I agree with this but …then recognize it explicitly, and be upfront that it is a big “pro” factor. Don’t try to rationalize it with other things. Many things are ok.
It is ok to want to be close to your family.
It is ok to be the first person in your family to “break out”, to move away, to take advantage of better options and opportunities than your family had
It is ok to not want to do that, too
It is ok to have a single minded focus on something (but caveat here is that this can definitely change, yes even if you’ve been convinced since age 9 this is what you want)
It is ok to open yourself up to new experiences
It is ok to be scared of new or different things /conversely to have some kind of comfort zone
Everyone is different and everyone has his or her own reasons for choosing a college
I just think… you should be conscious of the reasons you are making the decision you are. That way lies the path of least regret.
Actually I don’t necessarily think I need to stay in Illinois - in fact, if I go out of state that’ll bring balance to the OOS/In-State ratio in my family lol.
It’s not more about having family, but knowing the area like the back of your hand kind of thing. It’s like a backyard - I know I have my solid research there, I know I’ll have top-notch LOR for medical school (GPPA Director and my Lab Director at Northwestern), and all the clinical experience is there. Physician mentoring, interacting with patients, and a curriculum designed to give us the most exposure to medicine as physically as possible. It’s not just the guarantee of going into medical school but rather a career and research opportunities. Though I would have to commute, it would be 1 hour and 30 minutes roundtrip from the moment I walk out the door of my apartment to the moment I walk back in taking the Metra (safer and so much quicker than the CTA).
Lots of things that I hear from my counselor, my other counselor, my brother, people in the program, and people I personally know in the medical program are saying GPPA is the way - and the more I researched it does seem to be the tried and true way.
With Bowdoin, W&L, and the other LACs there isn’t that sort of guarantee. I see the 87% matriculation rate, but that could mean anywhere from Rosalind Franklin Medical School (ranked #223) to somewhere like Mayo Clinic. And the AAMC datasheet doesn’t instill a lot of confidence - schools that show up, even if they’re just [Applicants], does make me wonder: does Bowdoin and W&L not even have that many applicants to medical school? Even smaller LACs are squeezing out more medical school applicants. For example, Pomona, yes it’s a LAC known to have a stellar Pre-Med “program” and the data seems to support that. I’m not disregarding/dismissing the schools, but it’s a genuine question I have.
Also, I understand the concern people have regarding the “what if you don’t want to be a doctor”. I will be and that won’t change I guarantee. So to me, I’m seeing a parallel circuit almost rather than a fork in the road here - I know where and what I’m going to end up with, and I can see it (the end/the other side) when I look down the GPPA road, but not with the Bowdoin road. I hear voices saying it’s a great Pre-Med school, it has an 87% medical school acceptance rate, and that I’ll have a wonderful experience (without a doubt) there, but when I look down two roads and I know I have to get to the other side, UIC looks rather extremely appealing.
That’s my general thought process of the situation.
Okay HKim, you are clearly thinking very deeply about this.
My two cents as a person who commuted to college for six years, and speaking strictly from an emotional POV: I wish I hadn’t commuted. I lived 30 minutes from my college. I never made a single friend on campus in six years. Not one. (I had friends at work, but not the same.)
It’s almost impossible to be invested in college life if you don’t live on campus. My two kids both live(d) on campus and I can tell you that my college senior has lifelong friends. My freshman has good grades and new friends. He already prefers his college life to life at home. Both of my kids have grown and matured in ways I simply never could. They are happy, and being around friends who are motivated to do well makes them work harder.
Maybe you think QOL isn’t important, but the next, what, eight years of your life are going to be a hard slog. Doing it with people you care about, outside of your family, is possibly going to be a huge, unforeseen source of comfort and support for you. And also, actively enjoying four years of college shouldn’t be dismissed.
It sounds as though your family is very important to you. So maybe you should reconsider Macalester or Grinnell, which will enable you to see your family more often. In that case, I’d go for Macalester, as you seem to want a bit of city vibe.
It happens. My friend in high school always wanted to be corporate attorney. He knew. He became a lawyer, did very well and semi-retired at 45. Maybe not the norm but it does happen.
Quality of life means different things. For some people it means being on-campus making friends or being on your own away from family. For some its security and and consistency. There is no wrong answer.
