My rising senior is interested in and strong in math. He is not interested in science or engineering but has liked the business and economics classes he has had so far. He has completed AP Calculus (AB) and will take AP Calculus (BC) and AP Statistics next year. We are looking for schools for him in the mid Atlantic and northeast regions that have good math programs as well as options for some type of business major or minor (economics/finance). We prefer schools with less than 10,000 undergrads. I have a number of schools on my list but I’d like others’ opinions on smaller schools with strong math programs. What criteria should I be considering to gauge the strength of a math or applied math program? TIA.
Some schools have statistics as a separate department, while others have it under the math department.
Check catalogs and schedules to see what kind of upper division math and statistics courses are offered, and how frequently.
If he is interested in mathematical economics or PhD study in economics, check the catalogs to see what math and statistics prerequisites the intermediate microeconomics and econometrics courses list, and check for mathematical economics courses. Pre-PhD students should also take several advanced math courses like real analysis and calculus-based probability theory.
If he is interested in actuarial careers, see http://www.beanactuary.com . Preparation for actuarial careers may be similar to preparation for finance careers.
The University of Rochester has an applied math major, a business major with an associated business school, and an open curriculum that would give your son a lot of flexibility to pursue his dual interests.
Some LACs have truly excellent math and economics departments, but they would not offer the business courses and breadth of applied math courses that he also seems interested in.
I’ve been researching the University of Rochester this week. Thank you.
ask his college counselor to look at his Ruggs Recommendations book- it lists / ranks schools based on their programs.
Mathematics in the undergraduate level are of very similar quality everywhere.
That being said, there are exceptions to this rule … (like CalTech, etc.)
Anyways, if your son is more into mathematics,
Literally (and I am not kidding), all of the top “20” universities in the US News ranking for undergraduate are superb places for studying this field (and especially MIT, CalTech, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, UChicago). And outside these 20 universities, you can also add Williams and Harvey Mudd. Though these are liberal art colleges, they also seem to be very highly reputed for mathematics.
Going by USNews:
- Princeton: “John Nash”, “Terrence Tao”. I think this one is self-explanatory.
- Harvard: Well, it’s Harvard…
- Yale: Could pretty much say the same as #2 but with “it’s Yale”
- Columbia: Could say the same as #2
- Stanford: Could say the same as #2
- UChicago: Could say the same as #2
- MIT: Could say the same as #2
- Duke: This school seems to do really well on Putnam Exams and seem to send many of their math students to top grad schools.
- UPenn: This school has Wharton. Arguably the best business school in the world. Pretty self explanatory
- CalTech: Now this is one I should warn. Yes, the math department here is outstanding like the rest BUT they force every student to take theoretical series for Calculus 1 to up. If your son doesn’t like proofs (and are weak at it), I strongly suggest against this university. Yes, the education is top notch but this university is known to make students study like 70-80 hours a week outside class (just an exaggerated stereotype) and if your son detests proofs, this is going to be the worst 4 years of his life. That said,
this school is more for the pure math oriented students planning to later work in the academia. - Dartmouth College: Yay! Seems to be a superb math program. I mean, I use their pdfs for homework help
- Johns Hopkins: For a university known for hospitals, this university is pretty much fantastic all around.
- Northwestern University: Easy to double major and very “fun”. At least that’s what my friends say.
- WUSTL: Well, they do do well on the Putnam considering their math department for graduate studies isn’t that strong. That being said, I will say this school uhmm… is more oriented towards statistics students and not for pure math majors. And to be quite frank, WUSTL math from Calc 1 to Calc 3 is a joke. After that, it seems to differ but ya… it’s still a fantastic school but… in comparison to rest of the top “20 usnews” schools, not so sure… (it’s famous for med school though so the math researches are usually going to be bio related)
- Cornell University: Superb math program.
- Brown University: It’s applied math program is superb.
- U of Notre Dame: Now here is a tough one. If you are planning applied math, I’m sorry to say but cross this off. Now if your son is into pure math and is going to take the honors sequence (the one with 4 semesters of Algebra), it is also a fantastic school for studying math as it seems to place its students very well to top grad schools
- Vanderbilt University: Nashville, undergradaute oriented, fun, fun, fun! Still a fantastic place for undergrad math.
- Rice University: If you ever have to decide between WUSTL, U of Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, well, this school is so much better for mathematics all around. Quality of education here is exceptional and competes with places like U Chicago. Also, it’s #1 happiest student! I truly envy students attending here. If your son has the opportunity to study here! Wow. But I must say, its applied math is more into computer science research… (that said, it’s fantastic for math undergrad all around)
Now, I’m sure what I just listed is obvious. Of course those universities are all fantastic for undergraduate math. They are the top 20 overall for undergraduate studies (at least in accordance to USNews). Well, the thing is, I just wrote this to show you that anywhere will be fantastic place to study for your son.
That being said, since those above schools are super obvious and had been a waste of your time, here are some which I also hold in high regards while the school isn’t necessarily big:
- Williams (pretty much Harvard but for undergrad)
- Harvey Mudd (well, this school is a STEM freak school. It’s not business oriented but for applied math/statistics in the more engineering route or pure route, :). It would be awkward doing business-mathish thing here. Not that the school is bad at it but like…the atmosphere is like all hardcore STEM techies…)
- Pomona/Swathmore/Grinnell/Weselyan ( )
- Carleton (It’s like a somewhat middle between what I said for Reed and Harvey Mudd)
- Reed (if your son is absolute on getting Phd in the more PURE math/stats (not business). Otherwise, ignore it)
??. St. Olaf: I know top students here getting into MIT and it seems to have positive reviews for math but…not so confident with this one. I know academics are rigorous though
- Though I really really don’t want to say this but for math/stats, try avoiding liberal art colleges. Students tend to exhaust all the courses before they graduate and some colleges don’t have the resources for grad level math/stats.
