Whatever you decide, I hope you’ll return to this board as freshman and let us know what it’s like being a freshman!
BTW, another vote for Bowdoin. 
I would also add that Bowdoin made it a point to tell families that if you got a grant as part of your financial package that you should expect to receive it all four years as long as your financial picture remains similar. It’s not like if the parents made an extra $5k, that they would reduce the grant. That was very reassuring. For those that don’t know, Bowdoin has a very healthy endowment per student capita, so that allows them to really offer full aid in many cases, not just full need based on “our calculations.”
And of course, I’m sure my D19 and @homerdog’s S19 would be delighted to chat with you about their [shortened] experience at Bowdoin this year ?
I agree that endowment-per-student is a good point of comparison to be looking at, especially given the economic stresses that schools are currently under. According to CollegeRaptor’s 2020 list (I’d post the link but I think CC would *** it out anyway), Grinnell is at #12 and Bowdoin at #15. Macalester is #56. USC is at 127. I’m sure there is an “apples to oranges” factor there when comparing small schools to larger ones (and USC is far better off than, say, Northeastern at #403) but still, knowing that your aid is backed by a healthy endowment is a good thing.
Definitely apples to oranges, they just take total endowed by total enrollment, and with USC having more grad students than undergrads, will definitely be hurt by the rankings.
Hmmm, I am now leaning towards my GPPA Medical Scholars admittance (typically a 7yr bs/MD). I will have my entire tuition covered and should be able to use some scholarship money towards a metra to cut down my commute to around 1 hour and 30-minute roundtrip way and back (I was just thinking about CTA which is awful).
I’d have a one to one practicing physician mentorship and other good stuff which basically guarantees research and shadowing from day 1. To think I could be Dr. Kim at age 25 is really something, to be honest!
In terms of paying off medical school (if I go to UICOM), my brother suggested working (6 years?) at a local VA Hospital (hospital for veterans) which allows for tuition waivers!
Though that would mean 7 more years of cloudy, cold, and windy Chicago.
We’ll see how enticing USC, once my financial aid appeal comes through, is, as they have some eye-catching programs with their Keck School of Medicine and other accelerated courses.
This really is so hard. For W&L I would literally just need to pack a suitcase and be off, and in 4 years, graduate with some killer experiences (utilizing funded foreign abroad trips, research, internships). However, their Pre-Med isn’t as strong on or near campus - so I’ll really have to be proactive and reach out.
Bowdoin, another amazing school. Similar to W&L in that I’ll have a stipend ($3000) to access, but plenty of on-campus, close-knit research opportunities with professors. Also, the Bowdoin Marine lab. Maine is cold, but how much worse could it be as someone from Chicago.
Bowdoin has great food, and from interacting with current and admitted students, the community is extremely welcoming, kind-hearted, high spirited, and just a really down-to-earth group.
They’re also really well known for their strong biological science programs within the LACs. However, none of them (Bowdoin and W&L) show up on the AAMC data sheets:
https://www.aamc.org/data-reports/students-residents/interactive-data/2019-facts-applicants-and-matriculants-data
But that I am assuming has to do with how many Pre-Meds are there, to begin with at each school - which would mean less competition and probably selective advising. Not to forget the Early Assurance Program with Rochester Medical School and Tufts (though I’m not sure how difficult each one is to get into).
Most students who start as pre-meds decide not to continue on to do an MD. If that happens, Bowdoin or W&L would put you in a far better place when you graduate than would UIC.
LACs like Bowdoin or W&L actually prepare students really well for Medical school - you should check out what their placement rate is. What is important about a high placement rate at a LAC is that it not only tells you about how well they prepare students for medical school, but how well they help students figure out what they actually want.
Here is another thing which has struck me over the year + during which you have posted: you really seem like somebody who would thrive in a LAC. You are smart and driven, but you also do not have a single focus in your life. You seem that you would really do better in a school which would allow you to do a bit more intellectual exploration than would the GPPA program.
