<p>Both the applicant and the school counselor have to sign an agreement form when submitting an ED application that they understand and agree to abide by the ED policies. The only legit reason to not accept an ED acceptance is if you truly cannot afford to attend. Otherwise it is disingenuous and looks badly on the student AND the school.</p>
<p>Yes, I know how ED works. Back in the day, I applied and was accepted ED. My daughter has a pending ED application, and I had to sign a parent ED form for her.</p>
<p>If a student backs out of an ED acceptance without a legitimate reason, the college has reason for concern. But before blacklisting the school, they need to understand what happened. Was the student acting alone, against the best advice of the guidance counselor? Then punish the student by circulating his/her name to other colleges that he/she likely applied to. If the guidance staff is part of the problem, then educate them and outline consequences.</p>
<p>I attended a presentation a few weeks ago where the speaker, a HS principal, told the audience that they (the parents) could apply ED and then decline, because “they can’t MAKE you go there- its just a business”. I was floored. Aghast. That is patently unethical.</p>
<p>Agreed. If applicants follow this advice, there’s a reason for colleges to auto reject ED applicants from this school.</p>
<p>If ANY applicant wants to change from ED to RD, prior to any admissions decision having been made, this needs to be done in writing, so that there’s a record of the change. If you actually believe that admissions offices don’t read email, then put the request in a certified letter. But a telephone call? No way!</p>
<p>We have communicated with the admission offices of at least 3 schools by e-mail. One has been very effective and reply within a day every time. The other two took a couple days each time. They do read and response to e-mail as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>How can the student act alone if the ED requires the counselors signature?</p>
<p>Acting alone when the intent was formed and the action taken to back out of an ED agreement after an offer of admission was extended. This can be done without the guidance counselor playing a part or even knowing what’s going on.</p>
<p>Well, reading the OP, it appears that the guidance/college counselor at his/her school has no clue how this works.</p>
<p>At lower tier schools it may be less of an issue, but at the top schools, pulling this does reflect badly on the school (whose counselors should advise the applicants of the rules) and could affect the colleges willingness to take students in future years.</p>
<p>The guidance counselors can advise all they want, and most kids will listen, understand and comply, but there’s always that kid that thinks he/she knows how to beat the system and will act contrary to the best advice. In these cases, the consequences should fall on the applicant, and not the counselor or future applicants from the school.</p>
<p>How is declining an ED acceptance “beating the system”? Unless you mean that they hold the ED acceptance , fail to cancel the other applications,a nd see what happens later. That doesnt always work.</p>
<p>Beating the system, gaming the system, call it whatever you want. How about not following the rules because you think breaking the rules has the potential to produce a more desirable result?</p>
<p>I am not quite sure what all the debate is about? It is very clear on the ED applications and on the Common App what the rules are. If a student violates the rules, there can be group consequences affecting the future acceptances from that HS. Thats the way it is. Heres the common apps form (from a colleges website, but its the CA form) <a href=“http://admissions.richmond.edu/forms/pdf/early-decision-contract.pdf[/url]”>http://admissions.richmond.edu/forms/pdf/early-decision-contract.pdf</a> Yes, I know you will say you know. But the counselor owns some responsibility. They cant claim to be the piano player at the brothel claiming they don’t know what is going on upstairs.</p>
<p>** I am still mulling over whether I should have spoken up at that event where the Principal from a HS was telling parents it is OK to apply ED and then decline. I was a guest so sat on my hands. But it still causes steam to come out of my ears. I did write a comment on the feedback form at the end of the presentation.</p>
<p>My comment about future students at your high school being not well received at Flagler or any other college after one has broken ED commitment for other than unusual circumstances such as extreme financial hardship, etc is based on history of my children’s high schools and reported by head of guidance dept at the various mandatory college pre-planning sessions that are held beginning in Feb of junior year including mandatory student-family sessions, mandatory one on one college planning session with guidance counselor in spring semester or junior year and fall semester of senior year. Early decision applications require an additional meeting with guidance in which student, family member, guidance counselor all sign off on early decision commitment in order to proceed. This paperwork is subsequently reviewed by head of guidance as well as principal. This is large suburban high school outside of NYC with well-regarded application process and many Ivy acceptances as well as top-ranked school acceptances.</p>
<p>I am not quite sure what all the debate is about? It is very clear on the ED applications and on the Common App what the rules are. If a student violates the rules, there can be group consequences affecting the future acceptances from that HS. Thats the way it is. Heres the common apps form (from a colleges website, but its the CA form) <a href=“http://admissions.richmond.edu/forms...n-contract.pdf[/url]”>http://admissions.richmond.edu/forms...n-contract.pdf</a> Yes, I know you will say you know. But the counselor owns some responsibility. They cant claim to be the piano player at the brothel claiming they don’t know what is going on upstairs.</p>
