<p>All being said and done ... I think Biola University and Wheaton are the top two Protestant Christian Universities in this country. </p>
<p>Yay. </p>
<p>= )</p>
<p>How silly. In essence, "Christian" just means a follower of the Christos, the annointed one, right? I think it's fair to say that the early followers of Yeshua of Nazareth could be called "Jesists," and were, at least in Jerusalem, a splinter sect of Judaism. I believe it was Paul who coined called Jesus "Christos," wasn't it?</p>
<p>The implication of suggesting that Catholics aren't Christian demonstrates how scary some of the evangelicals really are. If "we" are Christian, and the others are "only Catholics, but not Christian," then the implication is that only a certain kind of Protestant is a true Christian. Had these been ranked as the best "Protestant" schools, I would have found it much more acceptable.</p>
<p>I think we just have another example here of religious bigotry, personally.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but as a Theologian I am quite content to say that it is generally accepted that "Christian" refers to protest roots and "Catholic" refers to Catholocism, generally either Eastern Orthodox or Roman.
[/quote]
You clearly aren't much of a theologian (and particularly not much of a religious historian) if you think "that Christian refers to protest roots." There's another term for that, Protestantism (note the root word, "protest"). I don't see how one can claim that a religious group that believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ and his role as the Messiah is not a Christian group. Your theology needs a lot of work.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And, believe it or not, most Catholics/Christians (see the natural distinction there?) are fine with that.
[/quote]
Maybe most "Christians" are (assuming by Christian you mean Protestant) but I've yet to meet a Catholic who would say that he or she is not Christian.</p>
<p>"Throwing the name "Jesus" around makes something "Christian" but, it is correct to say that in AMERICAN culture the word Christian typically refers to evangelical protestants. "</p>
<p>Here I am, born and raised in America, and all this time I thought Christian refers to religions that believe in Jesus Christ. So I'm thinking, well, apparently I've been misconstruing the word. So, just for grins, I wander down and ask the country club ladies, who go into all sorts of weird theological/political/esoteric discussions what they consider Christian. And lo and behold, they all are thinking Christians are those believing in Christ too. So, I'm now I'm wondering, where is this monolithic "AMERICAN" culture you attribute this belief to? Is there a handbook somewhere? </p>
<p>(My Roman Catholic born again brother would be heartbroken to hear he is no longer considered a Christian.)</p>
<p>at least where i'm from--if you're catholic and are asked what your religion is, you say rc, not christian. thats the difference. of course catholics are christian, but in my life experience, catholics don't want to be lumped under the general term of christian--and like to be referred to as catholic.</p>
<p>i know if i'm asked what i am, i say i'm catholic--never have i said i was simply christian.</p>
<p>I think phear over emphasizes the theological differences between Roman Catholics and other Christian denominations. Yes here are differences but there are more similarities than differences.</p>
<p>The only thing that truly puzzles me is the statement that theology is not integrated into the curriculum of Roman Catholic schools, i.e. Notre Dame, Holy Cross, Villanova, etc.</p>
<p>Further, as an example of Protestant and Catholic Christians being close, Episcopal priests can become Roman Catholic priests if they would like. To me that kind of emphasizes that theologically there is not such a large divide between the churches.</p>
<p>Finally, Relevant magazine can choose to make whatever list they would like. I just think that they are using the term Christian in a very limited sense, a sense that most people find too limiting and excludes many of those that would consider themselves Christians.</p>
<ol>
<li>Most people think they know what they are talking about, and do not. </li>
<li>Most Catholics identify themselves as Catholic and most protestants identify themselves as Christian. I didn’t make it that way. Don’t blame me. </li>
<li>Roman Catholocism and Protestantism are mutually exclusive theological beliefs. Understanding the differences between two beliefs is not bigotry - it’s simple logical consistency.</li>
</ol>
<br>
<br>
<p>True enough, but the part that you are conveniently leaving out is that Catholics also identify themselves as Christians. In fact they consider Catholicism to be the true, and certainly the original, embodiment of Christianity. Compared to Catholics, Protestants are merely a schismatic group that came along some 15 centuries after the fact.</p>
<p>I am no Theologen (sp) but I’m learning. I went to Catholic School all my life and thought nothing of enrolling my kids in a Chrisitan one, thinking I was a Christian. My daughter, now 17, tells me otherwise. This thread has shed some light on her views. Thanks.</p>
<p>What a silly argument. Phear, where I come from, if you ask someone what religion s/he is, you’ll get an answer like “Baptist,” “Methodist,” Presbyterian," etc. I highly doubt it would occur to anyone to use the word “Christian” since it isn’t specific enough to have much meaning there.</p>
<p>The fact is, Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Gnosticism, and a whole bunch of othe splinters are subsets of the meta-set “Christian” in the same way that Sunni and Shia are subsets of Islam. This attempt at “we’re Christian but you’re not” is pathetic. Even more pathetic is your attempt to tell us what a great theologian you are so that you don’t have to support your arguments.</p>
<p>Sure, there are theological differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, but that hardly proves your point that both cannot be Christian.</p>
<p>Stop hiding behind a non-specific claim to expertise and give us a well-reasoned arguments, citations, and the like.</p>
<p>tarhunt et al,</p>
<p>chill out. phear me is simply saying that catholics, when asked what religion they are, aren’t going to say “christian,” they’ll say catholic. I’m catholic and do it. All of my catholic friends do it. In fact, I’ve never met a catholic who, when asked his religion, replies “i’m christian.” Of course catholics are “christians,” but christian is a much more vague term, and being catholic is different than being simply “christian.” no where does he say catholics arn’t christians, so whats all the fuss? besides, when catholics are supposed to believe that all churches not in full alignment with the pope (i.e. all the other non catholic, christian churches) are going to hell, why would they want to be identified with those groups?</p>
