I know of a kid who chose Georgetown over Harvard, still scratching my head on that one. I know another kid who went to Duquesne when he was accepted at U Chicago, financial reasons there.
we’re midwest here. Top ranking colleges aren’t necessarily on people’s minds here, nor do people know how it all works. I’m just learning myself. Our neighbor kid is a URM. He’s smart! he was accepted into Cornell for this current year. Everyone around here thought that was cool, and of course he’d go. He thought he’d go too, because costs would certainly be low because he’s a URM. (but not low income).
but, that’s not how it turned out. He’s at (OUR STATE) Wesleyan, where he received big merit scholarships. This one surprised us; but money talks i guess. The difference in rankings is big.
For my D17 to decide not go to her first choice school (which, at this point would be Yale although she hasn’t visited there yet) and select a lower ranked school, the other school would have to make her an offer she couldn’t refuse (which at this point would likely require a minimum of something along the lines of full tuition or preferably a full ride). This would only happen if and only if she could truly see herself at the lower-ranked school and if she believes that it would be a good fit. It remains to be seen if that will happen, but she’s done her best to apply to places where – however remote – a full ride scholarship might be an option. That said, she had removed several schools that offered the possibility of full tuition and/or full ride scholarships from her original list as she felt that even with a full ride she wouldn’t want to go to those schools and would feel too guilty about turning down a full ride.
This reminds me of an old joke about what one would or wouldn’t be willing to do (specifically in terms of sexual favors) and how much money they would turn down (e.g., would you be willing to _____ with _____ for $100? How about $1K? What about $1 million? The punch line is something along the lines of “we’re all willing to prostitute ourselves, all we’re doing here is negotiating the price.”
@bgbg4us Why did anyone assume just being a URM would result in a large scholarship at Chicago? So much misinformation circulating!
^^^ yes, @itsgettingreal17 == lots of people around here think that way; that being a smart URM equals low college costs regardless of income. I’m guessing that’s because in our midwest area we have a very small middle or upper-middle class made of minorities. Its been documented, its lamented by our chamber of commerce, but that’s how it is. Most urms who do go on to highly ranked schools do so through major income-based opportunities (eg the gates millenium & questbridge girls from my daughters class last year). So when an upper middle class urm kid gets into cornel, it’s assumed it’s not going to cost much. . I do recommend reading this website to every one i meet any more with college age kids. SO interesting and informative.
personally if I applied again to college and could go anywhere I simply needed to turn in an application…I would go to a school like muhlenberg college or hendrix college. happy students, supportive professors, self contained clearly defined campus and most students live on campus. I do not care about ranking or prestige that elitist stuff drives me nuts.
those schools with hyper competitive students many who are pompous and went to that particular school for validation does not make for the best most supportive environment to learn and grow. (IMO)
@socalmom007 Having visited both Georgetown campus and Harvard campus, I am not surprised at all, especially if you want to pursue a career in Foreign Service.
@Hoggirl and all, Since it’s not my kid’s fault that he applied to Stanford and got in, I told him we have the money saved up for his Stanford’s undergraduate education, so he can go there if he wishes, and told him even though we love him to death, his dad might end up dying if he has to work hard to help him out with his graduate degree, so he can do whatever he wishes with the money we set aside. So I made my choice to give him our full support for whatever he decides. That’s that.
