Reject Train Going Full Speed

Applying to College
1141

Whoa lots of replies this morning! I do think Tigerle’s perspective is somewhat how I viewed the general premise of deciding between the schools, albeit I was more focussed on UIC and what it could be.

Also just to clarify, I would NOT have to be working to afford UIC GPPA - tuition wise I am all covered with grants and scholarships. Though yes I will probably be earning money via an internship/lab or just part time somewhere to save up.

@Tigerle It is a serious consideration if we go to UIC as I’ll be there for at least 7 more years - however, the rent in my town (Northshore Suburbs) is probably the cheapest there is - $900 tax included has free water, gas, and heating.

Although I might not be replying a ton, all the advice and perspectives are extremely helpful.

Also someone mentioned a Pro/Con list and I do have a Google Doc with certain topics/factors.

The other option is my brother pulling out his Pell Grant from UIC (he is now contemplating 2 years of UIC as he just got back and won’t be applying to Med School this fall and most likely next fall or so - no way to cramp applications in by June).

Because of his military benefits, Illinois will cover his full tuition and he can and is considering pulling out his pell grant to get a 9 month rent or so during the school year by Taylor Street, which would be right in UIC and their Medical Campus.

Mental Health wise for the immediate undergraduate years, I do see what everyone is saying - it will be exciting to meet a large group of new people, inreract with them on a daily basis, and yes, even have quite some fun.

However I think if I don’t get into medical school (M.D. and not D.O.) or one as great as UICOM, that satisfaction and fulfillment would truly be devastating.

@Sue22 brought something great (and I think someone earlier did as well) regarding the Early Assurance Program, but the question is what if I don’t get in?

And to play devil’s advocate on my own part, I agree - commuting and not having that on campus station to check into and live in won’t be the most interactive experience. Undergraduate may not be the most breathtaking experience…

But, after 3 years, that mental satisfaction and fulfillment is guaranteed via medical school matriculation.

1142

@Tigerle , I take issue with your statement that LACs are infantilising. I will state unequivocally that my daughter, who attends an LAC, has never been more challenged and has never worked harder in her life than during the last four years. I would describe it as the exact opposite of infantilising.

Professors have high expectations, and students getting into some of these LACs are admitted because they have shown they can do the work and take it seriously. Heck yes, the resources are awesome, but no one holds your hand. Do they make you aware of the resources? Absolutely, and frankly, that’s part of the appeal. What student wouldn’t love access to such resources?

There is support for those who seek it, and it’s readily available. Having trouble with O Chem? The tutoring center will have the best students who can help. The professor will have office hours and will fully expect students to utilize them. Student participation is expected. Study groups are the norm. Academic and a career advisors and are there to help ensure a student is making the right choices. But no one is holding their hand. Rather, they ensure that students are aware that these options are available.

There is zero coddling. Maybe my daughter went in as a kid, but she is leaving as an adult with a very adult and responsible job lined up. No one handed her the job. She worked her butt off and got it herself. She is the one who applied for grants for summer internships, she did the work to win a prestigious scholarship, she took the initiative to enter competitions, she earned every one of her A’s.

If there’s a reason why a college like Bowdoin is so successful with med school acceptances, it’s certainly not because of babying. It’s the opposite. If a student isn’t cut out for med school, they are going to make sure the student knows it. That isn’t coddling. That’s good advising.

1143

@HKimPOSSIBLE It seems you are seeing light at end of tunnel. You may had answered this before, but wonder why can’t you stay on UIC campus? Besides R&B cost on campus, are there any other constraints that you may want to shed some light on?

1144

Seems like you are trying to go with bird in hand concept and looking for support for that. UIC is a good school but won’t count it as a great medical school based on ranks (50+) and you have two better ranked/reputed ones in Chicago itself. After T20, rank matters much. Even T20 rank matters only when you want to get into academic medicine or residency at T20 programs. If those things don’t matter to you and you are risk averse, go with GPPA. As they say in Shark Tank, I am out :smile:

1145

@HKimPOSSIBLE I have been following this thread for awhile, mostly silently. Much has been said and the only thing I will add is that I attended my state university, not far from my home, for reasons of cost. After my first year, I lived off campus within walking distance of campus. I worked to put myself through school and did not have much of the “residential experience.” I did have excellent professors and classmates and made lifelong friends. It was fine and prepared me well for the professional life I wanted to lead.