Good luck.
@HKimPOSSIBLE
Very impressed with you and your thought process and your reaction to the “advice” everyone is sending your way. Continue to gather the info you need/want and then once you make a decision don’t look back as the choice you make will be the best one for you. It is very obvious why the schools you have on your short list have offered you great options! Any of these schools would be lucky to have you as a student! Congrats
There are lots of livable neighborhoods near UIC/Rush. My sister lived in Ukranian Village while a nursing student but there are closer neighborhoods as well. There’s also IIT area (Bronzeville) though that’s three miles away. My oldest lives on the south side and was near UIC to pick up something at an Amazon locker (why it was sent there I’ll never know) and she thought the area was fine. Early evening. Late evening might be a different story, but that’s true throughout Chicago - including UChicago. Use university-provided shuttles and budget for a few Ubers and make sure your stop is well lit. With a bit of planning and common sense, safety shouldn’t be an issue.
Part of it is known v. unknown. People here who know what colleges like Bowdoin, W&L, Macalester, or Grinnell can bring you, but you don’t and can’t imagine it (because it’s a lot of intangible that you need to experience to truly understand). And you know people in GPPA, people around you know GPPA and it makes sense to them whereas the LACs don’t.
I suppose you don’t really see what we’re talking about.
One of my advisees was admitted to both Stony Brook and URochester. He was a child refugee, entirely alone in the US, uprooted from his family. It made sense that he chose Stony Brook because it allowed him to stay close to the few people he’d come to know and trust, which facilitated his growth as an independent, well-adjusted person living in the Honors Dorm during the week without cutting him off from those who’d taken him in.
However you’re not in this situation - you don’t sound, at least, uprooted, destabilized, and fragile in the same way. So, I’m guessing it’s not so much the appeal of staying put, but rather a general sense that you feel you know where you’ll end up with GPPA. Is that correct?
Commuting is a problem in general. When students have no choice, they make do, but people who know both experiences have ALL told you it should be a deal breaker. This is especially true for premeds.
If your brother did it, you can do it - but you have a CHOICE (that your brother paid for in part by going into the Army) and your experience will be that much fuller.
Is there any way UIC can improve your financial aid package so that you can live on campus? GPPA markets itself well but it shouldn’t hide that they’re not providing enough FA for you to live on campus. There are only 25-30 GPPA students, shouldn’t they meet full need at least for them?
For your non GPPA/premed related classes (gen eds, etc), will you be able to take all your classes in the Honors College? How many Honors Courses and sections are offered each semester? If you can’t, won’t you miss the stimulation that comes from top-notch classes, versus classes targeted at students with a 3.3 HS GPA/24 ACT? [that was a major complaint by some previous GPPA students who thought they’d been “well marketed to” but who had forgotten the whole university isn’t GPPA and for whom a group of 25-30 was too restrictive. It may not apply to you, but at least, investigate your ability to take Honors courses to fulfill as many requirements as possible.)
Beside the life-changing experiences that top LACs can bring, the major problem here is that you don’t have a full ride to UIC. You won’t be able to live on campus - and that is very important.
I’m also afraid the “certainty” of GPPA is not as “certain” as you think - considering the GPA and score you need to proceed. With this GPA and these scores, you’d still proceed to a med school. You’d still be instate for UICOM and you wouldn’t really “lose” anything.
(WRT your LOR from the Northwestern Lab: please, don’t make it a factor in your decision. If you move closer to the UIC campus, the lab will be hard to reach. Hopefully, GPPA can help you find labs closer to campus. Beside yourself moving, your PI may well move at any point or the lab change… Finally, the LOR s/he wrote didn’t allow you to get into Northwestern :(. So this point doesn’t seem like something you should see as a positive factor, more like a neutral factor at best. More importantly, you may also want to try different labs and different types of research, in particular, find labs that pertain to human health - neurology, cancer, etc.)
Yes,a reference from someone who supervised you as a high school student is not going to be an effective reference for med school.
“…won’t you miss the stimulation that comes from top-notch classes, versus classes targeted at students with a 3.3 HS GPA/24 ACT? [that was a major complaint by some previous GPPA students who thought they’d been “well marketed to” but who had forgotten the whole university isn’t GPPA and for whom a group of 25-30 was too restrictive. It may not apply to you, but at least, investigate your ability to take Honors courses to fulfill as many requirements as possible.)”