I understand this, but, considering that your actual medical career will still only start another 4-7 years AFTER you get that title, AND it will last another 30+ years after that, starting one or two years early is not a big advantage.
Another very important factor is that, once you start medical school and until you finish residency, you will be eating, sleeping, and breathing medical school. In the GPPA, you may be cutting a year or two off of the 11-15 years that a student spends in training for a career as a medical doctor, but you are extending the sole focus on medical training to the entire time.
So instead of having 4 years to study biology and everything else that interests you, and then spending 7-11 years training to be a doctor, you will be spending 9-13 years doing nothing but medical school, and then you will need to start working, since you will need to pay off those medical school loans.
If you were somebody with a driving passion for being an MD, GPPA would be great for you. However, you seem to have a wide variety of interests and multiple directions which you want to explore. Committing to one path, especially when you are being offered the opportunity to explore other directions for free (and having another $3,000 stipend) seems a waste to me.
In short - I recommend that you attend one of the LACs, and during that period, decide whether you want to do medical school. In the meantime, enjow the intellectual freedom that these LACs all provide.
I found this, which may be of interest for you:
https://www.bowdoin.edu/health-professions/about/facts-and-statistics/index.html
I have to agree with @MWolf. We were once touring an LAC, and a student on the tour was with her grandfather. At the end of the tour he mentioned that he was an alumnus and a physician. He made a point of saying that he had devoted his whole career to medicine and was so grateful that he had taken 4 years to be in a liberal arts community, to learn about how medicine could relate to other areas of the world, to explore other interests, and ultimately, to confirm his commitment to the field. It really stuck with me.
@HKimPOSSIBLE I think you have a lot of people thinking about you, and thinking about your situation and wishing you the best!
I’ve already given you my 2 cents previously, but I’ve thought more about it since the last time. I think either way for UIC-GPPA or Bowdoin/W&L you are taking a gamble, and the question is which bet you feel better taking.
The gamble with UIC-GPPA is:
- can you score in the top 10% for the MCAT? If not, you no longer have your seat.
- what if you decide you don’t want to be a doctor? You’ve spent at least $40k more than you would have if you went to Bowdoin/W&L.
The gamble with Bowdoin/W&L is:
*you might not get into ANY med school
*even if you get into a med school, it might not be for your In-State med school (so med school will cost $60k more, for a net college/med school increased cost of $20k). BUT, you might be lucky and do well enough that you get into a med school that will give you grants, so you might be one of the lucky few that your private med school will cost less than your in-state option.
The benefit of UIC-GPPA is (assuming you meet MCAT/grad requirements):
- you are a doctor at age 25, rather than 26 or maybe 27 if you are forced to take a gap year. For a low-income individual, getting out into the work force sooner rather than later can be huge.
The benefit of Bowdoin/W&L is:
*you will be exposed to more things for more personal growth
*you might decide, after being exposed to more things, that you want to do something other than be a doctor
*if you don’t score within the top 10% of the MCAT, you have saved $40k, and I’d argue that a degree from Bowdoin/W&L will carry more weight for job hunting than UIC. And paying off $40k with only an undergrad degree will be a lot harder than paying off an additional $60k of debt with a med school degree.
In the pro/con above, you will see that I pegged UIC at $40k, because I really think that you should reconsider the possibility of commuting. I understand this issue well, since I commuted an hour each way for grad school. I was lucky to commute by train and was able to go during off hours. So I was able to spread out and do homework, and it was not wasted time. BUT, there was a lot of homework I couldn’t do because I needed more things than just the textbook, and forget about it if I had to go during times when I couldn’t spread out. I really urge you to consider taking the commuting option off the table. If that were your only available option, that would be a different story, and you’d do what you have to, but luckily you have other options.
I agree. Both Bowdoin and W&L are extremely prestigious AND will prepare you for med school well. That’s a given.
More distinctively you will receive a superb education that allows you to keep your intellectual curiosity growing, explore new interests, push yourself, all for free and as part of a true community.
Personnally, I really think you’d thrive at Bowdoin.
