<p>I'm just curious... how are parents finding out about these acceptances/rejections that come in the mail prior to their child seeing it? A thin envelope can mean anything. Or have some kids preapproved their parents opening their mail? We just have a rule in our family that no one opens anyone else's mail. I can see some parents holding off giving them the mail until after an audition, (how do you know if you're holding off an acceptance or rejection?) but do some kids really encourage their parents to open their mail? I can also understand if they're out of town on another audition or away from home for a few days and the mail comes, and the student tells the parents to open it, but I guess it just doesn't sit well with me for parents to know before the student. Although the parents have given away much time, money and energy to this audition process, it's the kids who have worked hard to get to this point, and I think they should be the first to see the news.</p>
<p>I totally agree that you must know your own child to make this call -- but knowing mine, I can only tell you that had I opened, or withheld, one of her letters, I would not be alive today to be reading this board! However, as I recall, the timing was not as acute as has been discussed here.</p>
<p>One other comment, prompted by LesMis777's comment:
[quote]
We shopped for a new blouse, she switched audition pieces and she is armed with determination with 5 more auditions to go.
[/quote]
There may be valid reasons for switching audition pieces if she received feedback that indicated it would be wise to do so, or if she came to a realization that it might be better to do so. However, I have often seen kids switch audition material based on a rejection, and not on a compelling reason why other material would be better. Don't be too quick to throw out material that was well-chosen, especially if it means trying to learn something new too quickly. If it means reverting to other material that she knows equally well, then it may be a more valid choice.
Given the myriad pieces that go into the decision, don't jump to the "quick fix" of different material, unless there is good reason to consider doing so.</p>
<p>Hey everyone.. So I'm a freshman this year at NYU for musical theater.... and for the record, I got rejected from the other 9 schools I applied to... NYU was the LAST letter I got... So hang in there guys! My recommendation is apply to backups and not just the "top-ten"..... and if you don't get in, then you are all the more lucky because you can take a year off and get your act together for next year. good luck!</p>
<p>p.s.- i rocked every audition... sometimes, its out of your control... don't take it personally.. these schools accept about 20 kids.. that's crazy!</p>
<p>msd317,</p>
<pre><code> Thanks for the encouragement! My D is really excited about her next audition and I'm praying that she gets into one of these programs, but if not, she has other options too. She's using this process as a "reality check" and says that if she does not get into one of the schools on her list, that her chances of making in the MT are pretty slim. None of us can imagine going through this again! We've spent thousands on travel, applications and training, so this is probably it if she doesn't get in.
Her teachers, family and friends all seem to think that she's got a great shot at it, so we'll just have to wait and see!
</code></pre>
<p>I think we can all agree that these kids are the best. Some will get acceptances, some rejections and some both but they are all brave in my book. This is stressful for them and the families and it’s a pretty high stakes game for kids so young. </p>
<p>I agree with what MusTHCC said;</p>
<p>
[quote]
I totally agree that you must know your own child to make this call
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You also said</p>
<p>
[quote]
There may be valid reasons for switching audition pieces….
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your advice is good yet valid or not I think the reason goes to the very heart of this discussion. The most logical reaction to rejection is self doubt. If you doubt your effectiveness you make changes. Look at the inverse. If there was no doubt why make changes? You can “say” that we got up the next day raring to go with a brand new attitude yada yada yada. Those are just words. Confidence is not bought by words. </p>
<p>Now doggone it Lisa there you go again! What am I going to do with you? You wrote;</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wally, I don't think we can equate not getting into an MT program with being told a parent has terminal cancer.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Show me where Wally said that? In fact Wally went out of his way to point out the “extreme” difference! </p>
<p>Let me walk you through the logic as I don’t seem to have conveyed it well enough. This hold the letter don’t hold the letter discussion is filled with subtleties and nuances. In mathematics when you are working to discern an answer to something frequently the differences are fine or inconspicuous or insinuated. One strategy at that point is to exaggerate things so that a distinction can be made which is not illusive. Taking numbers out to infinity for example. </p>
<p>In this case the dilima is tell or don’t tell. Absolutly a death does not equate rejection but the point is to raise the stakes. Okay now tell don’t tell does involve a death, now what do you do. You responded unequivocally “don’t tell”. That indicates that the answer for you to the more subtle dilemma is hold the letter until after the auditions.</p>
<p>Wow, my post yesterday got hammered here and much analysis. I'm new to this site. But, a valid reason for switching audition material might be that you sang a song for your vocal teacher and she said, "that's a great auditon piece, you do a great job with that...you should really sing that at your next audition". Not self-doubt. We open other family member's mail at our home with permission.</p>
<p>Hey!