Yes, good point @MYOS1634 . The quality of classes and professor interaction is going to be markedly better at one of the LAC choices. Four years of your life in an intellectually stimulating environment is worth something.
There are several roads that will get you to your destination. Do you want to get on the boring freeway and drive straight there, or do you want to take the scenic route? Both will get you where you want to go, but unless there’s some important reason to get there in a hurry, the scenic route sure is more interesting, plus no tolls. What’s more personally rewarding? And which road is most likely to help make you a better doctor? (Can’t resist a nice metaphor.)
BTW, re hookup culture. That happens at all colleges. And bars. And work places, gyms, nightclubs… None of the LACs you are contemplating have a particular rep for hookup culture.
I’m going to be a lone dissenter here and say I think the direct GPPA is the way to go. I just went through a med school admission cycle with a close friend’s D who had 99th percentile MCAT score, 3.99 GPA, hundreds and hundreds of hours at the hospital, shadowing, research, etc… and only had 1 acceptance for med school. Lots of people had zero acceptances and end up working for a year.
The application process and traveling for interviews was grueling and expensive.
I think if you know for sure med school is the path, a direct admit program is very hard to pass up.
If you have eliminated W & L, you should let them know so they can offer the Jefferson scholarship to another student.
I love the thought process @HKimPOSSIBLE. I might not agree 100 % but you really have thought it through. The one thing that maybe I didn’t get was 1.5 hours round trip. So your saying 45 minutes each way /door to door? If that’s the case then that’s normal travel for Chicago. My kids took a train to bus each way 40 minutes just to go to high school. If you live closer then that, to me that makes a bigger difference. For UIC lots of kids commute. My son’s friends that are 1/2 to full boat rides take the train an hour each way. It’s normal for them since the have done it from Middle school to high school. Also your brother and friends have done it and they survived.
It seems you have a plan and I do like the Northwestern gig. Not sure how much time you will have for that with your studies but something tells me you’ll figure that out. Nice to have that in your back pocket. Maybe some of that pay can offset some of your expenses?
Still you have a bit of time to look at all your options. You will end up making the best decision for yourself regardless of the mounting pressure here… Lol.
You will be highly successful wherever you end up. I truly believe that.
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@HKimPOSSIBLE I’ve been following but haven’t really chimed in too much. Our S19 is a freshman at Bowdoin. I’m happy to answer any of your questions either here or via PM. We are also in the Chicago suburbs. S19 is very happy at Bowdoin and, as parents, we think Bowdoin has delivered everything we could have hoped for him. He’s not pre-med but likely a math and physics major. He can’t talk to the difficulty of pre-med classes specifically but he can speak to the difficulty of STEM classes at Bowdoin, though, if that could help you.
Have you tried making a pros and cons list for each school? This thread is going around and around and I don’t know if it’s helping you decide at this point. Be super honest with yourself and make sure you have any information you need by talking to actual students and faculty at each school. Make the list of pros and cons. It was a very insightful exercise for S19 and helped him focus on what was most important to him. It’s hard for me to sense your priorities by reading this thread.
Maybe the LAC experience isn’t important to you…but maybe being a commuter is way down on your list of how you want to “do” college too. You’re obviously concerned about med school admissions so do your homework and get the real scoop from each school. I would assume that, at these LACs on your list, you will NOT be left out to dry when it comes to pre-med classes. If you make the effort to see your profs, you will do well. Not sure if that would be true at USC. At some bigger schools, pre-med classes are cut throat and many determined pre-meds drop that plan after freshman year.
And I have to chime in to say that it’s really hard for me to believe that you would pass up any LAC experience and go to UIC as a commuter. I’m biased, of course You, though, need to decide what is important to you!
@HKimPOSSIBLE I’ve also been following and I’m so thrilled with your options. I love USC and am hoping your appeal there works out. I think your prior DACA status and experience last year has made you very risk adverse - and who could blame you? Still, you are hearing from a lot of allies encouraging you to go out of your comfort zone and I do hope you will consider that, even though it may be uncomfortable. You have had to grow up really quickly and I’d love for you to allow yourself some fun and adventure for your next four years, not just grinding through to a distant goal. Whatever you decide though, I’m rooting for you!