As for becoming an intern at 25 v. 26, is that so important? It almost makes no sense considering you want to be a doctor. You’ve got to be ready for the long haul. If cutting one year matters so much it might not the the best path for you. As a doctor, you shouldn’t aim for quick, but for thorough.
I am a commuter. Have been for almost 30 years now. At first I went to a suitcase school, where everyone appeared to travel home for the weekend, so I did too. I did so love when I went to a school where everyone stayed for the whole term! I then met the man who ended up being my husband and we were in a long distance relationship for years, so I commuted for that. Then he refused to move to the big city with me for my job, so I commuted for that. My current job is closer, but I still spend an hour on the train - one way.
And I like trains, and public transport, I’ve never commuted or traveled by car when I could avoid it. I’ve taken trains all over Europe and North America, days and nights, on my own, with friends, with families. I’ve taken trains in Africa. I’ve slept in cars, on floors, on platforms. Compartments are my sitting rooms, train restaurants are my hangouts. With very few exceptions, I’ve always felt safe.
It STILL gets old.
And now? I’m an essential worker, I have to get on that train in my gloves and facemask, veering around other travelers who stare at me with the same distrust I feel for them. I hate it.
Even without Covid, I wouldn’t recommend choosing a school where you’d have to get on that train, for an hour, each way, for SEVEN years. Yes, it might cut a year off your education- if it works out, and that might be worth the 40 k it costs you up front but that’s 40k you don’t have!
With Covid? Choose the school with the deepest pockets and the highest chance of an undisrupted education for the next 4 years. That’s NOT the school in Chicago. I still think it might be Grinnell, but the other two LACs might work, too.
Can’t agree more with the above. Ask any doctor if they could change their education what it would be and the freedom to take other interests and classes would be it.
Intellectual curiosity.
Using the train time studying is great but most likely won’t happen. It’s not just 1.5 hours each way. Nothing runs on time. This gets very weary in the winter and cold.
You have several free options and to get out of the city (I live in and love Chicago). Growing up is all about new experiences. Do that.
If you end up wanting to be a doctor, Trust me, you will become a doctor.
There is absolutely no denying you. You will make it happen.
But… There are more opportunities for you that you have not even thought about yet. Explore those before you can’t anymore. Most doctors I know are not telling their kids to go into medicine. There is a reason for that. Yes, we will always need good doctors. But the climate is changing and will look different in 6-10 years.
You honestly only have good choices. But with the economics now will be in effect for a few years. You will kick yourself not taking the free or less expensive options. Sure work in the VA. Some love it but lots don’t. No funds for the research you want to do. That’s a totally different conversation. Plus there might be so many people applying don’t think that is guaranteed either.
I agree with the others.
Your a great kid but nothing screams to me that you want to be a “typical doctor” . I knew at 9 years old I “needed” to be one.
Honestly, your the kid that will intertwine his interests and might come up with something new.
A new approach.
I’m personally kinda excited to see what that becomes.
Any decision of any type is a leap of faith. But this one’s not such a big leap. Go to Bowdoin.
I am wondering why you would be so worried about not getting into med school that you would choose the in many ways inferior option in order to get this (tenuous!) lock over the many cheaper and better ones. Is it the trauma of last year? You were DACA! You are not anymore! You have seen how it made all the difference. It should not inform your choice.
If you’re looking to attend medical school, you can’t do much better than Bowdoin. Check out the best 25 colleges for pre-meds on the savvy pre-med site.
For people who come from financial insecurity, there is a strong pull for what appears to be guaranteed security, which being Dr. Kim at age 25 would provide. The belief that one is free to explore the liberal arts before choosing a career path largely arises from having the safety net of coming from an upper-middle class or better upbringing.
But @HKimPOSSIBLE , you have been afforded exactly that opportunity at Bowdoin and other places through a zero cost option. You clearly have the drive and intelligence to get into medical school IF that is what you end up deciding. But you won’t regret exploring in the meantime.
