<p>^ I would reject Liberty, so I guess I am immature.</p>
<p>"though its not religous, but a secular institution."so we’re agreed it has no religious affiliation…</p>
<p>and notre dame may not force its base religion on you but you are surrounded by it everywhere you go. if the op is ok with priests all over and crosses hanging on every wall then he should consider nd. i doubt that’s what he wants though</p>
<p>I’m a Catholic myself, and I live about 5 minutes away from a very intensely-Catholic Catholic College, plus I know tons of people who go to various Catholic Colleges, so I feel like I am pretty qualified to give an insiders opinion. Here we go…</p>
<p>I can count on my fingers the number of Catholic Colleges I know of that are so distinctly “Catholic” that a non-Catholic would feel very excluded, especially socially. Most of these are Catholic LAC’s. Once you get to the bigger universities, such as Georgetown and CUA, generally the Catholicism is more of a heritage thing, and you won’t feel excluded at all. Plus, any college run by Jesuits is almost sure to be very liberal and open-minded, regardless of whether it is a LAC or a big university. My basic advice would be to check their website and publications - you’ll be able to see right away what the culture is like at that particular institution. But to answer your question about Georgetown, like everybody’s been saying, it’s Catholic but it’s not very “Catholic.”</p>
<p>Sometimes it depends on the major as well. For example, at CUA, if you’re majoring in musical theater or anything artsy, you’re not going to be exposed to much religion in class. But their theology/philosophy department, especially for grad school but even for undergrad, has the reputation of being very Catholic-minded.</p>
<p>//If you don’t want or appreciate a religious school, why go?//</p>
<p>This is not a bad question, but understand that in southern New England, for instance, if you rule out religious-affiliated schools (mostly Catholic), you’ve ruled out a substantial chunk of the available four-year private schools offering a broad-based, traditional college curriculum, especially if your stats are not going to get you into a top-tier university or LAC. </p>
<p>That still leaves you a good many choices, of course, but I’m sure students often find themselves in a situation where a religious-affiliated school is their best fit in every respect <em>except</em> the religious affiliation, and then they need to figure out how much of an issue that’s going to be.</p>
<p>//If you reject schools because they have a theology department that is very immature.//</p>
<p>Keilexandra said she would not consider schools that had a theology <em>requirement</em>–not a theology department. Huge difference. My son has a similar issue, even though he is interested in comparative religion, and this is going to keep at least some of the regional Catholic colleges off our list.</p>
<p>^ What nightchef said. I’m actually very interested in comparative religion, particularly the Eastern traditions; but a theology GE requirement is usually aimed at learning about Western religion, aka Christianity with a dabbling of Judaism. That’s wonderful for some people, but not for me.</p>
<p>Also, for those like someone I know (an atheist who majored in religion), it’s important to check out the actual religion/philosophy department and see if the courses are present to support truly comparative study (i.e. not just comparing Old/New Testament or Christianity/Judaism or Catholic/Protestant).</p>
<p>Look, if you dont want to attend a Catholic college, fine. Nobody says you have to even consider it. But we DO say, regardless, you have no right to criticize Catholic colleges whether they have crucifixes on the wall or not. The level of anti catholicism in this country in 2009 is astonishing. Its pathetic bigotry. I am not posting negative commentary on what I think about your religion or your agnosticism or whatever. </p>
<p>People who are afraid of taking a catholic theology class (which is really more of a philosophy class) really dont have enough security in their own beliefs and perhaps are afraid of big bad wolf: The Roman Catholic Church. Puhleeze.</p>
<p>Get over yourself.</p>
<p>I dont care if you attend an openly anti religious schools (and there are some REALLY big ones out there), if you attend a Lutheran, Episcopal, Catholic, Jewish, or go to college in India. </p>
<p>We Roman Catholics dont have to apologize to anyone. In fact, I get really angry at anyone in Catholic Colleges who give tours and DOWNPLAY the Catholic heritage or culture on campus. We are who we are. If you come, welcome! If you want to explore Catholic culture and religion. GREAT! If not, who cares? </p>
<p>There are 2,000 colleges in the United States. Pick three for yourself. And have a nice time.</p>
<p>^ Uh, I really could care less about the Roman Catholic Church. Or Catholics in general. All Christians are the same to me, with Quakers a notable exception. Why should I care whether you want to put up a crucifix or a cross? It all represents Jesus Christ, a wonderful but utterly mortal historical figure IMO.</p>
<p>Re: theology requirements, look at St. Olaf’s general education requirements. Note that it is a Lutheran college. From what I hear–regarding Catholic theology classes in Jesuit HS, at least–they are only “philosophy” classes to people who believe in God. Those of us who don’t, find them rather distinctly religious. I’m perfectly secure in my beliefs, having been attacked on them repeatedly. As such, I’d rather not have that same argument with a professor who controls my grade.</p>
