Reject from Grinnell and next steps

Applying to College
,
1

Hello CC community. Thank you for your active guidance and support throughout the process of selection and applications to early admissions. This community is truly supportive.

Special thanks to: @merc81 @thumper1 @tsbna44 @1dadinNC @circuitrider @dad9000 @gardenstategal and many others.

Unfortunately Grinnell where we applied ED has rejected my son. Rollins where we applied EA has accepted but they are not able to cover the demonstrated financial need. We had said that we can do a family contribution of 32K USD/year. Typical range they had suggested was 32K-42K. Total COA is 75K

Now we have to select 5 more colleges for the last application lot.

We were looking for guidance on:

  1. Should we consider these two results as template for what will happen for other liberal arts colleges? Reject from high ranks and not meeting financial need in lower ones?

  2. Should the remaining 4 be low cost state schools with some possibility of merit scholarships or try 4 more LACs which are lower rank. For example: Oberlin, St Olaf, or any other?

Indian Male Student.
Major: Biochemistry SAT: 1480 GPA: 4.0 (UW) EC: @10 including starting an NGO, Teaching assistant for high schoolers, Math club founder at school, Basketball coach at school etc.

1 Like
2

Could you remind us of the applicant’s profile?

2 Likes
3

Sorry about that. Updated the original post.

4

You need a true safety - somewhere you can afford, your son can get in, and your son would enjoy attending.

Beyond that, you can go as “upmarket” as you would like. But understand that merit aid is intended to entice your son into attending a college he might not otherwise. A place he squeaks into might well focus their limited merit aid on other, more accomplished, students.

7 Likes
5

We have applied to some safeties. Rollins was one. We will try and negotiate with Rollins in terms of financial aid. Some others we have already applied to:

  1. Schools which could fit into a budget of 30-40K: Mizzou, University of Vermont, College of Wooster, Colorado College, University of Richmond, Virginia Tech, W&L, Reed

  2. Schools which will require a pinch to family finances: Penn State, UMich, Wisconsin Madison, UIUC, University of Washington at Seattle, UC Berkeley, UC San Diego, UC Davis

We can apply up-to 5 more in the common app if required. BTW our CSS profile on asset side is reasonably strong so Grinnell has probably rejected him even if it was with zero financial aid.

6

I am sorry to hear about your son’s rejection from Grinnell. Acceptance at Rollins without enough aid to make it affordable does not seem like a surprise.

I checked your other thread, mostly to remind myself of your son’s stats. Given his excellent GPA and SAT score, I think that there will be many liberal arts colleges and universities in the US where your son can get accepted. The hard part is being able to afford to attend with a budget of $32,000 per year in US dollars. This is likely to be a challenge.

Exactly.

For the few top LACs that meet full need for international students, acceptance is a reach. For many, many other LACs, given your son’s excellent stats acceptance is very likely, but affordability is unlikely.

On another thread you mentioned that your son has applied to UVM. Given his stats I think that acceptance and a merit scholarship are very likely. However, I would be very surprised if the total cost of attendance came out any lower than about $40,000 per year, and it might be higher.

The top ranked LACs in the US have admissions which is hard to predict. I would have expected your chances to be better at Grinnell compared to some other top LACs such as Amherst, Williams, and Bowdoin, but you never know.

There are hundreds of very good LACs in the US. The problem is that most of them do not guarantee to meet full need for international students. Also financial aid often has an application deadline which may have passed in some cases.

In another thread I suggested one alternative would be to consider small universities in Canada. Some of them have a total cost of attendance which would be no more than C$40,000 per year, which currently works out to just barely less than US$30,000 per year, which would fit your budget. One daughter graduated from a “small primarily undergraduate” university in Canada about 1 1/2 years ago, and did find a good job down here in the US quickly once she started looking (she did a bit of travel first). However, she was born in the US so getting permission to work down here was not an issue. Admissions in Canada is largely stats based, and your son’s excellent stats makes this very likely (probably a safety at any small primarily undergraduate university in Canada).

I think that you need to either make sure that your son has an application in to at least one safety, or be prepared to the possibility that a gap year might be necessary. There should however still be time to apply to some schools where admissions is likely, that will be affordable, and that have very good biology programs.

6 Likes
7

Thanks for this detailed reply. I feel he will get into a few schools which he has already applied to. However, budget of @30K may be a challenge. In that case we will have to dip into our savings a bit. @30K is something we can afford from yearly earnings. Not preferred but can be done if required.

We will start a communication thread with Rollins and see what if any aid they are ready to provide. LAC at a full-cost certainly doesn’t make sense in my opinion. In such a case we can choose one of the state schools where he will hopefully get an admit to.

1 Like
8
  1. Should we consider these two results as template for what will happen for other liberal arts colleges? Reject from high ranks and not meeting financial need in lower ones?

No, especially not in terms of admissions (financial need is more problematic).

For a start, Oberlin is not lower rank than Grinnell- acceptance rate ≠ rank.

Low cost state schools w/ possible merit is fine- but you don’t have any on your list.

On another thread you say that " I closely know a case where one student with much worse profile got @50% need based funds from a B+ grade LAC last year". Why not apply there?