To my defense, if my kid was going to major in Comp Sci or engineering at Stanford, I wouldn’t hesitate, but for God’s sake, he’s going to major in Humanities and try to go into an area where he will contribute to society or something like that; that’s why I felt the way I did. Heck, if I felt there was a decent chance my kid could make a pile load of money from attending Stanford, I would have no hesitation but this simply is not the case for us. Anyway, I decided to give him our full support and just pray he doesn’t become a beggar after getting a Humanities degree from Stanford. I told my kid to be nice to engineers from Stanford so they can offer him a job in case they go on to establish the next Google. lol
@LoveTheBard I cannot fathom not entertaining a full scholarship at ANY university-- of course maybe its because my kids are not Yale material-- that said, they are plenty smart high ranking students and having many of them money is VERY important and a huge decision factor. I see for you it isn’t but for many it most certainly is
I will speak from personal experience on this (but not for my kids as they are too young to apply for college yet). I applied to college in the mid-90’s. I was admitted to Harvard, Yale, Emory, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Georgia, and SMU. I really wanted to go to SMU. But, SMU threw money at me. I was part of the second Hunt Scholars class at SMU. I didn’t fit in fully at SMU (very Greek university), but the choice worked for me. My undergraduate degree was free. I was able to do a junior year in the UK. That year abroad led to my exposure to a program in Scotland, which I applied for through and attended on a Fulbright Scholarship (again free). So, my master’s degree was free. I then went to law school. I, again, turned down Yale…but I did go to Georgetown. Is SMU in the same academic class as Yale, no. But, it worked for me. Has anyone ever really asked me were I went to college…no not really. Out of law school, people asked in interviews where you went. After the first job, though, they didn’t. Now, after practicing for many years, people don’t care. They just want the job done right at a reasonable price.
@websensation - At the risk of overstepping, telling your kid that “…he can go there if he wishes, [but] …his dad might end up dying if he has to work hard to help him out with his graduate degree, so he can do whatever he wishes…” is hardly giving your full and unwavering support. Will your son have to live with the guilt of having killed his father if perchance he chooses Stanford and you have a heart attack while he’s there?!?
My D17 is also a humanities kid and has expressed concern about “return on investment.” Our response is that it depends on what your criteria are with respect to defining what a ROI actually is – getting a great education? making lifelong friends? Invaluable! Can that happen at a lower ranked school? Certainly! Is it more likely to happen at a place where there are likely to be a greater number of intellectual peers? Probably…
And, lest you think a humanities degree is worthless, I suggest you read this Forbe’s article about the usefulness of liberal arts degrees for high tech companies:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2015/07/29/liberal-arts-degree-tech/#606c1f375a75
@toomanyteens - I never said that money was not a huge factor in D17s decision – it’s one of many. And she is an only child, so that makes a difference. The full-ride schools that D17 took off her list are ones that where she truly could not see herself attending and that did not jibe with the type of environment she craves. Even after her EA decision came in, she continued to apply to over a dozen schools and has submitted nearly two dozen scholarship applications. Just yesterday, she churned out four scholarship apps for WashU.
She wants to be around really smart kids engaged in exploring the life of the mind. It’s hard to find that everywhere… Will it matter professionally 20 years from now? Probably not. Does it matter now? Without a doubt!
There are many, many factors that go into making a decision like this and everyone has different criteria, depending on their circumstances.
@lovethebard In his response @websensation says grad school. I don’t think he was referring to Stanford and UG, but that his son is on his own for grad school if all of the $$ is use daily to pay for UG. (Of course, I am just an observer in this thread bc I can’t fathom the conversation from any direction bc close to $300,000 for UG is absolutely not a conversation I can relate to at all.)
@LoveTheBard I guess what I am saying is that being able to make the choice of “an environment that she craves” and rejecting without consideration places she can ‘truly not see herself attending’ sounds like a luxury that I cannot quite relate to – I gave my kids specific financial parameters and they need to find someplace that fits those - craved environments or not!
@Mom2aphysicsgeek - Yes, I know he was referring to grad school, but I was posing a hypothetical that showed the pitfalls of potentially giving a kid a guilt trip if something terrible were to happen. You never want to make a kid feel responsible for a parent’s death. That’s just not cool, no matter what the circumstances.
And yes, I understand the very fortunate position in which we find ourselves and are grateful that our daughter has choices. Ultimately, we trust that she will make a good decision. Her list was exceedingly well thought out and created with a number of parameters in mind – educational, financial, social, and geographic.