<p>endlessrecession–please take a look at the things that Keilexandra and I wrote. Then take a look at what you wrote. Hopefully, after you’ve taken a deep breath, you’ll realize that your response was maybe just a wee small bit out of proportion? </p>
<p>The Roman Catholic Church is not a ‘big bad wolf’ to me. I was raised by atheists and find all religions equally interesting, baffling, and exasperating. All I said was that my son doesn’t like the idea of a theology requirement and will probably be inclined to pass on colleges that have one (which happens to = Catholic colleges, at least among the schools he’d be at all likely to apply to). If he didn’t want to do a foreign language requirement and was going to pass on schools that had one, would that make him a xenophobe? If he was looking for a school that had no requirements at all, would that mean he hated everything?</p>
<p>I mean, sheesh.</p>
<p>You are entitled to your views, to be sure. But this was a thread by someone who was for some reason seeking a religious school and yet wondering if it will be overly religious. Sort of absurd. Then comes the people who jump on and share their angst about anything religious or catholic. That is exasperating to me. </p>
<p>If you dont like ice cream, why are you in an ice cream store? I mean really.</p>
<p>Then people make remarks about crucifixes on the walls at a catholic college as if that is somehow offensive. Puhleeeze. </p>
<p>we can take “minority” (as in minority viewpoints, not racial) rights to an extreme…a tyranny of the minority. </p>
<p>If you are athiest, that is your deal. If she thinks Jesus is merely an historical figure, that is her choice, but she shouldnt expect anyone to accept that who is a believer. All we can offer her is a realm of civilized discussion and mutual respect, but that does not mean we have to put up with condescending remarks or insensitive and offensive remarks about our beliefs and culture, particularly at a catholic college. </p>
<p>If you want a school that is very unreligious, then try Tufts. </p>
<p>It strikes me as somewhat strange that someone who isnt attending a catholic school, who is an atheist, feeling at liberty to criticize theology class requirements at a catholic school, as if you have any say in the matter whatsoever. Its that ice cream thing again.</p>
<p>On the contrary, if you truly were about academic liberty and really open to exploring other ideas, you would embrace a theology requirement, take the class, and see what you can learn there, whether its a comparative religion class, a class on the History of Judaism, a class on the History of Protestantism in America, or a class on the History of Catholics in Colonial America. (all classes offered at a catholic college I know). </p>
<p>The University of North Carolina, a secular state school paid for 100 percent by the taxpayers of North Carolina, had required reading for its incoming freshmen a few years ago on the Koran. What about separation of Church and State in that regard? </p>
<p>Catholic Colleges should be applauded for requiring one or two theology courses for its freshmen. If you dont want to take a theology course, then dont apply to catholic colleges and go to a state school or secular private school like Tufts.</p>
<p>//It strikes me as somewhat strange that someone who isnt attending a catholic school, who is an atheist, feeling at liberty to criticize theology class requirements at a catholic school, as if you have any say in the matter whatsoever. Its that ice cream thing again.//</p>
<p>But we don’t feel at liberty to criticize the requirements, and we haven’t done so. They’re fine, for those who want that experience. And we recognize that we have no say in the matter whatsoever. That’s exactly the point, in fact. We’re responding to the requirements as consumers, and deciding that they don’t suit us, so we’ll look elsewhere. What’s the big deal? Does everybody have to like the same things, or believe the same things?</p>
<p>//If you dont like ice cream, why are you in an ice cream store? I mean really.//</p>
<p>Because it’s much more than an ice cream store, and claims, in the marketplace, to be much more than an ice cream store. It’s more like a restaurant that has a big, varied menu, including some things that are just exactly what you wanted to eat that day–but the house rule is that you must have a bowl of ice cream with every meal, and you must eat your ice cream before the rest of the meal is served. Well, I don’t want ice cream. I might even be mildly allergic to ice cream…:-)…so I decide to look for another restaurant where I won’t have to eat ice cream in order to enjoy my meal. I don’t have anything against the first restaurant, and I hope that those who eat there have a lovely time. It just isn’t the restaurant for me.</p>
<p>Instead of simply respecting my choice and enjoying your own ice cream, you insist that my attitude reflects a pathological bigotry against ice cream and those who eat it. This is absurd.</p>
<p>endlessrecession - I have said absolutely nothing on this thread that I would not say in person in passing at college. Religion is not sacred–it may be sacred to YOU, but it is not a sacred, taboo topic. It is just as open to civilized discussion–such as the one nightchef and I have been trying to engage–as any other public topic. I absolutely expect believers to “accept” my belief that Jesus is merely a historical figure; by “accept,” I mean politely disagreeing and then talking about it or leaving me alone. If a Catholic college–particularly a Jesuit one, which are always lauded for being open-minded–is truly tolerant, it should tolerate religious dissenters. We are a minority because we MUST tolerate the majority opinion every single moment of our lives.</p>
