<p>My daughter has been rejected from all the audition programs she applied to (Emerson, Ithaca, Purchase, Fredonia) We haven't heard from Syracuse and CMU yet but given results so far, chances are slight for a BFA program. She is academically extremely strong and will be choosing between Vassar, Skidmore, Muhlenberg, Cornell, and possibly Yale for a BA (BS at Skidmore). Any thoughts on which of these non-audition schools she should choose? She would love to do musical theatre but as a light lyric soprano acting is more realistic (not a belter).</p>
<p>One of my D’s friends is a freshman at Skidmore and she has been cast as a lead in the musicals there. She loves it. On the other hand, if your D really wants to go into MT, Muhlenberg seems to be the best place to get a strong MT education (out of the schools you listed). If she wants to major in something else entirely, but still do MT on the side in student groups, Cornell is a great school with a strong student run MT group called The Melodramatics Theater Company. And Yale has a bunch of MT classes that undergraduates can take as electives.</p>
<p>I agree that if MT is what she really wants to do, she can get strong well-rounded training at Muhlenberg.</p>
<p>If she is at the academic caliber of the ivies then I would send her there if she has had a string of rejections at musical theatre auditions. She will find many opportuinites to sing and act at Yale or Cornell. She will also have the opportunity to take voice lessons. In my opinion, if she goes to a school like Muhlenberg, she will not be challenged enough by the academics. And might not get the roles she wants that would make it a worthwhile choice.</p>
<p>The realities of the musical theatre world is that they are looking for voices that can belt and that can sing scores that are more and more rock/pop sounding. They are also seeking strong dancers. Look up the shows that have been produced by the “musical theatre” schools on your list and see if daughter will have enough roles that she can honestly say she will be competitive for. (Muhlenberg in particular really stresses dance.)</p>
<p>Roles for (light) lyric sopranos are generally the ingenue of a show. Does your D look that part? As much as you don’t want there to be type-casting, there is. Before she gives up the opportuinity to go to a school like Cornell or Yale, I would want her to have a very realistic idea of what her chances are for success in the musical theatre world.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Beyond the overall choice of school, of course, you must consider the training that would be available to your daughter. Everyone who enters Muhlenberg is a BA in drama, music, or dance, etc. Those who have auditioned are doing so for scholarship only. I believe the training she would still receive at Muhlenberg, if that is what she still wants, is excellent. There are multitudes of opportunity for performance at many levels. Finally, the academics are still quite challenging. My daughter transferred from Franklin and Marshall to major in theatre at Muhlenberg where she’ll graduate this year. She has taken private voice, dance classes which she desires and much much more. I believe she found the academics enriching and especially the acting training excellent. Keep in mind that if a school has a heavy grad program, you should explore and get honest answers about performance opportunities for non major undergrads. Just a note on productions which give you a taste of talent/training over a couple years at least, we’ve seen many musicals by now - from UMich, Northwestern, Baldwin Wallace, Otterbein, Elon, and Muhlenberg, etc and I would put Muhlenberg right there in the mix with some of them. Some would say there straight shows even surpass some of the BFA’s. This is very subjective, of course, but I would private message some folks who’ve been admitted to all of the schools you mentioned, see where else they were accepted, why they chose their school and how are they faring. Most will be pretty helpful here. Good luck to you as you decide!</p>
<p>Which diploma will she be proudest of in 4 years? If she gets into Yale it seems like a no-brainer.</p>
<p>Yale nay-sayer here. My daughter was admitted to Yale and ultimately turned them down as she felt that in order to truly “do” MT she would have to work too hard to create her own major with little guidance. Believe me, my husband tried very very hard to convince her otherwise. He even set up meetings with former grads currently involved in Musical Theatre/Theatre and had her visit some special MT program (I forget which now) during Bulldog Days. It was a tough decision but once she made it she’s never looked back! She is currently a Junior at Northwestern which is unfortunately not on your list. </p>
<p>I understand some concern regarding the academics at Muhlenberg but she was looking at Ithaca, Syracuse and Fredonia which are not particularly academically challenging either. I know three kids at Muhlenberg, two for Theatre and they are very happy with their programs. (Don’t think they’re “Yale Material” but still bright kids.) Skidmore is another great option for a Theatre program, probably a bit more flexible and creative as a whole than Muhlenberg and again, not a “slacker” school. I do know an adult couple who attended Cornell in the 80’s and are now very ensconced in the MT/T world for which they totally credit Cornell. Don’t know too much about Vassar except for their Powerhouse Theatre which is a great company and I believe has some great summer possibilities for students. </p>
