<p>From what i have seen in CC, many people have done "research" I have personally asked the councelors of my son's school, and they haven't had any students doing "research"</p>
<p>First of all, are high schoolers qualified to do research? Do they have the knowledge? If so, where do they get the knowledge from? Do they actually understand what's going on while doing research? What if a student claims he did Plasma physics research while he was only the clean-up boy who cleans the mess after the actual scientists do research?
How would MIT know the truth?</p>
<p>Don't worry about it. If you're applying now, you can't change anything. If you're applying next year, you can try doing whatever you think is research.</p>
<p>I lot of my friends did research, one at RSI, and several at Stanford. A lot of them started with science fair since middle school. So a lot of students really does research and as they get more experience they work on harder and harder research topics.</p>
<p>But if your son only did clean-up, i am not sure you can call that research. From what i know form my friends they really worked on their own thing. it might be related to their mentor, but they did their own research and own experiments and collected their own data etc.</p>
<p>but if you turn your app in already, don't worry about it. if next year, look up on some of the summer research programs where he can do his own work.</p>
<p>Research is very dependent on the school you go to. Especially in the Midwest, where I'm from, basically no one does research unless you go to a school which has other people doing it. I go to one of those schools.</p>
<p>Yes, it is very possible for high schoolers to do their own research. I was in a lab all summer and I had my own set of keys, came in whenever I liked, and was a contributing member of lab. By no means was I a clean up kid. We had an undergrad for that. ;)</p>
<p>In all seriousness, though, if you're motivated, someone will eventually give you a chance to work with them. Most scientists are thrilled to hear of a high school student who's excited about science and knows about their work to a degree at which they'd specifically ask that scientist for a summer position.</p>
<p>i've been doing research independently since 8th grade. My school doesn't offer any programs or anything for it, and i've been pursuing it at home by myself for the most part. Also, i'm pretty much the only person in my school doing research. i've gotten several national and international honors.
I would suggest, to get started in research, find out what area you are interested in. If it's biology or chemistry, etc...you'll probably need a lab. Many professors in universities are interested in educating youth, so you can try contacting professors with interests like yours. If your research is in comp sci, engineering, math, or maybe physics, it's possible you don't need an official lab, and you might be able to do all your research at home. I would suggest to just read A LOT. Start with some general books, then try to start reading published papers in journals.</p>
<p>Yeah, Coolphreak brings up a good point. I'm a bio person, so I would have needed a lab. I've heard of people doing cancer research since the age of 13, but I know it was a pain enough to get me into a lab at as 17 year old.</p>
<p>While I understand your skepticism, there are truly remarkable kids out there who have done genuine research. The Intel finalists, Westinghouse scholars
have wonderful records. Google some of them, e.g., Megan Blewett, she is
just 17 but has made significant in-roads into multiplesclerosis research and has given testimony in front of congress etc. Quite remarkable!</p>
<p>The whole point is that research and initiative are inextricably linked, and if the only motive driving you to pursue research is getting into college, then you probably wouldn't do a very good job. Kids become "qualified" to do research when they have a passion in a particular area, and stretch the boundaries of their minds to comprehend the necessary concepts. When I did my first real research internship, I had only a 9th grade bio background, but I read a lot, and made myself understand long terminal repeat retrotransposons because I wanted to. If my only motivation was MIT, I can't see myself putting in that much time and effort. Also, keep in mind that CC is skewed, so a lot less kids actually do research than on CC.</p>
<p>Thanks you for your answers.
To rainy:
No, my son did not clean up at a physics lab. That was just an example.
My son had been offered to do research during junior yr to do research at UCLA.</p>
<p>Also, what do you mean by doing research at Stanford? We are next to Stanford U, and we never knew that. RSI is one thing, but can you actually do research at Stanford? </p>
<p>Where do you all find time to read beyond school curriculum? My second son (first is in Berkeley) is aiming fro MIT, and he is a Junior</p>
<p>He is currently taking 5 APs. He is involved with his activities. He doesn't have the time to study beyond. What did you do as a Junior?
Have you loaded yourself with APs, or did you involve youself with science outside high school?</p>
<p>...MIT would know the truth if someone got blind refereed and got an
award which is what the Siemens (Westinghouse) is all about. They
would also know if the research passion brims over into the essays
and other achievements- science fair awards, conferences, publications
etc. and if the teachers providing the letters agree that the student is
passionate about their work....</p>
<p>...plus the interviewer will definitely spot passion and the scientist
and comment about it.....</p>
<p>research is truly driven by a student's passion and is not sustainable
at a national level of achievement without the spark within ...?