However, as a parent, I see what a LAC experience has been like for one of my own kids and I wish I had been able to do something like that. Had money been no object, I would have jumped at the chance. You have four or five LACs that are offering a full ride. All would prepare you well for medical school. I understand the desire to minimize uncertainty but TBH, you seem like you will meet your goals wherever you land. So why not pick an experience that is potentially more enriching and wouldn’t involve 1.5 hours of commute per day?

If I were your parent, I’d favor Mac for its relatively easy access to the Chicago area as well as the urban diversity and professional opportunities available in the Twin Cities.

I will conclude by wishing you the best of luck as you move forward. Your resilience and perseverance will be invaluable as you progress towards a medical degree.

1146

You’ve shown tremendous grit and grace these past two admissions cycles while working so hard toward your goal.

And the fact that you have had the maturity to listen to all these different adults and consider their input for so long is amazing – much more than your typical 18/19 year old would be up for!

I still remember when you got your document that ensures your future American citizenship and how it brought tears to my eyes the moment I saw the post! I’m glad you are part of our country’s future – we need you.

I don’t have much to say that hasn’t already been said, but FWIW, I also encourage the full ride LAC option. It seems like a golden ticket to me, and I think it’d allow you to stop and smell the roses more while also getting you where you want to go.

Whatever you decide, you will be successful. And thanks for sharing your story; it’s been hella (as the kids say!) ride!

1147

Totally agree with your assessment but you seem unsure of yourself. Which is understandable but it’s seems everyone believes in you more then you do yourself. Hmmm… What if you do the UIC program and don’t hit the markers to get into med school? Nothing, not even this program is really guaranteed.

Both my kids took the road less traveled. My son used to be very linear like you and wanted the sure thing. Can’t blame him. Right there is front of him. Just reach out and grab it. Then he did a thing we call “betting on yourself”. Take a chance on yourself. It’s not like your a screw up or something like that… Lol… Came out of left field and all I can say is that his experience made him grow to someone he is today
He got to explore a different side of himself. That wouldn’t of happened if he took the sure thing. He is still at his end goal but the experiences that he endured along the way has made him a more complete, intellectual and interesting person.

Have faith in yourself and “bet” on yourself.

1148

Hi @HKimPOSSIBLE. I have been mourning the loss of USC and regret like you, that they could not offer more FA support without loans to the wonderful Questbridge cohort they admitted. But you were correct to drop them, and it seems like you are down to two, even though W & L is still in the official running.

I thought UIC GPPA was out of the running earlier, but truly appreciate your thought process and understand why it is a compelling choice for you. I think you also see the benefits of what Bowdoin has to offer. At this point, I just want to say again, how impressed I am with your maturity and decision-making process. I trust you will make the correct decision and support whatever that is. You don’t owe anything to Chicago, or to this devoted thread of parents and posters who you’ve enthralled and delighted for over a year. Just make the best decision for you, and then let’s see how those of us cheering you on can further assist you to execute that choice for your career goals and self-development.

Huge congratulations for all that you have achieved in one short year. Please stay involved with CC to update us periodically. You are a star in the making and I, for one, want to follow your college and medical career in the years to come!

1149

@Lindagaf , I was thinking that people would probably take issue with the expression infantilising, but couldn’t think of a better way of expressing it. Still can’t, though I have to, if you feel it is insulting towards students like your daughter. I’m sorry if it comes across that way.

I stand by the concept, though. I have called it the European perspective and figured that the OP, who is from an immigrant family himself, if not from Europe, could take it and might find it helpful.

I’ll throw out the claim that if you don’t know how the vast majority of European students live and study, you don’t know what I’m talking about. Even Oxford and Cambridge - you know how people always throw out those dire warnings to US high school students, how the UK system will treat them like adults and expect them to be oh so independent? Continental Europeans in Oxford would roll their eyes and call it “one giant preschool”.

Did they love it? He!! yeah. Did they work their butts off there? He!! yeah. Did they feel they were living like adults otherwise? He!! no.

