Thanks for the info. Our school did not use that particular software package.
I will check, I think we used to use Naviance but then switched to something else. I suspect my son will be an outlier but who knows maybe I will be surprised.
Not all schools have naviance or class rank. Our kids’ HS doesn’t have either. Lots of kids go to top schools each year (name any well known school, kids from our HS go there), but with 850+ kids in the class and no clues from the counseling staff, it’s hard for the kids to rank themselves.
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Our school too graduates 700+ per year and I have been told that the school doesn’t like giving out class rankings. I suspect it is to maximize the chances for everyone of their students. Otherwise, there would be a huge parental outcry.
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You will also see which of those are ED vs EA etc. Those are just dots on a chart. Your counsellor can sometimes tell you which of those dots may be hooked applicants, and you can handicap yourself appropriately. And then you pick some 20 schools where you are not on the fringe of the distribution, but lightly stretching yourself, you will do well.
Many colleges have some majors where the sponsoring department is running at full instructional capacity, so (in the short term) that they must limit the size of those majors to what the department can handle. The colleges may not have the budget to increase department size, and doing so may be risky if the demand for the major subsequently shrinks after it has added more tenured faculty.
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schools send out profiles of the class - in which the gpa ranges are given - so the colleges have some gauge on where you fall - not exact # but %; and thats more fair
ive heard of parents having kids take certain non H and non AP classes over the summer or even not take a non weighted class to allow for more H and AP for max gpa boost
its all smoke and mirrors
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Makes sense. But I don’t remember this being a thing way back. Maybe outlay on faculty hires has become fiscally tighter. Certainly, it hasn’t for the supporting bureaucracy. I imagine that is why college tuitions have continued to outstrip the rise in inflation.
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I’ve never seen improving ones looks to increase the chances of getting into an Ivy League… school discussed anywhere. Should we give our girls makeovers before applying to college? Put them on a strict diet? Get them into the gym to get buff? That’s ridiculous, and really horrifying. What a sad state we are in if your child did not get into their dream school because the guy next door was better looking. Americans put WAY too much emphasis on looks. Ugh.
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- It’s expensive. Most kids are not getting fee waivers.
- It’s stressful if 5 extra schools require supplements. There is ZERO point doing supplements if you don’t put 100% effort into them. As a tutor who works with dozens of applicants every fall, I know just how much effort each supplement can take. A student can easily spend 3-4 hours on a 200 word supplement.
- It’s a waste of time to apply to colleges that a student has no intention of attending. Bragging rights are stupid, and I guarantee that the vast majority of students applying to 15+ schools are simply applying to anything in USNWR top 20.
- It does NOT improve the odds. It is not a betting game!
- Why does a student need to apply to many UC’s? I’m going to be blunt and say that none of the kids applying to 20 schools actually want to go to Merced or Riverside. And probably not Davis either. (I’m from CA and I can say that, haha.)
- It starts to looks bad for the high school when their students apply to a bunch of colleges they have no intention of attending.
And 7. They can only go to one school.
I’m sure there are many other reasons.
I had a look at the poll posted today. A lot of students have ten or more colleges to choose from. Ridiculous. DECISION DAY POLLS: Which school did you pick?
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For colleges that use the Common Application school report filled in by the counselor, an approximate class rank is included. See the bottom of page 2, where the counselor ranks the student based on academic achievements, extracurricular accomplishments, personal qualities and character, and overall. The check boxes include below average, average, good, very good, excellent (top 10%), outstanding (top 5%), and one of the top few encountered in my career. At the most selective colleges, an unhooked applicant probably needs the last of these checked to have a reasonable chance of admission.
Whether the counselor checks the box for academic achievements by just looking at the (non-publicly disclosed) class rank or goes by some subjective determination probably depends on the school and counselor. For the other categories, that would be a subjective determination by the counselor.
Not publicly disclosing class rank may be an attempt to reduce rank grubbing and cutthroat behavior on the part of the students.
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at our schools, the primary classes have 4 levels, AP, honors, slightly above average and than average (which is actually way below average since most opt for honors and above); hitting a really really high gpa is not easy but getting above the threshold for graduating w honors is not too hard (prob at least half the class), particularly since it is a somewhat self selected student body of relatively smart children of parents w college and postgraduate degrees who either work as professionals or in industries requiring graduate level education or upper management types at the VP level, many of whom are good looking, tall, charismatic and athletic, as are their children (like J Crew catalogs); students then gravitate to the level which supports a high grade
is such information available for the student to see? I’ve been told that one can at least indirectly get this information and maybe even see one’s recommendation by asking the college you enroll in.
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Not likely that the college is going to give you a look at your recommendations.
