One advantage of going to a school with a graduate program in your discipline is that you can often take graduate classes (with permission) as an upper-level undergraduate, or you can access more research resources to do a senior thesis/honors project that allows you to explore a topic more deeply (a school doesn’t have to have a grad program to have a thesis option, but if they do, it could mean that you’d have more resources to tap into). Grad programs won’t care one way or another if you graduate college early, but they do look for signs that you can distinguish yourself in your discipline, and a department with a graduate program might allow you to do that by challenging yourself beyond the undergrad major.
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Okay. Unfortunately, Tulsa’s math offerings are actually way too sparse. They have a number of advanced calculus and differential equations class, but seem to have very little depth in any other area of mathematics. Very applied-math focused. They don’t even offer real analysis, unless I’m missing it and it goes by another title. Only introductory courses to abstract algebra, topology, and number theory.
I was planning on majoring in theoretical mathematics, not applied (my one applied math course so far has pretty solidly confirmed this), so that’s a no-go unfortunately, NM scholarship or not.
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OK - so if WASU has what you want and you can afford it, then don’t look back. And you’ll graduate earlier!!!
Best of luck.
Nothing wrong with WASU.
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@outerproduct I have empathy as a parent and former teacher for what you are describing as your situation in your high school. I once served as the sole AP teacher in an under-resourced school and had a student in my one AP class who was capable of moving at AP pace but his classmates were not due to a lack of background knowledge. He also ended up at a public university. I still remember this over ten years later because I felt like I couldn’t challenge him enough.
I hope that you can find happiness as a student at USW. You should be able to take more classes as an undergraduate than a dual enrollment student. Unfortunately, it is difficult for people who have not worked or attended school in various types of schools to understand how disparate high school resources can be. They don’t have enough direct experience with different high schools to understand it even when they try to. Don’t let these rejections affect you for another day. You made it through the pandemic, continued challenging yourself with the access that you had in your community, followed your strengths, and that effort will pay off long past the time you will spend as an undergrad.
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Yes, should call Tulsa. I’d be surprised if TU does not make an exception for OP given their strong commitment to building a freshman class filled with as many NMSF/F as possible. TU really made my son feel wanted and even though he ultimately decided to go elsewhere, we have nothing but respect for the school and would be rooting for TU to gain broader national recognition and rise in rankings.
Given OP’s math proficiency, if he wishes he could start doing research with a faculty right away at TU, on topics that require deeper math, that most undergraduates students aren’t ready for. For example, TU’s CS department has faculty members doing federally funded, theoretical research that could make use of advanced math (not the engineering types) such as Galois field that OP mentioned.
Because my son at one point was serious about pursuing CS/engineering at TU, we checked out some of their faculty members’ publications to see if it’s common that undergraduates who did research with them publish their results. Most papers don’t contain such info, but there were a few that did include author bios at the end, and we saw several who were undergrads at the time the work was done. Now while this is true in most places, I suspect that the percentage of authors who are undergrads is higher at TU than at most schools given how small TU is and its relatively small graduate student body. OP could do the same and have a couple of solid publications under his belt by the time he graduates, which would make him attractive to top graduate schools.
As for graduate school placement, most TU graduates who attended graduate school did not go to “prestigious” ones (most stayed in Oklahoma). However, a few did end up at top 10 schools — just google “Tulsa outcome.” OP appears perfectly capable of making that jump.
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I could theoretically start doing research - but with what background knowledge? I could try to find some niche area to research, but my point was that Tulsa doesn’t offer advanced enough courses to reach the cutting edge of most theoretical math subjects. It isn’t that there isn’t more known about those subjects, it’s just that Tulsa doesn’t offer advanced courses about them. I’m rather confused how research opportunities would fix that problem. I’ve got a lot to learn about Galois theory before I’d feel even halfway confident doing research about it. At the end of my current Abstract Algebra course, I’ve reached the outer edge of Galois theory, the background in field extensions necessary to understand what Galois theory is even talking about. That’s a far stretch from understanding the current state of research about the subject. WASU seems like it offers considerably more potential depth, unless I’m missing something, because it also has a graduate math program.
There are “special topic” classes in math, but what that means could vary considerably, and doesn’t seem like something wise to rely on.
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There is grad school there too but if WSU works, go forth and kick butt!!
A student who has been fully admitted to the Graduate School first meets with the graduate advisor for mathematics to plan a program of study through to the completion of the degree. The program is subject to change by mutual consent, but a current version remains on file.
From TU
Students must gain 30 credit hours by enrollment in approved courses, which include all 7000-level mathematics courses offered by the department and certain other courses (with a maximum of 6 credit hours from outside the department) subject to approval by the graduate advisor. No more than 12 credit hours of 6000-level course work will be counted toward the graduate degree.
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I’m don’t know if it’s still possible to get the NMF merit at UT Dallas, but their regular admissions deadline is May 1st, so you could check and potentially fire off an app quickly. Excellent STEM school with excellent NMF merit, if the merit is still possible. I doubt running out of math courses would be a problem there! Same with U of Arizona.