Or perhaps you have not demonstrated the need (your “strong assets” on the CSS profile may send that message). You have set your budget for the US at $32K- but are also looking at the UK, which won’t come in under £50K, and ‘at a pinch’ you are prepared to spend $70K on UCLA/UCB.

I get not wanting to spend more than necessary on third level education, but I think you are trying to get a bargain on the backs of a US college, and that you haven’t made peace with the disparity with the prestige you want / feel your son deserves and the amount you are asking the colleges to subsidize.

Has he had any joy with the UK universities?

6 Likes
9

I think you have to decide - do you want only Grinnell / Oberlin types or do you just want to be here.

Judging by this response - 1. Schools which could fit into a budget of 30-40K: Mizzou, University of Vermont, College of Wooster, Colorado College, University of Richmond, Virginia Tech, W&L, Reed - it’s clear to me you’re willing to go anywhere from a size/geographic POV


So - I think you apply to at least 1-2 schools that “will work” financially - and then you can take chances.

Schools that will require a pinch will require far more than a pinch. The UCs, for example, will be double your budget. And you cannot expect merit.

So if I wanted to go small - and again, this is a risk - but I’ve read several people on here say that Kalamazoo gave them $42K. Do they give money to international? That I don’t know. There may be others like this.

What you are missing is - which schools “would” fit in budget. Would is not could. And you need 1-2 as a would.

This is your - and there are many more - but your Arizona ($22K off), Alabama ($28K off), and there are others - they might be regional, directional, lacking a large international crew, etc. but they are out there.

Another choice might be Florida Atlantic - which with merit I think you’d be in low 30s. They also have the Wilkes Honors College - about 500 kids - so it takes you from the large to small that you crave - although it’s detached from the main campus which you might like since you’re looking at small schools. I linked the Honors College below.

Mainly - and we can give you a bunch from Wyoming to Truman State to get you a solid, US education - these would come in the “would” meet cost.

I don’t know if your #1 will hit budget - certainly UVM won’t. Mizzou won’t (if your budget is $32K. Va Tech won’t, etc.

Your #2 - no shot even getting close.

You need #3 - schools like I mentioned above. You might reach out to Kalamazoo. York College of PA is another that likely will make #s. Look into FAU Honors. And then from there you have your array of large schools that “will” make budget and will have Honors Colleges - starting with Alabama and Arizona but others like Wyoming, Truman State, W Carolina, S Illinois and many more.

Yes, there are tradeoffs in many of these - but that’s what you have to decide.

You need 1-2 to ensure you can go somewhere affordable - if you 100% want to be here for study.

Also - I will tell you college costs more than the schools tell you - so add another $3K or so - if you need to put that into your budget.

Best of luck.

FAU | Wilkes Honors College - Homepage

2 Likes
10

I think you have analyzed the mental state well :slight_smile:

I feel some of the LACs just ask a question to internationals: How much you are willing to pay? Since evaluating the financial conditions may be difficult in other countries. Rollins and University of Richmond were some of those colleges. Grinnell has never asked that question so they went by CSS purely but decided he was not good enough for the admit. At least that is my interpretation.

All UK results are not there yet. He got a reject from Oxford but 4 less reach are still pending. UK we are willing to pay bit more in COA due to proximity to India, travel costs will be lower.

But yes at the end of the day it is an optimization problem of getting into good school at relatively affordable cost which is worth paying for the education. I think it is sort of natural feeling. Stanford I may be willing to pay 75K but Rollins I may not be.

Low cost state with possible merit: Mizzou, Virgina Tech, University of Vermont

Happy to consider some others here as well.

11

Thanks much for this very useful response. Yes we are open to doing 35K. So if you have some suggestions do let me know.

You are very right on #2 not meeting the financial threshold and by long margin. Anyway with ED out of the way we can now wait to see what all schools within USA and UK offer in terms of education, living conditions as well as cost and then take the final decision.

12

Mizzou, Virgina Tech, University of Vermont

You will not be $32K at any - and only Mizzou would get you close.

“But yes at the end of the day it is an optimization problem of getting into good school at relatively affordable cost which is worth paying for the education.” - this is your issue and where I think your lack of understanding comes in. Perhaps it’s the “prestige” that foreign kids seem to want.

There is many a person that went to - say Alabama - that is the boss of a Vanderbilt or Duke kid - and vice versa. I work for a global auto manufacturer - and we have people from schools I hadn’t even heard of who are bosses - U of West Georgia, Clayton State, Fairleigh Dickinson (Ok, this one I know as my dad graduated - a low rated private) and this guy is calling all the shots.

My kid at Bama has - we just counted - 17 companies he’s interviewed with for a full - time job and his one offer is for more than Purdue’s average.

There are MANY good schools at a good cost. In fact, most every school is good if your child takes advantage. At the same time, there’s some “high pedigree” schools that aren’t good - if the student doesn’t take advantage. Don’t let magazine rankings dictate your value system.