But back to the subject of this thread. Many many kids with top stats don’t get accepted to every single college to which they apply.
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Naviance isn’t in all schools. However, even for those who do have it, it has some data that can be helpful showing results for students from that high school based on test scores and GPA. However, this isn’t that helpful and is limiting particularly when talking about highly selective colleges. Many applicants to such colleges have perfect GPAs and high test scores and the majority will be denied. Many other factors go into the admissions decisions.
I find many families don’t fully comprehend that even if their child is in the top 10% of their high school class, that when they apply to highly rejective colleges, most applicants also are in the top 10% of THEIR high school class…tons of students are in this category. The applicant pool is very concentrated with top students on the academic front. Some families have no comprehension of the level of extracurriculars and achievements and roles in these that some candidates who are competitive for such colleges have and don’t realize their kids’ activity resumes do not stand out in s much a concentrated talent pool.
I don’t agree with someone who said that a top student at some unknown public school may not be as competitive as many kids from a well regarded private school or very competitive public school. The latter type schools do have more students who have tippy top qualifications, and an unknown public school will not have as many of that type, but the ones at the top of those classes are every bit as much competitive and qualified. My own kids went to a rural public high school nobody here would have heard of. Just because they were raised in a rural area and their high school is not well known, doesn’t mean they don’t have the credentials to be competitive. One of my kids was val (#1, yes, they had ranking), and went to an Ivy. At her Ivy, she won the top award in her department at graduation and had a tippy top GPA and got into top graduate schools. My other kid got into one of the m most competitive performing arts programs in her field in the country, coming from a school without a drama program, and not attending a performing arts high school. She got a top scholarship there, and also got put into a highly selective honors group (just 15 selectied per year). She excelled at this top program and entered it at just age 16.
As to the question @ProudDad721 asked about the “advantage” of having a college counselor …we cannot guarantee to get your kid into a specific college. However, we add value in the sense of we know how to mentor your child prior to applying to college to make the most of their academic and extracurricular life to become a strong candidate, can realistically assess odds at particular colleges in relation to the individual student, help craft a realistic well balanced and appropriate college list that many do not do as well on their own, go about all the steps of the application process in ways that the family may not have thought to do quite as well (I see what some kids do on their own!), help organize, manage and pace the process, be an objective mentor as compared to a parent, and hopefully make the process a bit less stressful and overwhelming as we have expertise and experience that it could take a lot of time for a family to acquire on their own. It can, however, be done without a college counselor!!! One must really become knowledgeable about the process and take the time to learn about it (hence, CC helps!).
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Some types of majors have long had a reputation of often being harder to get admitted to than the college overall (or require a secondary competitive admission process later). Examples:
- Nursing.
- Engineering majors at many popular state flagships and colleges of similar selectivity.
- Computer science at many popular state flagships and colleges of similar selectivity.
- Business at many popular state flagships and colleges of similar selectivity.
Some characteristics that apply to some of the above majors:
- In those subjects, colleges must compete with non-academic employers to hire those who could become faculty.
- Facilities beyond faculty (and other instructional staff like graduate student TAs) must be provided (e.g. for nursing clinicals, engineering labs).
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I thought there was some freedom of information act that did compel schools …
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Fee waivers are a thing. And otherwise, the cost delta (of just this step) is 33%. You have a college counselor above suggesting visiting every school on the list (15 schools is their target number) which will cost much more than the extra 5 application fees.
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There is NOT “ZERO” point in doing supplementals without 100% effort. Plenty of kids re-use an essay from one school to the next because many schools are not creative in how they craft the supplementals.
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Never did I suggest applying to schools the kids has no intention of attending.
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It DOES improve the odds. The process has a high degree of obfuscated complexity. As such, from the applicant’s perspective much of the process is random and therefore it is akin to a betting game.
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Safety. Target. Reach. All are found within the UC system.
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Again, never suggested kids apply to schools they don’t intend to attend.
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And it would be nice to have a choice versus being forced to go to the only once they are accepted to. That they can only go to one school has no bearing on how many they apply to.
I don’t think this applies to your kid’s letters of recommendation.
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Depending on how long ago his sibling graduated, this could be a clue. The SATs have been recalibrated over the years. I have heard that scores are now ~60 points higher than they were in 2016, and ~150 points higher than they were prior to 1995. I can see this at my S22’s high school where literally dozens of students had SATs above 1500, and where 2 students scored 1600. Over a dozen had ACTs of 36. This is not a magnet or private, just a large public in a wealthy suburb.
Grade inflation has been even worse. When I graduated from the same high school in the 1980s, not a single student graduated with a 4.0. Now an unweighted 4.0 is commonplace. There are reports that grade inflation especially accelerated with the pandemic.
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