Still, it sounds like WSU is affordable for you, and has the course offerings you need. It’s a well-respected school that won’t hold you back in terms of graduate admissions. It’s not what you dreamed of, and I know you already feel “BTDT” about it, but the quality of your experience as a fully-matriculated student could surprise you.
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I agree with you that Tulsa isn’t a good alternative. Not only are its math courses limited, but also it likely wouldn’t give nearly as many course credits as WSU would. Most colleges either give no credit or very limited credits for courses taken at other colleges, especially advanced courses in the major. It appears to me that you’ve taken many 400- and 500-level courses at WSU:
https://catalog.wsu.edu/Pullman/Courses/BySubject/MATH
Even at WSU, your math options are limited. IMO, you should aim to complete its general education requirements and take a few advanced math/graduate level courses (especially in areas you’re interested in pursuing research) that you haven’t taken there and the special project/independent study course (Math 600) every semester (choosing a different topic each semester). For researches, try to find some professor(s) whose research areas interest you (you may even be able to work with professors at other colleges in some cases). Research is critical to grad school admissions.
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My main concern is that I’ll take all the advanced math courses I can as an undergraduate, and then be completely unprepared for real world graduate research despite doing well. The classes I’ve had have definitely required thinking outside the box to do some proofs, but for the most part, if you understand the material, you’ll do well on the exams. Being good at understanding proofs and good at generating them require different skillsets though, so if I go somewhere where I develop the former skill much better than the latter, I could understand the modern research on a topic perfectly, and simultaneously have absolutely no success in actually expanding knowledge about it.
I suspect I’ll have fun at WSU. If my current experience is an indication, I’ll have quite a bit of free time, I’ll learn a lot, and I won’t have a ton of debt. But I also might be unprepared for the level of creativity and problem solving necessary for real research afterwards.
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If you go to WSU, I’d recommend getting in touch ASAP with some of your favorite math professors there and ask about doing research with them. You might even be able to start this summer. You should definitely ask about ways you can get paid for it, if that’s available.
They can also help you apply for REU programs. It can be hard to get positions for first-year students, but you’d be much more likely than a typical first-year. This could help you get some summer experience with more advanced subjects while still attending WSU. And all your WSU profs had to do their own PhD’s, so there will be at least some who have fun projects you can work on during the school year.
WSU also lists internships and other opportunities for income and enrichment
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I understand the concern; and I’m not knowledgeable enough about WSU (or advanced mathematics!) to address it.
Have you tried delving into MIT Open Courseware on the topics you have studied already at WSU? That might enhance what you have learned and give you an idea of how much depth is (or isn’t) missing from the WSU courses. Search | MIT OpenCourseWare | Free Online Course Materials
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I may have missed it, but why is Alabama and its NMF full ride not being considered? Also agree that UT Dallas should be researched.
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That’s an interesting idea. I’m not really concerned about the WSU courses not teaching in enough depth, they’ve generally covered material both pretty quickly and thoroughly, but accessing external problem sets could help with the feeling that I wasn’t getting good enough at actually applying my knowledge.
Seems a bit strange to think that a good solution to my problem is intentionally doing double the homework as practice, but it would probably be effective.
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It’s probably a good idea financially. I’ve been more concerned with the challenge of courses than the cost, and I don’t know if Alabama would improve that axis, so I wasn’t looking into it as much as possibilities that were potentially more challenging.
I’ve got a pretty good offer with WSU due to being a NMF along with other scholarships, so decreasing cost isn’t paramount, although if WSU has no other advantages over Alabama it might be a good option. I’d have to look into credit transfer especially.
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Here are the math catalog listings at University of Alabama:
https://catalog.ua.edu/undergraduate/arts-sciences/mathematics/courses/
https://catalog.ua.edu/graduate/arts-sciences/mathematics/courses/
And University of Texas - Dallas:
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Seems like solid advice. I know much more math than most high school graduates, but I’m still very aware of the huge amount of stuff I’m still completely clueless about. Because of that I wonder how much research I’d be currently equipped to handle, but perhaps I’m overestimating the amount of knowledge necessary to get involved in research. I don’t have a sense of scope yet about how much there’s still out there to learn about some of these subjects that doesn’t require advanced knowledge about them. I know some subjects are considered essentially solved, but I don’t know how many aren’t, and how far I’d have to dig to reach new territory.
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For REUs, any advisor would be able to assign you the relevant background literature that you may be lacking from taking courses. You may be able to arrange an independent study credit to complete this work or you can do it on your own, depending on what any willing advisor would be willing to take on. The challenge is in finding someone who is willing to work with you and with whom you will work well. This is at least as important as finding an advisor who is actively doing research in an area that interests you. Good luck!
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I don’t think you’ll have trouble finding a research mentor at all. Many of them will take regular freshman. Your advanced status means you’d be more competitive for opportunities that would be available to sophomores and above, which includes the REUs. If you apply for REUs and/or internships in the fall, I bet you’ll have something lined up for your first summer after freshman year, possibly paid. Just be sure to talk to profs and get started early. I’m sure you’ll find at least one who is delighted to help you.
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