<p>And kids never break the rules, even when they clearly know what the rules are?</p>
<p>Why should there be “group consequences” if one person is completely and solely responsible for the infraction?</p>
<p>We really don’t know what happened with OP and his/her guidance counselor regarding the Flagler ED application, so here’s a hypothetical:</p>
<p>A kid decides to apply ED to a school without having a really clear first choice, because he’s heard that an ED application will give him a better shot at getting accepted to this particular school. He applies to a number of other schools as well, either EA or RD. His plan, which he has formulated on his own and has not discussed with anyone else, is to keep his options open by not withdrawing other applications if he gets accepted ED. He does this even though he has been advised what the rules are, but he figures he won’t be caught, and even if he is who cares? What can happen? If he gets declined ED, nothing happens. But what if he gets accepted ED? If he doesn’t withdraw the other applications, he breaks the rules. If he turns down the ED acceptance, he breaks the rules (assuming financial considerations are not a factor). His parents are upset. His guidance counselor is livid. The ED college is not happy. So who should pay a penalty if this happens? Future applicants from his high school? To what end? And how does the counselor own any responsibility in this situation?</p>
<p>Sounds like if you don’t agree with the policies/rules you should take this up with the colleges, Middkid. Of course kids break the rules. But there are consequences that go beyond a personal one. As they say, one has 2 choices: take it or leave it. </p>
<p>I don’t remember where I read it, but I have read of the top schools sharing with each other the names of applicants who declined their ED acceptance, and the other schools that accepted them rescinded their offers.</p>
<p>My comment about future students at your high school being not well received at Flagler or any other college after one has broken ED commitment for other than unusual circumstances such as extreme financial hardship, etc is based on history…</p>
<p>“Not well received” and “zero chance of any future applicants being admitted ED” (paraphrasing) are two very different things. My main point is this: consequences, if any, that result from breaking an ED agreement should be based on the individual circumstances involved.</p>
Well maybe in the ideal world they should be, but in the real world of competitive college admissions, they are not, unless it is due to financial hardship (or some medical emergency or something that causes the applicant to not attend any college, etc). So, to stop this debate, the point is, of course there are individual circumstances. But for those who do it to try to game the system, if caught, consequences are harsh. As they should be.</p>
<p>Colleges do flag schools whose students reject them. My high school is a strong public school in New Jersey and while we have had many students go off to all of the Ivys, there has not been a student from my school go to Columbia in half a dozen years. These are students who were accepted into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, Brown, etc. There definitely is a flag on my school in Columbia.</p>
<p>Sounds like if you don’t agree with the policies/rules you should take this up with the colleges, Middkid. Of course kids break the rules. But there are consequences that go beyond a personal one. As they say, one has 2 choices: take it or leave it.</p>
<p>Where did I ever say that I don’t agree with policies and rules regarding ED applicants?</p>
<p>I don’t remember where I read it, but I have read of the top schools sharing with each other the names of applicants who declined their ED acceptance, and the other schools that accepted them rescinded their offers.</p>
<p>Yes, and if you go back and read my previous posts in this thread, you will see that I mention this practice at least twice. This is the proper consequence for a kid that, on his own and against the advice of others, breaks the ED rules.</p>
<p>You sound like you dont agree with the policies because you feel it should not affect the school if the counselor signs off on an ED, even out of ignorance, and the student is trying to game the system.
Please, tone it down to a dull roar.</p>
<p>So simple, just contact them and say you made a mistake. Not that you made an error in judgement, but a mistake. No need to worry about what if?, just make the call.</p>
<p>As far as guidance having any responsibility for this - what? DSs guidance department has zero input on schools unless you seek it out. They certainly do not have the ability to prevent you from applying anywhere you want to. Transcripts are sent by the staff. There is no reviewing/approval of applications. Can’t place this on them.</p>
<p>Well maybe in the ideal world they should be, but in the real world of competitive college admissions, they are not, unless it is due to financial hardship (or some medical emergency or something that causes the applicant to not attend any college, etc). So, to stop this debate, the point is, of course there are individual circumstances. But for those who do it to try to game the system, if caught, consequences are harsh. As they should be.</p>
<p>Well, if your point is that in my hypothetical in post #33 the applicant’s school and future applicants from that school will suffer because of one person’s actions, I disagree. Feel free to provide a real world example or a verifiable admissions policy in which a high school and/or future applicants from that high school have been or will be treated differently because of one person’s disregard for the rules, against the advice of guidance staff.</p>