I'm Les Mis's D!!
WALLY WORLD: In this career you have to be confident and talented enough to switch audition songs whenever you want to :P
PS: lighten up parents! Take a breath!</p>
<p>Les Mis, they are making a good point--in general. But I'm with you that sometimes there is a valid reason for switching at the last minute. Really a student should have four good monologues and at least that many songs ready for auditions. If someone has a less than stellar audition, they might realize that the song and monologue they put first are not necessarily the best to use for certain reasons.</p>
<p>Lesmis777</p>
<p>We don’t need to lighten up, nobody has gotten heated or personal. I think this is a very valid discussion of real world events and circumstances on the topic of the thread. Dealing with rejections or possible rejections and being motivated to perform your best seems to be immensely on topic.</p>
<p>First, it was very logical to conclude that you changed the audition piece because of the rejection. Your mom is the one who linked the two concepts into one sentence. Second neither MusTHCC nor I where really talking specifically about you rather in logical generalities</p>
<p>He said</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have often seen kids switch audition material based on a rejection
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I said</p>
<p>
[quote]
Your advice is good yet valid or not I think the reason goes to the very heart of this discussion. The most logical reaction .........
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your situation inspired part of the dialogue but its not about you. There is an important audience to these forums that do not post, only read and there will likely be many people over the coming years who read these threads that will have to deal with similar issues. I think reading about how other families have dealt with circumstances and various opinnions and strategies tossed about will be valuable to some.</p>
<p>Do others have thoughts about what happens if your child/you don't get into an MT program?</p>
<p>My daughter applied to 5 BFA programs and 1 college with a great reputation for MT in a non-audition BA program. There are many roads to success and it's important not to fixiate inflexibly on one approach. A BA program gives a student an opportunity to also explore other directions. If it is concluded that MT or acting is where the student wants to be professionally, then a MFA is a logical progression from the BA. In fact, most MFA programs prefer BA students and not those with BFA's according to what I've been told by department heads at various schools.</p>
<p>To throw another angle into the hold the envelope back or not, my S got an acceptance in a very thin envelope, as a matter of fact it was to his first choice school, one page for acceptance another for his talent award, so who can tell?</p>
<p>Yes, there's a silver lining to be sure even if your daughter isn't in the end offered a spot in a program she's auditioned for. Many actors take the route of a BA/MFA. In a LAC with a strong theatre dept, esp. one where there isn't a BFA cohort, a student in a BA program can get great training with the added bonus of a good liberal arts education. All is certainly not lost. Last year my son applied to 7 BFA schools, 2 BA w/audition, and 3 BA nonaudition. The experiences would have been different at each program, but a motivated student will be OK anywhere, even if it means taking a different path than expected. I believe that. There were points in the process where I actually thought the LAC route might be the better answer, and I know he would have been able to thrive and connect and be in shows and keep his dream alive in any case. It's only the end of the dream if you think it is.</p>
<p>I used to teach in a relatively new BA MT program. The first class of graduates to go through the entire program graduated a couple of years ago, and most are working professionally as performers. You can work professionally with a BA (or no college degree for that matter). Some students may decide to go on to graduate school. I know a young women who graduated from the BFA MT program at PSU, worked for a few years and is now in the MFA acting program at Yale. There are many different paths to success in this career. In the end the college selection is really about finding the right match. If a school does not accept you then they were not the right match. </p>
<p>Some students who do not get into a BFA MT program choose to go to a BA program for a year and audition for other or reaudition for the same BFA programs. I have worked with a number of students who did get into BFA programs and decided to attend the BA program.... another student really wanted to go to a BFA, but her parents would not let her, and she ended up in a BA determined that she would transfer in a year. She now says that it was the best thing to ever happen for her, and that she would never dream of transfering. Different paths for different people.</p>
<p>Not getting into a top BFA MT program is not an indicator (I think I just used a double negative... sorry) that you will not have a successful career as a MT performer. First, as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread most schools accept 20 - 30 kids out of the sometimes hundreds who audition. Second, everyone progresses at a different rate, based upon who they are as a person, prior life experiences, prior training and performing experiences, etc... I hope that if anyone has the dream of making a life as a performer that they will pursue it regardless of what the audition panels at 5 - 10 schools think. :) Find a different path to pursue your dream. There are plenty of stories of people who were rejected from conservatories (theatre, music, etc...) who have gone on o very successful careers. </p>
