED. </p>
<p>By the way, this definately favors well-off students, which is one of the reasons HYP all have non-binding SCEA.</p>
<p>Let’s just say I thoroughly disagree. 
There is no such thing as dishonoring an ED FA offer; declining is the proper word, taken straight from the signed ED agreement. Reneging occurs only after the ED FA offer has been accepted; that’s when an applicant can get in trouble with other schools. There’s nothing dicey about declining if FA was involved; the student is simply released, just as the agreement says. Schools use standard formulas to determine FA offers and they know one size doesn’t fit all. Schools have adopted the wording in the agreement to fight this notion that ED is only for the well-to-do. Some have given up on ED as a result of too few non-wealthy students applying ED, despite their efforts. In all my years here I’ve never heard of a single case of repercussions after simply declining an insufficient ED FA offer.</p>
<p>All this said, the situation may improve with (hopefully) accurate calculators soon (now?) available on each school’s web site so that fewer application fees are wasted when there is little chance of sufficient FA being offered.</p>
<p>We can agree to disagree!!! (though I suspect our disagreement may be more semantic than substantive).</p>