<p>I referenced Catholic theology class because you claimed that it was mostly “philosophy.” My secondhand experience is that they are not, mainly because such “philosophy” takes the belief in God as a fundamental assumption. This is fine–it is a Catholic college, after all–but you cannot then turn around and claim that the Catholic identity is irrelevant.</p>
<p>Academic liberty–please look up the definition of liberty. I believe it is largely synonymous with freedom. Freedom, in my mind, does not correlate with being forced to “embrace” specific requirements of any kind. Cf. Amherst, Brown, Vassar, and Hamilton’s justifications for an open curriculum.</p>
<p>I’m sure UNC’s study of the Koran was as literature, just as many secular schools proscribe study of the Bible as literature (disguised as “Great Books”).</p>
<p>“If you [don’t] want to take a theology course, then [don’t] apply to [Catholic] colleges”–Amen. (The irony is intentional.) The OP expressed misgivings about Georgetown, a Catholic college with a theology course requirement. Subsequent posts pointed out that Georgetown in particular offers quite a broad variety of courses to fulfill the theology requirement; at a small Catholic LAC like Holy Cross, I venture to say that this might not be the case. It is important for the OP to understand what s/he is getting into by enrolling at a religiously-affiliated college that actually cares about its affiliation (e.g. Macalester is affiliated but ranked for “Least Religious” students).</p>
<p>ETA: I second nightchef’s lovely extended analogy.</p>
<p>ice cream sounds good now</p>
<p>I am being completely honest, I have read this whole thread. Why would you want to go to a Catholic College if they require a theology course? It seems that these schools are not a good fit for you at all. I would just cross them off your list and move on. Also, why would you want to go to a Catholic College is you can care less about Catholics? It doesn’t make much sense and I’m sure you would see nuns and priests on campus, correct me if I’m wrong. I think you would need to show respect to your professors and you said you can care less about Catholics. Also, did you know there are some Jewish professors working at Catholic College’s? I have actually talked to one before and others said they felt perfectly find at a Catholic College and they are not Catholic. You should check out Pepperdine, they make the professors sign something before they can work there. They have to have some religious part in Christ to work at the school. </p>
<p>My input and sorry if I’m wrong. I would go to any college with any religion if they didn’t push it on me, as long as I like the school I am fine. It seems to me that other religions (Baptist, Church of Christ) push religion more than Catholic College’s and examples are Liberty and Pepperdine. </p>
<p>This is coming from a young Roman Catholic who tends to go more liberal politically. My father is Jewish and I like to learn about all my ancestors. Religion shouldn’t be that big of a deal, unless you make it one. I tend to have Catholic College’s on my list.</p>
<p>^ I think you have me mixed up with the OP. The “care less about Catholics” comment was definitely me. I am definitely not considering Catholic schools and was advising the OP to carefully rethink it. The only religiously-affiliated schools I would be entirely comfortable at, as an outspoken atheist, are practically-secular schools like Macalester (have also heard that Duke/Emory fall into this category) and Quaker schools like Earlham or Guilford. I’d be happy to explain the Quaker rationale, if anyone cares.</p>
<p>Sorry, I actually realized that after I posted. It sounded a lot like you were the OP even though I did read the thread from the beginning. The OP kind of stop answering after a while. I think I got very confused, lol. If you don’t consider Quaker’s Christian, do you consider Mormons? I do not know much about either religious group, but I consider a Christian someone who follows Christ. That’s my definition and how I’ve thought of it since I was young.</p>
<p>^ I consider both Quakers and Mormons to be Christian, but I don’t object to attending a Quaker-affiliated school because the Quaker philosophy does not involve evangelism.</p>
<p>I personally do not know much about Quakers at all. So, I would have to do a lot of research on the school before I would go there. Though, it may feel weird going to a school which isn’t my religion.</p>
<p>Sadly this entire thread was hijacked by people who just wanted to vent about catholic college theology requirements and vent their opinions, camouflaged in “mutual respect”, about religion in general and catholicism in particular.</p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>And early: yes there are a LOT of non catholic professors at Catholic Colleges. At my d’s school she has had 3 separate Jewish professors, one Lutheran minister, and one who only identified himself as “non catholic”. All of whom were fabulous. The Lutheran minister taught a required theology course. </p>
<p>I love it when people throw rocks and then try to say they weren’t there to start a fight.</p>
<p>lol um okay…
i check back on this thread and its a lot more interesting now.</p>
<p>(early_college) i stopped posting because someone answered my question quite a bit ago. (georgetown university and religion). i think i will still apply. i looked up the theology requirements and they are quite general, not just centered around christianity. i LOVE studying religion, however, i am just not religious! at any other school i would probably end up taking a course in islam or religious history anyways…</p>
<p>not gonna stop me from applying to that one school.</p>
<p>(oh and i was raised in a catholic household so – everyone on this thread should be nice!)</p>