Would I have loved the LAC experience? He!! yippie yeah! Would I have felt I was living like a grown up . He!! no. Silly example, but I would have been drinking legally for four years, if I had cared about such things). Is it sour grapes on my part if I tell OP that I understand why the idea of “doctor in Chicago from day one, no hook up culture on campus” appeals to him? Maybe.

I’d still tell him to go to Bowdoin, though. He’s got all the rest of his life to be an adult. :wink:

1150

Of the non-UIC options, wouldn’t Macalester be in a better location for getting to medical school interviews on short notice than Bowdoin or W&L?

1151

Sorry, but commuting really stinks - please don’t pay extra to commute 2 hours a day.

Have you tallied the commute and food costs that you will incur going to the BS/MD program? That will certainly be more than the cost of flying home between semesters. Plus there are many other free perks (social, tech, and otherwise) you will get at Bowdoin as a full ride student. Did Bowdoin’s offer say anything about laptop costs? Software? All those things you probably have to pay as commuter to UIC.

OP, you were talking about med school rankings and prestige in some of your posts - I feel like that is somewhat important to you. I feel like after a few years at the BS/MD, if you end up with a high MCAT - you will be looking to apply to IVY level med schools anyway, incurring all the costs of that for which you are thinking of making the decision now to avoid. I believe you’d be a stronger applicant to top med schools coming from Bowdoin - at a MUCH lower cost. Think about that.

1152

Given the current situation, the next few years may not be a great time to be on any LAC campus, but a state school with a medical option sounds like a very safe bet for a fulfilling life. Good luck, and congrats.

1153

The pandemic is not going to last years. Bowdoin and W& L have huge endowments and may experience little in the way of negative repercussions. We should all remember that those colleges have withstood the Spanish Flu, the Great Depression and two world wars. I’d a million times over rather be on one of those campuses than commuting to an urban commuter campus if indeed things turn out to be economically grim.

1154

OP…reading the above comments made me think about your FA at UIC…are your full tuition grants guaranteed for the 3 years of undergrad?

1155

@Mwfan1921 Well the pell grant and map grant would cover a little more than half, and then my renewable Presidential scholarship would cover most of the costs if UIC decides to ever give no university grants!

@suzyQ7 Well to be fair, Bowdoin’s annual cost of $4500 (work study) should be similar to Metra + food costs - I promise I won’t be eating out everyday haha.

Bowdoin does not cover costs of laptops at all. However it lets me use the $5500 as a one time use for a laptop - UIC does so as well to buy “supplies” in general including a laptop.

Thought I can’t imagine any laptop even as close to $5500 haha.

1156

Sounds like the Presidential is renewable, but is it guaranteed? Are there certain criteria for its renewal?

MAP grants are probably the most at risk of these three sources…how much is that? Illinois was having financial difficulties prior to covid-19, and already has gone thru periods where they didn’t fund MAP.

1157

So your Bowdoin offer is they cover all costs except you have to kick in work study @$4500?

1158

@HKimPOSSIBLE, one thing I’d look at in today’s uncertain climate is how each of these schools has handled coronavirus planning. Most schools had information on line for students which you should be able to access. You can also ask for firsthand accounts on the school specific pages. My kids’ school, a peer of Bowdoin, had emergency transportation funds available for students who needed them and gave grants for the work study kids weren’t able to do when they moved off campus.

1159

What is the GPA requirement to keep the Presidential scholarship?

1160

@Mwfan1921 has good point re: public financial aid dollars. Private universities are highly unlikely to claw back a current scholarship (like the Johnson) or students on need-based aid. If they are financially stretched, they will offer fewer spots the following years to reduce their costs. With state aid, there’s less guarantee, if at all, they will ‘grandfather’ in current recipients. I have firsthand experience with this – used to work for a foundation that funded a prestigious scholarship program; we reduced number of full rides after the last great recession but kept recipients already in school ‘whole’. This was considered best practice across similar scholarships, including the Johnson.

So from that perspective it’s reasonable to assume Bowdoin and W&L are the most financially secure options. Also, both these colleges are ranked very highly by Forbes in terms of financial health.