<p>Rejection hurts... particularly because rejection as an actor feels so personal... you put yourself out there and (for what ever reason) the people for whom you auditioned did not fully appreciate it. Unfortunately, if you (or your S or D.. to all the parents out there) choose to pursue this career path rejection is just part of the deal. Painful, but survivable.</p>
<p>I don't make light of the situation... just want to support, and offer options, and a "light at the end of the tunnel", so to speak.</p>
<p>Hang in there! :)</p>
<p>OK... I was trying to be subtle in my previous post when I asked about how parents were getting this information prior to their kids. I don't think Wally's posing the question in regards to a parent's illness addresses the issue at all; if you're the parent who has been given bad news about your own health, it's your choice who to tell or not tell at any given moment... it's your news to deal with however you think is appropriate. Yes, your bad news will impact those you love, but someone is not making the choice for you on how to tell others.</p>
<p>With MT kids and their auditions, we're talking about news that they own about themselves, not their parents. We all know how much we, as parents, invest in our childrens' college admission process, but I just think that, unless a student has told a parent ahead of time that this is OK(like Lisa said, perhaps it's something to talk about before this all begins so parent and child are on the same page), it is not the parents position to make this decision. When I've either read here, or spoken with other parents about this topic, my impression has been parents have gone overboard in protecting a child from something that will be inherent to their lives if they choose the MT route. We're talking about young adults here - granted some 18 year olds are more mature than others, but for those who are on the more immature side (whether they're 16 or 19), parents who try to 'protect' their child from these realities may indeed do more harm than good in the long run. It may feel right at the moment, but what message are you sending them in the long run? that they can't handle rejection and someone needs to protect them? Let's say a year from now, your student has some auditions lined up for whatever (i.e. summer stock, regional theatre, etc.); the chances are, if you're in this business, it will be a regular occurence to go from audition to audition having just received a rejection. If they don't get a vote of confidence from their parents now that they can deal with life's hardships, when will they learn it? When they're umpteen million miles away from home without the unconditional parental support that they will get through it? I'd prefer my own child to start learning these lessons now, before she flies the coop so that she has some character to build on when mom and dad aren't there to protect her from everything.</p>
<p>I'm sure my more blatant opinions will spark debate here, but my original question has not been answered by anyone... are their students out there who tell their parents it's OK to open their mail and withhold information from them? Again, if the parent has the student's permission, I have no problem, but the scenarios posed here suggest and imply that parents are opening mail without their child's knowledge. I just think it's a subtle form of intrusion on a young adult's life.</p>
<p>One more insight... since the issue is 'tell or don't tell', and a context is given of whether a sick parent should tell a child of a serious diagnosis prior to a big event... I do clinical work for a hospice agency, and with almost 100% certainty, when families choose not to tell others of their condition until later (in order to 'protect' them), those not told always feel slighted - as if the others were saying they weren't capable of handling life's hardships. If I'm the one holding the key to pandora's box, it's my right to choose how this information is disseminated, but I also have to accept the conflict that might come along with treating others as incapable. As parents, it is our responsibility to give our kids the tools to be successful in life, and although withholding a rejection letter prior to an audition seems small in the scheme of things, I'll bet it would be rare to find a parent who does this, who also doesn't try to protect their child from other difficulties in life, thus stunting their psychological development. We all know that to pursue this dream, our kids have to have thick skin - well, they don't develop thick skin without the callouses from previous exposure to pain.</p>
<p>It's overly simplistic to think that a bright line "rule" is appropriate for all kids and parents under all circumstances. It is fine to talk about imbuing resilience and confidence in our kids but there is no one approach to doing this that is right for all. In this day and age when "personal responsibilty" and "accountability" are popular catch phrases, we, as parents, and society tend to forget that kids must be treated as individuals and efforts to foster and nurture their development and growth must be tailored to the individual. We also tend to forget that part of the role of a parent is to make decisions about how to expose our kids incrementally to life lessons - and yes, even protect them - so as to maximize their opportunities to succesfully learn those lessons and develop resilience and confidence. This must be a fluid and dynamic process based on an ongoing dialogue with one's own kid. And it is presumptuous to sit in judgement of parents who choose to do things differently based on their knowledge of their kid and the relationship between them. But enough philosophising about parenting theory.</p>