<p>That’s my review from my experiences. I think the first thing your daughter should delve into is the college websites and their programs specifically. She should read the catalog (available on college websites) requirements for the major and the class descriptions, she should see how many productions each school offers and how many student run productions also. I would also arrange for a phone conversation with a dean or professor in her major asking specific questions, philosophy, etc. of their program. All this can be done without yet visiting any schools. If this research is successful then she should be able to narrow down the list a bit and then you could arrange visits. Remember, they’ve admitted your daughter so she’s now in the driver seat, don’t be afraid to ask lots of questions.</p>
<p>Your daughter was smart - she did not limit her options and therefore she now has some really great options even without the BFA option. Oh, and btw, it doesn’t matter if it’s a BA or a BS to anyone other than the college or university from which she is graduating. My daughter is actually getting a BS because she hates languages and opted out of the language requirement that is needed for a BA, who cares? Hasn’t kept her from performing professionally!</p>
<p>I think the issue isn’t whether a school is an ivy or not. There is no doubt that Northwestern is an excellent school with very high standards for academics. I can see someone deciding to go to Northwestern vs. an ivy and I am sure that their peer group will be very comparable as well as the caliber of their classes. Plus the theater department at Northwestern is top rate–so you have a win-win situation!</p>
<p>But I do think the gap between Muhlenberg and Yale/Cornell is substantial. True there are great kids in all these schools, but in the end the two groups of students are very different academically. I know many many kids who have chosen Muhlenberg in many different fields of study and have been quite happy. But not one of these kids could have gotten into an ivy instead. Most are B+/A- students.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg does offer great theatre/dance/ music training. And there are many very talented kids who go there who have chosen Muhlenberg becasue they want a more well rounded education (vs. some BFA programs.)</p>
<p>How does the OP’s D fare in the pool of Muhlenberg students talent wise? Has she auditioned for their music/ dance and theatre scholarships? Whether or not she wins these talent scholarships would be another indication of how she stacks up among her peers talent wise.</p>
<p>If she has does not get any talent money from Muhlenberg, I would certainly think long and hard about her chances to succeed there on a level that would make giving up the opportunity to attend an ivy-caliber school worthwhile.</p>
<p>(PS–The reason that I am bringing up Muhlenberg from the OP’s list is because I personally do not feel that the theatre/ music opportunities at Vassar and Skidmore would be as good as Muhlenberg’s and if that is the case, I would easily choose Yale or Cornell over each.)</p>
<p>Also did D apply for the Filene’s scholarship in music at Skidmore (and get a call-back)? Again, if this is a no–it points to the fact that academics may be OP’s D’s strong suit vs talent. (Especailly since the Filene award wanted classical voice which should be great for OP’s daughter’s lyric soprano voice.)</p>
<p>Thank you all. Academically, she is strong (valedictorian, SAT 2110) but Yale is still a stretch. She is a double legacy at Cornell so has a better shot there. Muhlenberg has asked her to apply for a DANA fellowship and has hinted this means she will be accepted. We visited Skidmore and saw a play that was great but she did not like the campus and was not a finalist for the music scholarship, and they do not have other merit aid. She can go to Vassar for free but doesn’t want to because her father teaches there (not in Drama) and she wants to get out of Poughkeepsie. Vassar will pay half tuition elsewhere so we were looking for something that was at that level but not Vassar. I had heard negatives about Cornell theatre, although it was great when I lived in Ithaca 25 years ago. Any feedback on Cornell theatre today?</p>
<p>In terms of casting type she is 17 but looks 14 and is petite. (They always offer her the children’s menu). Her voice purity and range is similar to Charlotte Church but she still needs to develop it. A perfect Cosette but can’t do the sexy belt roles she would love.</p>
<p>amtc - I tried to encourage her to look at Northwestern (my dad went there) but she didn’t want to go that far away from home. Too bad.</p>
<p>I agree with Yale if that is an option!</p>
<p>uskoolfish – Muhlenberg told her to wait to come in for scholarship audition because of the offer of academic merit program, indicating she would be accepted without auditioning and likely get some merit aid. We hope to visit in April and sit in on a class. She’s a really good actress but not a belter, so I suspect she would not get a performance scholarship even though her voice is incredibly beautiful in tone and purity. Atmc – Her voice teacher, a nationally known opera singer, was surprised she has not gotten any offers in MT programs and stunned she was not a finalist at Skidmore. Only a beginning dancer, so you are right she might not get the roles at Muhlenberg. Thank you all so much for the input.</p>
<p>The Cornell Theater group - Melodramatics I believe it’s called is doing Spring Awakening - opening April 5th. I know this because we are going to go see it when we go visit Ithaca - as the cast is made up of some kids from Cornell and some from Ithaca MT. Maybe check it out if you can!</p>
<p>Muhlenberg will certainly give her great acting training. Not sure what her success for getting into musicals will be there as the program is so large - but if shes a good actor then there are also all the straight plays they do. I know they have an honors program as well and I bet the kids in there are pretty sharp. </p>
<p>But, if she gets into Yale - Id say go there!!</p>