In fact the achievements in terms of awards and honors are possibly
secondary compared to the purposeful focus of the individual
:)</p>
<p>Worriemom, you ask a great question. Something I worry about in regard to myself, to some degree. However, arwen15 makes a good points. MIT, as far as I know are not only looking for those who have had the opportunity to be involved but those who have made the opportunity to be involved. I do not mean busting down the doors at stanford and making observations through the nearest microscope at the staff's dismay.
MIT wants those people who are not only impassioned by their FUN, but driven to find avenues to produce from that passion. I would think that MIT and other universities would take the honors of awards or research or sports or self study with equal regard.
You made the distinction between participating in research and doing research. It is an important distinction. I do not doubt the involvement of secondary schoolers in research, but I do bring attention to those directing the research. Any should be proud to have been apart of a team but none should think themselves at great disadvantage to not have been, yet.</p>
<p>What does fun mean to you? Does it mean doing something rewarding yet seemingly simple? Or does it mean doing something you know you can do regardless of your limitations?</p>
<p>I know I'm going to say pretty much the same thing everyone else is saying, but I'll just say it anyways. Freshman to junior year I pretty much studied like 20 hrs a week math/science (usually physics), but I never had an opportunity to actually do resreach. My senior year (this year) when I was at a local state college taking classes, I had so many more opportunitites. I asked around, and in less than a month someone got back to me. It's all just about being motivated. Trust me, if I hadn't spent the last 3 years studying nonstop I would have no idea what's going on. I'm sure that there really are many ppl like me, and some much greater that really can do some amazing research in HS.
I have to admit, I was kind of skeptical too, that so many students talk about doing resreahc in HS. But now that I'm doing it, it doesnt really seem to be that absolutely amazing of a thing. It really seems doable, and it is, if you're devoted and motivated.</p>
<p>To answer WorrieMom's quesiton about junior year,
for me I took AP Chem, AP Physics, AP BC Calc (and other nonscience/math)
plus about 20 hrs/week just doing independent studies/research.</p>
<p>The research at Stanford is called CCIS, it is kind of like RSI at MIT. I don't really do research ( I volunteered to teach middle school kids at a summer program various basics of robotics ) but a couple of my friends did it there this summer. And even if it is not, if you are able to find a good lab, they'll help include you in their research and let you do some of the simple tasks and let you help or try some data analysis.</p>
<p>During Science club, we have people present their research and the stuff they did. It is pretty school. I am still unhappy of the fact that one of my friend killed mice during his experiment XP</p>
<p>be sides.. DUDE!! DOES IT MATTER? you choose what you decide to write on here, and other decide what they want to share on here. if you don't trust her, then you don't have to post anything to aid her.</p>
<p>This is the internet, nothing can the completely credible, especially for some forum.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What if a student claims he did Plasma physics research while he was only the clean-up boy who cleans the mess after the actual scientists do research?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This does, in fact, happen, though it is by no means true of all who do research in labs. My experience at ISEF was that these people then got slammed in the judging, because they crashed and and burned as soon as they were interrupted from their preprepared scripts and asked questions that they hadn't expected.</p>
<p>I would say that if you've done research it would be a good idea to provide some explanation on your app as to exactly what you, personally, did.</p>
<p>Bear in mind, though, that most admitted to MIT have never done research, even if this board would lead you to believe otherwise. You can get into MIT without research experience.</p>
<p>Also bear in mind that you don't have to work in a lab to do research. I didn't, precisely because I wanted to avoid the circumstance which drives your skepticism. I still did two ISEF research projects which won awards at the regional level, one in the Medicine category and one in the Computer Science category. The former was a study on the alleged benefits of magnetic therapy, the latter was a crypto project. For the former, I not only won regional ISEF awards, I got to present the results at the Kentucky Junior Academy of Science.</p>
<p>Too many kids have this idea that doing research means going to a laboratory. You can actually do surprisingly amazing research just by sitting at your desktop, and with some paper and pencil. Yes, even in subjects like bio and chem. It just takes a little more time and brain power... but you're applying to MIT, so you've got plenty of that I hope.</p>