If it were me (knowing what I know now), I would have gone for a full ride scholarship at a good Honors College and invested money instead but again, my kid is not me, so he has to follow his own course. Anyway, my kid stopped applying to any college after he got into early action choice. He might even take a gap year and study abroad. I was just joking about having a heart attacking and dying to earn his tuition money; his tuition money is already set aside. It’s his to use on his education.
@websensation - I’m glad to hear that he’ll be able to make an informed, guilt-free decision. And I’m sorry if I gave you a hard time and/or overstepped, but I can tell you from experience that losing a parent is difficult, and one always tends to second guess one’s ability to change the course of events in those situations. Living with what-ifs and feeling like you drove your parents to an early grave shoud be avoided whenever possible.
@LoveTheBard I understand where you come from. However, I do fully understand that 95% of parents (just guessing) would not be in a situation to fully finance their kids’ undergraduate education to an expensive private colleges, including HYPSM. All I know is my kid “wants” to go to Stanford and pursue what he thinks are the opportunities available at Stanford. Also, because he will go into Int’l Relations/East Asian Studies (with the ability to speak multi languages at a high level), I do think having went to Stanford on his resume will help him in future.
But I did sit down with him and explained to him alternative ways he can use “his” money, such as investing, buying an apartment in future, using the money to go to a graduate school if he wishes etc. My kid is extremely appreciative that we stand ready to pay for his Stanford education. By the way, I don’t think I would have been able to “win” the argument against my wife because she was “ready to mortgage the house” to pay for our kid’s college education. 
Also, I don’t want any guilt feeling of having “prevented” my kid from pursuing his academic dream. I did tell him though that he should not believe the hype put out from colleges and that wherever he went, it’s really up to him. As a compromise, my kid did agree he would visit the Honors College if he receives one of top scholarships from that school.
I guess at the end, I was just venting at having to pay a lot of money. I also told him unequivocally that I would be just as happy, and maybe even more, if he decided to take a full ride scholarship at a nice Honors College at a public school, even if that Honors College did not have as good program as Stanford. One thing I loved about this Honors College is that they allow him to receive a lot of college credits for his AP tests.
Lastly, who knows? My financial situation may drastically change one or two years from now, and I may actually receive some financial aid from Stanford? Lol
we won’t pay full sticker price, and now that my son got Full Ride as National Merit Finalist… it is hard to compete.
You see, he can take full ride to public, and then he CAN still further his education at a top Private at Master’s level
However, we are now waiting on top private choices that had CSS and FAFSA, so will be interesting to see what they offer… since he wants Comp. Science, there a few that top in world that he applied to… and would be hard to say no, IF they come back with very good offer!! I-)
Son is applying to be a music major and he is waiting on USC, UCLA, UCs, Cal States, and a couple of (expensive) local private schools. I am a USC graduate and I would LOVE for him to go there. It has one of the top music programs in the nation. UCLA has a really good fit for his interests, and, well it’s UCLA so it would be hard to turn it down if he gets in. Several of our local Cal States are really geared for his major with excellent music programs, better than most of the UCs. Part of it is the money but also part of it is the draw of going to the school that has the toughest admission standards. Most likely he will be at grad school for a credential or masters in music or ed masters. We won’t qualify for need aid, so it’s not like “all the schools will cost the same.” In one way it’s good because where he goes is not dependent on his offer. It is bad because we will definitely be paying full cost unless he gets merit aid (and it won’t be a game-changing amount of aid). That being said, we would pay for USC but not necessarily for, say, Chapman.
For all the extra work that it takes to be admitted to a more selective school, it is hard psychologically and emotionally to send your kid off to a less selective school. You see your kid go through all of the late nights, the APs and honors classes, the extra push with the extracurricular, the summer programs, the test prep… and then to go to a Cal State where not much of it was even required to get in? That would be hard to support.
@“not a stage mom” That’s true only if you look at the high school experience solely as a plan for getting admitted to a top college, rather than a journey of learning for learning’s sake and self-discovery. I can easily support any school my D ultimately chooses and couldn’t care less about the ranking. Her choice will be based on much more and will be a good choice … and free.