Other universities I didn’t mention:
- NYU (Courant): Yes! Yes! Yes! Business oriented applied math!!! Arguably the best Applied Math for business in the WORLD. Now, the financial aid… is a crapshot (ouch!)
- Carnegie Mellon: Uhmm, it’s undergrad business is tops and its more applied math is quite famous. Although the more applied side seems to be discrete math (Comp Sci oriented math). That said, still great place for applied math/stats study.
- College of William and Mary: Uhmm… Does your son like colonial life? Just kidding. But hey, at least classes are rigorous and you get to ride horses. Though I must admit, this one is a really weird public university. (it’s a fantastic school nevertherless)
- U of Rochester: I think someone said this
- Brandeis: Uhmm… Well, Mitch Albom ^^. Though I don’t know about its math department, I know it is a fantastic school for undergrad education all around.
- Boston College: Reasoning in #4
- After this point, I don’t want to be rude but I think your flagship state universities (I don’t know where you live but…) offer better opportunities than most privates.
Really? There are four year schools with very limited junior/senior level math offerings (often including statistics) that math majors can take. Significant subareas of math may be unavailable at such schools.
“try avoiding liberal arts colleges … Students tend to exhaust all the [math] courses”
As researched for another thread, Hamilton College offers 40 courses in its math department, with 34 of those above the introductory level. If there is a significant advantage in depth in getting an undergraduate math degree from a university, then I have yet to have been made aware of what it would be based on.
Even by percentages of math majors, some liberal arts colleges stand out in comparison to universities:
Williams: 13%
Hamilton: 10%
Bowdoin: 9%
U of Chicago: 8%
MIT: 6%
“As researched for another thread, Hamilton College offers 40 courses in its math department, with 34 of those above the introductory level. If there is a significant advantage in depth in getting an undergraduate math degree from a university, then I have yet to have been made aware of what it would be based on.”
Although I’m sure this won’t relate to PAO’s son, I myself (who is currently majoring in CS) was eligible for Modern Algebra during my first year summer. If I had gone in this pace, by the end of my second year summer (if I was pursuing pure math), I would have had no pure math courses to take from Hamilton College. If the son is truly dedicated in mathematics area and regularly takes two to four math courses, then no, I do not really think liberal art colleges are the best choice.
That being said, I think I did mention Williams being good at math ^^
And to check if a university is strong at the field, well, you can always look at the grad ranking for math as it seems to correlate with undergrad and/or look at the courses offered.
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Also, don’t be dazzled by the number of courses available. No. Make your son look at the possible math courses that he is willing to take. For instance, as a CS major who loves pure mathematics, I would have avoided almost any applied math/statistics courses offered by the university. This severely cuts the number of choices available for the student. And if your son gets even more picky and dislikes certain fields like Topology (which is pretty much geometry in a more abstract way), that school might not have as much math courses as it seems to have.
Sure what I just said sounds a bit “too picky” and very hard for many high school students to know, but it’s possible that he might already know what fields that he would like to avoid. For instance, during my high school, I knew I wanted to avoid any math courses related to biology, chemistry, statistics (and in college, even physics) and pursue computer science related math courses.
That being said, ideally, you should be broad about your choices with math. It’s just that there are students that are very picky and if your son is one of them, many liberal art colleges do not seem to be the best spotlight for your son. There are exceptions to this such as Williams, etc. etc. but it is something to consider. And oh ya, I think this pdf is worth mentioning for many aspiring math majors planning to go to grad school:
http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/academics/math/grad_GRE/MathGradSchool.pdf
There are some disadvantages with liberal art colleges in gettting to math grad schools. I’m sorry but even the math departments at Swathmore admits this. That said, I do not doubt the quality of education in liberal art colleges. It’s just that many professors do not know as much universities outside big research universities.
Econ and math? You got to check out MMSS at Northwestern.
Consolidating my own opinion, and considering the OPs criteria of applied math with business, plus other specified factors, consider (among many others): URochester, CMU, UPenn, MIT, URich and Babson. You didn’t specify your state, but your in-state public options could also be great.
Thank you for all of the responses and information. We are on the east coast and think son will stay in the northeast, with the possible exception of WashU, where his sister went. Schools we have on our “thinking about” list are University of Rochester, Lehigh, Bucknell, Wash U., Brandeis, UCONN (Honors), Carnegie Mellon. We are also considering a few smaller schools, Lafayette and University of Richmond. He has high SAT scores but we still want a few definite safeties which would be UCONN and possible Marist. We think his state flagship would be too big for him, we want a small to mid sized school. And he does not know whether he wants applied math or pure math, which is why I want him to have options. He will be taking AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics next year so that may help him think more about what he wants.
I wanted to add that we might consider Cornell and Brown as additional reaches but we know a few kids who went them and I’m not sure his GPA is quite high enough.
Take a look at the websites for Connecticut College and Quinnipiac University.
Strong statistics programs…according to a Harvard Statistics prof