“The 25 Best Colleges for Pre-Meds”
- *Bowdoin*
- Princeton
- Duke
- Bates
- Bryn Mawr
- Dartmouth
- Johns Hopkins
- Swarthmore
- Union
- Brown
- Carleton
- Rice
- UChicago
- Hamilton
- Stanford
- Amherst
- Tulane
- Middlebury
- Williams
- Columbia
- Northwestern
- MIT
- Harvard
- Centre
- Colgate
There is an old expression, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Bowdoin seems like the best fit and is offering you so many advantages. Go to Bowdoin and don’t look back.
The reason I said Doctor at 25 was because of the increasing amount of people take a gap year or gap years (even a close cousin who lives in the same town) and the competitiveness of even getting into a top-notch MD school like UI College of Medicine. The GPPA program puts a heavy emphasis on not trying to check some boxes or rush through it.
I’m pretty excited to start too. I find the novel of GPPA to be that I’m already on a doctor’s path instead of figuring things out the next four years.
As @melvin123 brought up, it’s a bit of a gamble both ways.
With the GPPA program, I’ll have a solid “safety” medical school (which is also the state flagship) and in a place with one of the best healthcare providers around. I’ll also be able to major in a non STEM major like psychology, political science, anthropology, and whatnot freely.
On the flip side, I probably won’t have too many things like clubs, festivals, intramural sports, and things like that as a commuter. But I’ll have a solid medical training: its philosophy, how it applies to current events, and all things like that as a special GPPA Core Curriculum during undergrad. I think that’s the give and take. Variety vs a focussed training.
I understand that Bowdoin and W&L will give me a well-rounded education and the breadth of opportunities for other things. I agree that if I was not as committed to medicine as I am, it would be much easier to decide - Bowdoin or W&L. I’ll also have quite a handful of Questbridge friends I made through the group chats since way back in October. Not to forget that Bowdoin has some great Early Assurance programs with medical schools so that I won’t need to take the MCAT - but that’s an “if” I get in.
Becoming an M.D. is not going to change for me and it’s a personal mission I’ve had since I was younger and fortified through high school and heavily through my gap year - which I think is probably different from people fortifying that during undergrad years.
USC, on the other hand, is a little different. They have a solid medical school right next door, multiple integrated medicine programs with Keck (their medical school), and of course, the appeal of location and atmosphere. However, as I don’t live in LA, commuting isn’t an option nor are their any guarantees here.
Right now, I’ve made a Google document listing all the opportunities I found available at each of the schools I’m deciding between those details (they’re all medicine focussed!)
- Internship opportunities on and off-campus
- Research opportunities both in a lab setting and clinical setting
- Proximity to a hospital/health system
- Resources for Pre-Med and Curriculum
I have yet to hear back from my counselor, however, with all the coronavirus thing going on and many of the school offices are closed. Luckily I’ve been able to get in touch with some pre-med students and pre-health advisors at Bowdoin/W&L and spoke with a GPPA Medicine student (who also happens to by my friend’s older brother and a graduate of my high school).
USC on the other hand, I haven’t even figured out their financial aid yet!
“The 25 Best Colleges for Pre-Meds”
- Bowdoin
- Princeton
- Duke
- Bates
Ok but something’s not adding up, if Bowdoin is the best college for pre-med, why doesn’t it have 50 or more med school students in the aama list? Legitimate question the OP brings up, other LACs like Vassar, Amherst, Wesleyan Pomona are on there. The list is biased to larger schools of course, and here are grads compared to class size:
Bowdoin - class size of 500, less than 50 in med school
Vassar- 700, 70
Pomona - 420, 64
Amherst - 500, 57
Wesleyan - 800, 70
And the other college OP is considering
USC - 3200, 329
“I agree. Both Bowdoin and W&L are extremely prestigious AND will prepare you for med school well. That’s a given.”
Based on what, statements by the colleges? That’s not a given. I can also say that Amherst, Pomona, USC are extremely prestigious and will prepare someone for med school and have facts to back it up.