<p>"1. Most people think they know what they are talking about, and do not. "</p>
<p>Boy it that true. I think that statement alone explains Phears posts.</p>
<p>"2. Most Catholics identify themselves as Catholic and most protestants identify themselves as Christian. I didn’t make it that way. Don’t blame me. "</p>
<p>Not only didn’t you make it that way, no one made it that way because it just isn’t true. The only group I personally know members of that identifies themselves as Christian is my brother’s born again group of Roman Catholics. </p>
<p>“3. Roman Catholocism and Protestantism are mutually exclusive theological beliefs. Understanding the differences between two beliefs is not bigotry - it’s simple logical consistency.”</p>
<p>Their core belief is that Christ is the son of God. The Christian part of their theological beliefs is the one part they have in common. So it doesn’t surprise me that those in each religion that feel they need to go back to the core of their beliefs do like to self identify as Christian. </p>
<p>Perhaps you would do better if you were to say in your part of the world (wherever that may be) Protestants self identify as Christians and all Catholics self identify as Catholics. But certainly you can tell from all the people arguing otherwise right here that it’s just not universally true.</p>
<p>jags:</p>
<p>Why don’t YOU chill out???</p>
<p>Of COURSE Catholics don’t usually say they’re “Christian,” because “Christian” is a non-specific term. Where I come from, when people ask you what religion you are, they don’t say “Christian.” That would be like asking them where they’re from and having them tell you “Earth.” Instead, they tell you their Protestant denomination, which is really the only relevant information available.</p>
<p>Phear is simply trying to classify Protestants as Christians and all others as non-Christians. I find that offensive. If you don’t, fine. Help yourself.</p>
<p>Phear,</p>
<p>Sorry but I disagree with your analysis. Let me respond to your 3 points</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While often true to sway people to your perspective and point of view you should provide more citations and clarify this statement.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I do not believe that this is true. Most people when asked their religion would say Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc. All are Christian regardless of how Relevant Magazine would classify them.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Logical consistency in what way? There are differences between Baptists and Lutherans yet in your definition they are Christian yet they are also mutually exclusive. Further, as I noted above, Episcopal Priests can become Catholic priests. Also note the schism underway within the Episcopal Church here in the US. The two sides are drawing a pretty clear line between themselves.</p>
<p>Whether you want to call each different group of christian sects or a schism of some kind from the “catholic” (in this regard universal) church there is still a universal belief in Christ.</p>
<p>To me I find is easier to cite John 14:2: " In my Father’s house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you."</p>
<p>Finally, I still don’t understand your statement earlier in the this thread that Notre Dame and Georgetown do not have theology integrated into their curriculum. Perhaps I should just chalk it up to your point 1.</p>
<p>“I agree that many of us have come to associate “Christian” with Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Sunday, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Ted Haggard, etc. The very reason that Catholics will say “I’m Catholic” instead of “I’m Christian” probably has a lot to do with not wanting to be associated with people like that. Heck, I have friends who will say they’re “Methodist” instead of “Christian” in order to avoid the stigma.”</p>
<p>Hmmm… I wonder how many Roman Catholics are reluctant to say they’re RC, and would rather say Christian because they don’t want to be associated with the priest abuse scandal?</p>
<p>teriwtt,</p>
<p>i’d venture to say very few, because there are abuse cases within EVERY church–catholic, morman, lutheran, baptist, jewish, muslim, etc. Catholics have just gotten more attention, and its not surprising considering there are more catholics than every other christian sect combined–theres obviously going to be more occurances of it.</p>
<p>I completely agree, but I’d also venture to say that most non-Catholic religions and their ministers err on the side of infidelity as opposed to pedophelia. There’s something about the vulnerability of children that distinguishes it from other denominations.</p>
<p>My question was somewhat rhetorical - I am in the ministry, and have heard some priests, when they are out in public, now remove their collar because it draws attention to who they are, and they don’t want people to be fearful of them. But of course, when they’re at their place of work (church, hospital, nursing home, university, etc.) they wear it all the time.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m skewed because I live in a town where the largest American RC seminary is located, and a large number of those accused and found guilty now are housed. It is across the street from a co-ed RC high school. The townspeople are up in arms because the seminary won’t release the names of those living there as is required by the sex offenders notification laws. The high school used to use the seminary grounds for various activities (charity walks, etc.) and now they don’t because of the people who live back there.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine a thread that would be more likely to reinforce an atheist’s worldview than this one.</p>
<p>Yup. (10 char)</p>
<p>Um, let me get this straight-- Relevant magazine (an evangelical “christian” publication) has classified only evangelical schools as “christian” and posters are seriously debating it? </p>
<p>And, Phearme-- I imagine you got your “theology” degree at an evangelical school and they taught you that your group are the true christians??? The idea that evangelicals are the 'christians" and other are “catholics” or “greek orthodox” or whatever has absolutely no currency outside of the narrow little slice of evangelicals. None. Zip. Not a shred. Spouting it only shows an very narrow education given in the sort of schools where only professors witht he “approved” beliefs are allowed to teach.
Get your head out of your own little sect and attend another christian sects seminary, like Princeton’s seminary school, for example.</p>