Representational Art and Science

College Search & Selection
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Hi Wise Ones,
Our daughter is only a sophomore, so we are just starting the process of considering colleges. She is a straight A student who is in AP and honors classes, and so far is doing well. Our best guess is that she will major in science and minor in art.

We are a bit overwhelmed as to how to find a school that feeds both of these passions. I have found several threads on here that have made excellent suggestions, but they are OLD, and one of her mentors said that programs and professors change all the time, and it shapes the program. Right now, what we are doing is viewing the online art at each college that was suggested, and making judgements from there on how representational the program is, but it seems like there should be a better way. Does anyone have any suggestions for schools that she should look at, or ways to evaluate programs? The other concern is finding a school where she can easily do both. My understanding is that some programs (e.g. UCLA) make it near impossible to do more advanced classes if you aren’t an art major, and some programs just don’t “talk” to each other. HEEELLLP! Right now, our best choice is Brown (welcome to crapshoot land), which looks perfect from a size/focus position, but we need a broader focus. Best backups are Boston College, Williams…who knows?? She is most interested in East Coast, West Coast schools that are more than 2500 students and are not in a rural environment. She also wants smaller class sizes.

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Representational art seems to be foundational to what succeeded it. I’m surprised you are having some challenges in finding colleges that offer instruction in it as part of their art core. Williams is well known for art and is a great school to consider. If your daughter is not drawn to their rural environment, then your review of their offerings will at least serve as a guide in evaluating the programs at other colleges. Brown’s open curriculum does make the school particularly suitable for a student with diverse interests. For sheer balance between fine arts/humanities, sciences and social sciences, consider Hamilton, which also has an open curriculum. Though the school is rural/village in immediate feel, nearby suburban access is available. Vassar will have completed an impressive new science building in time for your daughter and is a convenient train ride from New York City. The University of Rochester is a match for her preferences in terms of size and essentially open curriculum, though I’m not familiar with their art curriculum. Wesleyan and Connecticut College are schools to consider for their overall art programs.

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Wow - thank you so much for that complete answer, merc81! I will definitely investigate each one carefully! In terms of your comment about it being foundational, what I am finding is that there is currently a “swing” away from representational and toward more experimental/free form/non-representational. I have looked at websites for schools that have excellent studio art programs, and found NOTHING that is representational on display in their student gallery, which I see as a danger sign. For whatever reason, many artists make patronizing comments - it’s quite surprising to me. Almost like “oh - how basic - I used to do that but now I’ve grown…” University of Rochester actually had the most representational, which was interesting because their program is tiny in comparison to the rest of the school. Hmmmm…

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@shoot4moon, I think it’s difficult to characterize the type of art that an undergraduate art department fosters.All art departments and art schools are undergoing a sea change in how they approach “new” and digital media, but my observation was that people, things, scenes were still a significant factor in subject matter.

f you take the broad sense of “representational” to mean recognizable images, then I think you’ll find a good deal of work in this category at any school with a good art department.

Realism which is a subset of representationalism may be less common, but I would think that a student could follow her own path as long as she fulfills the requirements of the course, which are generally a comfort level with the media, and underlying creative concept. At academically rigorous schools, art classes involve a lot of talking and writing about the process.

At least that was my son’s experience (at Williams) where human figures, portraits, landscapes, city scenes etc. were common subjects across all traditional media – drawing, painting, print making, photography, sculpture.

If she’s open to small liberal arts colleges in addition to Williams, she should look at Wesleyan, Kenyon, Hamilton, Conn College, Skidmore, Pitzer, Oberlin and Vassar. All have excellent-to- very good sciences as well strong art departments. But most (all?) are under 2500 students and some are decidedly rural.

At Williams, and I believe at most of the others, double majoring and/or taking courses outside of your major is not only allowed but encouraged, though scheduling art studios and science labs can be logistically difficult.

Another approach would be to take what appeals to her about Brown and look for other schools in the same general ambiance. I would avoid BFA programs as they tend to discourage double majors, though, as you note, some BA Art programs can be restrictive for non-majors as well.

I don’t have specific recommendations (aside from Yale which is even more selective than Brown!) but I think she might research other mid-sized mostly urban privates like Emory, Vanderbilt, Duke, USC, JHU.

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By “representational art and science”, are you perhaps referring to scientific illustration?
I believe St. Mary’s College of Md has had a program (or at least some courses) in that field. SMCoM is Maryland’s public honors college. It is a public LAC located in a beautiful, rural, waterfront setting. If Williams is a realistic reach, then SMCoM might make a good low match or safety.

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tk21769, that’s a new name to me, and definitely worth exploring!!! Thank you so much! Yes, we have discussed scientific illustration - for others reading this thread there is also a program at Cal State Long Beach (graduate level) and John Hopkins. It seems like a really interesting choice - in fact the CSULB professor has invited DD to observe a class. Yeah for mentoring profs for high schoolers!!