If your goal here is to come and use the education system, you have to realize that all colleges are businesses. They don’t do for free. When they do for free, it’s not to help you. It’s to help them. Alabama is giving you $28K (and letting you come out for $80K over 4 years) because you help raise their academic profile, not because they care what you bring to their campus. At Grinnell, even if you got in, you’re just an average kid - so they don’t need you, etc.

At Rollins, you help them and they made you an offer that they consider fair. Maybe if you had a 1600 SAT and higher rigor, etc. they’d have paid more.

It’s no different for local students here (assuming full pay) - you get paid when you go to schools that you are helping - and you don’t get paid at schools where you don’t lift them. Lots of people here are paying $75, 80K - even at schools that you wouldn’t deem to be elite. And then at schools that are solid, but are starved for money, they are paying kids to try to keep cash flow going - schools like Kalamazoo for example.

Many lesser pedigree private schools are suffering financially and are more aggressive - so getting you in helps them by getting cash flow. Rollins isn’t one of these desperate ones.

You are no different than any domestic student chasing merit - you have to have a proper strategy - and that’s why you need 1-2 will make budget vs. just could.

And your assessments of which could make budget are far off.

I hope that helps.

PS - for many schools you shouldn’t wait - or you should get the potential candidates and note the dates you must apply by - and that you must apply by for merit (often times earlier) and for Honors (also often times earlier). Some schools are easy apps - that take 30 minutes or less - and I’d encourage you not to wait
you don’t even have to use common app. While there is a cost, you are going to spend $130K at your budget - so what’s another $400 or $500 now in app fees to ensure a financial fit


4 Likes
13

Reed is $80k per year and they don’t give merit so I would take that one off the list.
Many of the other schools listed are not so realistic such as Washington and Lee.

If you like Wooster, you might also consider Ohio Wesleyan (not sure how they treat International students but my D received a lot of merit, enough to make it cheaper than in state options). She just did not like being in “the middle of nowhere”.

Butler, Dayton and Miami of Ohio might be other possibilities.

9 Likes
14

Reed offers need based aid but is need aware, so admit may be a problem. You are saying W&L is not realistic because the profile is not strong enough?

15

W&L is a “hail mary” - meaning they have the Johnson - so if you have a slot in common app, it’s worth it.

You talk about need aid. Do you know if you have need? As you learned with Rollins, what you need and they say you need are different.

Did Rollins offer you need or merit aid?

2 Likes
16

Reed only offers need based aid which I assume would be limited for a foreign student “with assets”. The school is $80k per year so we are talking like $50k of need based aid.

Not saying Washington and Lee would be a rejection but doubt they would give enough merit for it to be within budget.

3 Likes
17

Yes. I think all valid points. Thanks for being so straight.

Will take into account for deciding the remaining colleges. Doing individual applications is logistical nightmare since it will require running after the schools for uploading transcripts and recommendations etc. We want to finish up all applications process by December end. Cambridge board exams start in February.

18

Right now your kid doesn’t have a U.S. safety, a school that he would like to attend, is extremely likely to be accepted, and IS affordable, according to your designated budget.

@aquapt mentioned in a different thread some public liberal arts colleges. One, U. of Minnesota - Morris, is not too late to apply to for priority consideration of its merit scholarships, but the deadline (Dec. 15) is quickly appoaching. If your son liked the school, that would be a safety, as it’s within budget even without getting any merit aid.

I think Wooster is probably the likeliest school to get into your price range, or maybe Mizzou. In looking at College Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics, I would look at the net price for incomes of $110k+ to see if the net price was below $30k. Those are the schools I think are likeliest to meet your budget.

Some possibilities you may want to consider include:

  • Beloit (WI): CTCL

  • Birmingham-Southern (AL) - Birmingham is a great place for medical-related fields, and there’s a consortium where the Birmingham-area colleges can take classes at other schools. CTCL

  • Illinois Institute of Technology

  • Kalamazoo (MI): CTCL

  • Lawrence (WI) - CTCL

  • Trinity (TX) - less likely financially than the ones listed above, but probably more likely than most of the ones on your current list

CTCL are schools that are part of the Colleges That Change Lives association, an association of smaller colleges that were commended by a NY Times author in a book of the same name. The schools listed above also tend to have more racially diverse student bodies than many other small schools.

6 Likes
19

Yes we have applied to W&L + Johnson as RD. We will see.

The communications from Rollins:

The International Admission Committee at Rollins has reviewed your application for admission and upon our initial review we are pleased to report that your academic record meets our admission standards. However, our financial aid resources for international candidates are extremely limited and unfortunately, we are unable to meet your demonstrated financial need at this time.

The total cost for international students is substantial at approximately $74,500 per year with increases each year. As much as we would like to offer you admission, the resources that you and your family are able to contribute to your education are, unfortunately, insufficient to cover your portion of these costs even with financial aid or scholarships.

Regrettably, we are unable to offer you admission at this time because we don’t want this decision to be a financial burden for you. If you or your family have a change in financial circumstances that would allow you to attend Rollins College, please contact your admission counselor and we will reconsider your application.

I assume this means 32K which we said we can pay is too low. We will write to the admissions office and see what if anything can be worked out.

20

Thanks much for this actionable post! We did look at Morris when looking at Wooster. Will definitely consider it again.

3 Likes