<p>I stick to my original position. With my kid (who is extremely self-reliant and competent in dealing with life, who has already dealt with disappointment in auditions and learned to move on), if the "thin letter" arrives a few days before an audition, so that she has time to process and work through her feelings, then I don't run interference. If it arrives the day before or day of an audition, for now, I will pull it from the mail, unopened, and stick it back in the incoming mail, unopened, after the audition. In my judgement, there is no salient benefit to having her receive a rejection as she is departing for another audition and the potential downside far outweighs any potential "character building". And part of my job as her parent is to be protective when, where and to the extent I think it appropriate under the circumstances. The one thing I do agree with is that you don't open the mail of a 17 or 18 yr old without prior permission.</p>
<p>All:</p>
<p>This has turned into a interesting discussion on so many topics...from students being rejected....to parenting styles....to dealing with illness....to opening mail......wow!</p>
<p>I think we all recognize that we have each raised individuals who take things differently, who react differently, who have had different life experiences, AND who just happen to want to pursue a career in MT. I dont know about you, but all the people I know who do what I do, are not the same in their feelings and emotions and reactions to things. </p>
<p>What do I think? Talk to your child about this ' rejection thing' - how would they like it handled? How do they feel about being in a profession where rejection happens a lot more than in many others? Do they need a backup plan/school in place? These discussiions, in addition to all the others we have to have about life :) and college, are critically important. They are young adults and while we need to start to temper the "lectures" we can still provide life experience advice.</p>
<p>MikksMom</p>
<p>Yes, Teri, I have my D's permission. She told me Friday that she wanted to focus her attention on the audition at hand and to hold ANY mail until we get back on Sunday.</p>
<p>I love how articulate you all are about your opinions. It's so enjoyable. That's one of the things I miss so much with my daughter away at school. She's so articulate and fun to talk with in person. But on our cell phones which lack clarity, all those many states away, she doesn't sound too articulate, especially when there are always friends talking in the background! Once she even slipped on the ice while she was talking to me on the cell phone and fell smack on her backside. I liked that post a while back (sorry--I can't remember who posted it) that described how college students don't like how their parents get into their lives too much (sometimes that is not a valid complaint for various reasons haha!). Those kids must have better cell phones than my daughter (or even land lines)! But it's easy to see that getting too much into the life of your college student could cause a breakdown in communications between parent and child. That poster implied that the only holding of mail that would "work" would be holding for a day or two to coast over an audition--and then slipping it back in the mail, a scenario that MichaelNKat mentions above. This could be discussed with the student ahead of time. During the audition period, my daughter wanted me to open her mail if she wasn't there and to call her with the results immediately. But she ASKED me to do so. Teriwtt, that bit about students owning the news about their own MT auditions is wonderful. Maybe I'm some crazy old lady, but I just hate to see how we are eroding the freedoms of all people, and young people in particular, in our goals to make them safe. Believe me, I am one of the most overprotective parents around, but I try to recognize when I am overstepping and keep trying to guard against it as I realize our kids need to grow on their own. When I read about schools starting to test kids on Monday mornings to see if they had been drinking last Friday night, I was in shock. But I don't know why I was in shock as we are moving more and more into this Orwellian territory all the time. I realize that a lot of you won't agree with me, but when we are living in the novel 1984, I need to know that I did speak up when I still could. Please don't get mad at me for the wrong reason. If you're mad because you don't agree with me, well, I guess that's your right. But I am NOT criticizing how other people choose to parent. I am merely stating my concern over a trend I see in our society that I find frightening. In fact, I have unwittingly participated in this movement myself by overprotecting my kids when they need to fall down themselves. Maybe I have done it even more than people who are advocating hanging onto letters without permission. I am defnitely not putting myself up as a model of parenting LOL! I think that learning to walk the line between overprotecting and neglecting has been the most difficult part of parenting for me. This issue isn't just about parenting, however, as it is pervasive in all aspects of society.</p>
<p>On a different subject, but part of this whole discussion, is KatMT's great post. She said, "Different paths for different people." That is a positive observation, especially coming from a professional in the field. </p>
<p>Last year, when my daughter was auditioning, I felt that by getting into a good program, she was "set." My feeling was, "Now I don't have to worry any more." I knew that that wasn't true, and that her future would be full of auditions and rejections and hopefully some good news too (!); however, I could not really understand the permanence of the unknown and uncontrollable until this year. That's what these kids do: audition, get rejected, and audition again. They do it at school all year around, outside of school for summer stock, and they will keep doing it as long as they are in this business. Even famous actors do not always get the roles they really want. I remember reading that Lea Salonga really would like to play Elphaba. IMO, she won't ever get that part as she's not right in "type" or vocally either. I am wondering at what point the students themselves really understand the "eternity" of the audition/rejection cycle they have signed up for.</p>