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It never ceases to amaze me the level of knowledge and willingness to assist others that I discover on this board. I I am so grateful for the generosity that I find here! Momrath, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed post for me - I am going to have to talk to her about the schools that are under 2500, as it seems to me that a good portion of the schools that pop up for this are small with the type of open curriculum that is present at Brown. Although I would predict that she would be an excellent student, I’ve been through this rodeo once before and know that it is critical that you not pin your hopes on one school (especially one like Brown). As a city girl, I honestly don’t think she even knows what rural is!!! We will definitely have to plan to visit a beauitful rural college next summer so her opinions are beter considered. There is also the “red herring” factor. All of DD2’s college were between 5K and 9K, except one that was 30K. Guess which one she chose. You just never know!

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And you are right, I do mean realism. Still learning this lingo!!

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I’m hesitant to make comments online that, despite my intention, may appear categorical, but colleges with art museums may have particularly strong commitments to the field.

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@shootformoon - Tufts might be a good fit.

It has a larger arts community and a higher acceptance rate than Brown.

Tufts has a partnership with the Museum School at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston that dates back to 1945. It offers a joint 5 year degree program similar to Brown/RISD. The MFA is not right next to Tufts (like Brown/RISD), so it is not as convenient, but the MFA sends some of their faculty to Tufts to teach all of Tufts’ studio art classes. There is a regular shuttle service between Tufts and the MFA for access to additional courses at the Museum School as well as the MFA itself. Tufts has a small local art museum, but there is really easy access via public transportation to Cambridge/Harvard’s museums (2 miles away) and Boston’s world class museums (6 miles away).

http://www.smfa.edu/partnerships
http://www.smfa.edu/studio-art-courses-for-tufts-students

There are no access restrictions to any art courses independent of major, and interdisciplinary activities between engineering, science and the arts are encouraged via minors in Multimedia Arts, and Studio Art as well as an Architectural Studies major.

The courses offered through the Experimental College change every semester, but there are usually a couple of “hands on” arts related courses available.

http://ase.tufts.edu/cms/mma.html
http://ase.tufts.edu/art/undergraduate/minorStudioArt.htm
http://www.excollege.tufts.edu/coursesCurrent.asp

Scientific visualization is one bridge between science and art. Tufts has some nice visualization facilities, but note that they are shut down until summer of 2017 due to construction of the new Science and Engineering Complex. Another new interdisciplinary Engineering/Science/Social Science complex was just completed last summer.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/science_nation/viswall.jsp
http://sites.tufts.edu/construction/science-engineering-complex/
http://sites.tufts.edu/construction/574-boston-ave/

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Check out this article on scientific illustration at RISD and other schools:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0111/p14s02-legn.html

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I’m a parent not an art student or an artist, and these are only my observations, but my impression is that college art classes focus more on the “why” than the “what”. They want students to not only make serious artwork but also to be able to articulate the concepts behind the process. They also generally require (or at least encourage) experimentation with different media.

She’ll find that compared to high school art classes, in college she’ll be exposed to a lot of analysis and evaluation, a lot of delving into progression and influence, a lot of challenge and criticism. A lot of verbalizing – both spoken and written. This environment can be exhilarating or flattening depending on how the student responds to being pushed outside his/her comfort zone.

There is definitely a place for realism in any college environment, but it has to be an intellectually and creatively driven realism, which is somewhat different from straight illustration.

It’s too early to tell whether your daughter will be motivated to combine her interest in art and science, or if she’ll choose one or the other. A solid liberal arts education – whether she goes with a mid-sized private, a large public or a small LAC – will give her the opportunity to explore her options.

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From a practical standpoint – since your daughter’s interest may be to only minor in art – her core technique sequence may simply consist of a progression from drawing to painting to advanced painting. Beyond this, a class in art history would be expected as well as perhaps one technique course outside of her primary medium. A good program will recognize that their job is to teach the skills necessary for the student-artist to work as they would like to. As your daughter gets further in her college search, the normal approaches to finding a proper fit, such as sitting in on a relevant class, will prove to be informative. Academically, she seems a great match for a smaller, even rural, college, but only if she begins to see this as a draw and not a compromise.

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Schools not mentioned so far: Columbia and NYU, offer proximity to NYC galleries; Princeton, has own art museum; Cornell, Ithaca itself is artistic; Amherst and Smith, have open curricula; Wheaton (MA), good overall art program, less selective than other options.

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The New School, though not as strong in science as some as some of the other colleges listed, and probably not an ideal choice for that reason, is worth researching as an example of what the curriculum and artistic emphases are like at a more arts focused school.

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It is so exciting to explore these options - thank you so much!!! I love this process, and thank you so much for your help!!