<p>Mamjen–If Muhlenberg is a serious consideration, D should definitely be auditioning for talent scholarships through the music/ theatre and possibly dance departments. (Each is a separate audition.)</p>
<p>Older D won a Dana scholaship, a music scholarship and an art scholarship that allowed her to max out at their $19.5 merit limit. This was 4 years ago.</p>
<p>They have since raised their maximum to $20K ( I believe.) Younger D applied this year. She had a great interview and we were told by the admissions counselor that she would estimate her merit aid to be in the $12 - $15K range. (She was not including a Dana scholarship in the mix since her test/score GPA was a little below their criteria.) The $12- $15K amount was for academic/community service merit aid. It did NOT include any talent $ (which is given out separatly by each department.) The admissions counselor said that with the additional talent money from music and art that she could most likely max out at the $20K limit.)</p>
<p>Dana Scholarship by itself is worth about $6K if I remember correctly. It is very possible that they plan on giving her additional merit scholarships to get to the $20K number, but I would check with them to make sure since otherwise you can be missing out on an opportunity to add talent money to the mix.</p>
<p>Also Muhlenberg offered to do an early merit aid estimate even before she applied.</p>
<p>In the end, D withdrew after she got accepted at NYU ED.</p>
<p>Good luck!!</p>
<p>In my opinion, the MT opportunities at Yale are abundant, not to mention the challenging academics. I know several highly talented MT kids who chose Yale over BFA programs. Of course getting in there is a long shot for anyone, even if qualified, given the very low acceptance rate. I have a D (not my MT D) who also was valedictorian like your D, but with higher SATs than your D, who was deferred at Yale in EA and ultimately denied in RD the year she applied. She attended another Ivy. I agree with uskoolfish that the academic level of her peers at Muhlenberg will not be what they are at Yale. For a student like your D, Muhlenberg is a SAFETY school and Yale is a REACH school. Skidmore would have been in between. At Skidmore she could major in a very strong theater department and double major in music. They put on student run musicals. But if she didn’t like the school that much, than that’s that. I think Cornell and Vassar would be better than going to Muhlenberg as well, but ultimately it is about personal fit and not what anyone else would prefer.</p>
<p>My daughter sounds alot like yours and although she did not apply there she would go Yale in a heartbeat. Muhlenberg was not even remotely interesting to her even as a safety although MT is her primary interest. She also looks very young and was offered a child’s ticket on the train to college auditions. Best of luck. She will be fine.</p>
<p>Well put Soozievt! I agree.</p>
<p>I agree that Muhlenberg has a very strong program and she will do well there… but if she gets accepted to Yale, in my mind that would be the way to go. My younger daughter, an actress/singer went the BA route and she has friends from high school who she performed with who went to Yale and Harvard for undergrad. At both schools there are many performance opportunities. Cornell would offer the same and there are several legit theatres in Ithaca that offer training and summer programs as well.</p>
<p>Until you get the decisions from all the schools mentioned, I would not even TRY to make this decision. Yale is obviously a reach for even a valedictorian, and as crazy as it is… 2100’s on SATs is low for Yale. If she gets in there then YES she should not even consider Muhlenberg or Skidmore.
I agree Northwestern would have been the acceptable compromise, but that is not an option now. If she doesn’t get into Yale, Cornell and Vassar are still excellent schools. (Vassar was good enough for Meryl Streep!)
Obviously if she gets into the BFA MT programs at either Syracuse or CMU, then you know she’s got what it takes… and she should go there.
Good luck and try not to fret too much. She is in a very enviable position.</p>
<p>It is indeed premature to be counting our chickens before they are hatched, and Yale is a HUGE reach. Her SAT’s are uneven (790/620/710) and I am regretting telling her not to bother studying and taking them only once, but we were assuming they would not matter if she was going for performing arts. Her grades are stellar, but it is a small rural HS which might hurt us. </p>
<p>The big reason I was asking for opinions now was to reassure her that the remaining options are still good ones. Right now she is devastated by the rejections and feels like a real failure. She’s also feeling guilty about the time and money spent on auditions. </p>
<p>We do have an indication she will likely get in to Muhlenberg. At Vassar, faculty kids generally get in if they meet the academic standards (and there would be a lot of faculty worried about their own kids if a faculty kid who was valedictorian was denied), so we are quite optimistic there. We hope she will have a good shot at Cornell as a double legacy who also meets the academic standards. Skidmore we are unsure of, but if she gets in I would like to revisit as I was impressed with the faculty we met and the quality of the production we saw. Also, the BS they offer is more intensive than a BA – about 60% of classes in your major. Maybe she will like the campus better in springtime, who knows?</p>
<p>Meryl Streep did go to Vassar, then got an MFA at Yale. There are other successful alums also, but Vassar does not offer Musical Theatre and my D really wants to try living somewhere besides Poughkeepsie. On the plus side, she could probably continue with the same voice teacher. And of course the biggest plus is it would be free. I am very grateful to all of you for your helpful suggestions and encouragement. This audition process has been gruelling for me as well.</p>