I’m curious. Your current preference in order is USC (if finances work out), UIC-GPPA, Bowdoin. So, you’re willing to give up the “guaranteed” seat at UIC med school with its in-state rate, for USC. But you’d rather not do that for Bowdoin. What do you see USC giving you that makes you feel this way?
FWIW I continue to say “guaranteed” because of the 90th percent MCAT requirement.
Family is not something I include in my college selection. It’s important for a lot of people, but I’ll be clear that I’m not concerned about being close or being far.
@MYOS1634 For Northwestern, to be fair, I didn’t ask for his LOR (was going to see if I get into Northwestern and then apply for HPME).
But yes, with GPPA, I’ll never when and where I’ll end up at the least, with the least being a flagship medical school! But you do bring up a good point about the rigor of the classes, though by hearing back from my brother and my friend’s brother who were/are attending UIC, most classes are around a Level 3 difficulty (Our school does Level 2e, 2, 3, and 4) - College Prep, Honors, High Honors.
@melvin123 Well my appeal did go through this morning ironically but by only 6k - at this point we’re considering dropping it as we no longer think we should waste our time with a school clearly not invested in giving good financial aid - and that’s from a Questbridge partner school!
But if it had come through, I would say having a medical school (ranked #33?) helps tremendously, and especially when USC graduates make a large portion of the incoming class for Keck School of Medicine.
They also have quite a few internship-esque classes that work with the LA clinics and other neat programs, curriculum wise, for Pre-Med students. Also not to forget USC produces a lot of medical school applicants (ofc it’s a big school) but also many Asian medical school applicants (AAMC Fact Sheet)
I know USC is the sentimental favorite, but I think you’re wise to let it go. Their offer on appeal isn’t that great, and even that is probably a “loss leader” for them. They know that once you’ve matriculated, they can be less generous and you’ll just have to suck it up. Once you’re there, you’ll have driven your bargaining power off the lot. And then your two years of on-campus housing will end and you’ll have to find housing you can afford on your stingy aid package. It doesn’t bode well.
Plus, the fact that they generate lots of med school applicants, and lots of Asian med school applicants in particular, is nice in a camaraderie sense but then you’re competing head-to-head with all those people… and to a lesser extent with the huge numbers of similar med school applicants coming out of UCLA and the rest of the UC system. As a non-guaranteed pathway, Bowdoin would be much more advantageous. I don’t honestly think it’s a worry that they don’t appear on lists that are based on raw numbers - that’s just because it’s a very small school, and one that’s not dominated by premed students. But the premed cohort they have gets excellent preparation and does well in terms of admissions. (Plus, they have the specific advantaged pathways that have been pointed out to you.)
I definitely get why GPPA appeals to you. It seems as if you have clicked with that program from the second you stepped into the interview. We’re all here extolling the beauty of the LAC experience, but you’ve already had to wait a year to start college and feeling very much in a “let’s get on with it” head space as opposed to a “savor the experience” one. Our current context, with travel restrictions keeping you from visiting and clouding the forecast for even having the residential campus experience that so many of us want for you, makes it even harder to see committing to a LAC in another region when you have a local bird-in-the-hand that you’re excited about.
I really think you’ll do great either way. But I do think it should be a GPPA vs. Bowdoin decision. USC isn’t showing you the kind of backing you need and deserve.
“Also not to forget USC produces a lot of medical school applicants (ofc it’s a big school) but also many Asian medical school applicants (AAMC Fact Sheet)”
- Wonder if that has more to do with the demographics of the state of CA than anything else? Even top privates in CA tend to attract a good number of Californians.
That’s a good point, looks like Maine is 1% Asian, CA 15%, so OP may want to factor that in when looking at med school applicants and admits.
I don’t mean to catch you out - we are all rooting for you and want the best for you. You may genuinely think that your family may have nothing to do with your choices.
But, at some point, not too long ago, you were all about U of C, your number one and ED school, with its core and liberal arts ethos and life of the mind. Now your number one school all of a sudden is UIC, with its focus and its preprofessional preparation and its med school lock.
As far as I can see, the one thing those two choices have in common are that they are smack bang in your home town.
Think about it.