<p>I was reading on an SDN (:EEK:) thread asking people if they knew then what they know now would tehy still pursue an MD. Once guy mentioned expensive loans and low scores, 209 & 211 & did not give the 3rd. He says it was all a waste as he did not match.</p>
<p>How does that work? How many people simply don't match? I thought if you did not match they could scramble? If you still did not get anything on the scramble, can you either get on a waitlist in case some one drops out or can you re-try for the match the next year?</p>
<p>If you pass the boards, can you really just be SOL? Forever?</p>
<p>Those scores aren’t even all THAT low. The average score is about a 220 and the passing score is, what, 185? So he’s closer to average than he is to failing.</p>
<p>Just speculating, my guess is that he didn’t match into a selective specialty – e.g. dermatology or whatever – which would have made the loans “worth it” to him. Based on the rest of the thread, is that right?</p>
<p>When you have a 209, a 211, and you don’t match, it’s because something went wrong.</p>
<p>First thing that pops into my mind is school. Is this is US medical shool grad or a non-US medical school grad?</p>
<p>Second thing that comes to mind is expectations. Like BDM said, a 209/211 who doesn’t match might have had unreasonably high expectations. Most people with reasonable expectations (who act accordingly) do just fine.</p>
<p>So, a guy from a non-US school…can he try to rematch or is he done?</p>
<p>Sorry to be naive, but in an effort to not be emulating a helicopter parent, I have only learned the application process, I am waiting to hear the reality of med school from DD, but inquiring minds want to know.</p>
<p>Ah, yeah. This is why you don’t go to Caribbean schools. I suspect he’s welcome to reapply.</p>
<p>Seriously. Don’t go to Caribbean schools. (And SGU is already considered the best one.)</p>
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<p>Somemom: We can absolutely discuss the process as much as you like, of course – (although Shades and BRM know the process much better than I do) – but seriously. Don’t worry about this one.</p>
<p>In all honestly, a 209 or 211 isn’t that bad. By my estimation, 1/4 to 1/3 of US med students score at that range or blower. So while those aren’t spectacular scores, they aren’t embarrassing either. For whatever reason, he didn’t match, whether it was because he aimed too high or because he went to SGU. But, not matching happens to US med students as well. Not everyone matches the first time. It’s not a death sentence. You can scramble and if you still don’t match, you can re-enter the match the next year.</p>
<p>I refuse to think about this
I refuse to think about this
I refuse to think about this </p>
<p>Dang it. O.K… So what do you do…put down 9 competitive residencies in (let’s say Derm or Plastics for this discussion) and then some sort of less competitive fall-back in a completely different field? That doesn’t sound even mildly pleasing. At all. </p>
<p>Crap. Like I’ve said recently, when does this competitive “squeezing into an ever smaller chute” end for y’all? (And why would anyone want to do this to themselves? Are y’all- and yes, I include my D- closet masochists? ;))</p>
<p>You aren’t ranking specialties. You are ranking individual programs within a specialty. So, you wouldn’t be putting down 9 different specialties on your residency application. But, it’s not unusual for those applying to uber-competitive programs to have a backup specialty. It’s entirely legal to apply for two different specialties at the same time but there will be challenges when it comes to interviewing and writing essays and getting recs.</p>
<p>I knew the first part of your response…but I can’t r–e—s----i—s—t the urge to have a follow-up. A friend’s kid just went through the match and he wanted Plastics. He was at Baylor Med and did very well there, interviewed all over the country, and is now doing some sort of pre-lim year. What might that mean? He comes from a MD family so he should have known the ropes pretty well so I think you can discount naive mistakes. Did he apply to straight out Plastics residencies and not get them? Or is the pre-lim year just another required “chute” for everybody in Plastics? I really haven’t felt comfortable asking him (or his family). </p>
<p>This isn’t entirely random as my D (as of now) if she had a gun to her head and the scores/factors to make it plausible would chose between derm and plastics (although she knows that she’ll probably change that several times) as her latest research interest has been melanoma.</p>
<p>I’m not sure about plastics specifically but some specialties require you to do a prelim year as your first year of residency. Radiology, for example, is one of these specialties. The radiology residency is 4 years but you must do a prelim or transitional year before starting the actual residency. In fact, you are forbidden to learn any radiology during your prelim or transitional year. This is to allow people going into radiology or anesthesiology to get some exposure to broader medicine before hunkering down into their respective specialties.</p>
<p>So, a year from now, if I were to apply for radiology residency (which I may very well be), I would apply to different radiology programs AND I would apply for a prelim year as well. The prelim year can be done at the same institution at which you do your radiology residency or it can be at an entirely different institution. You generally do your prelim year either in internal medicine or surgery and you would basically function as a med or surgery intern for that year and then you’ll leave the program and do your radiology residency. In general, prelim years aren’t very competitive and there are a lot of hospitals that offer prelim years. </p>
<p>The other option is to do a transitional year instead of a prelim year. Transitional years are very competitive (average USMLE score is around 235 which isn’t much diff from radiology itself). Transitional years are more like 3rd year of med school. You will rotate through different departments in the hospital. They tend to be very cushy and you take less call than you would in a prelim year. That’s why transitional years are so competitive. </p>
<p>So, in the match, you would match into a radiology program AND a prelim year/transitional year program. Radiology and anesthesiology are two specialties that require such a schedule. I’m sure there are others as well.</p>
<p>Hah, so many things going on in this thread that I can comment on.</p>
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<p>First, if you really want something uber-competitive like derm or plastics, the first thing you should look at is your USMLE Step 1 score. Anything less than 240 is going to make your life very hard - there’s something about that number that makes it a cut-off to many competitive specialties. That being said, geographic desirability will make the board score you need for residency programs even higher. Last year I heard from one of our school’s successful radiology matchers that the average Step 1 score for top-notch radiology programs in New York City was 250-260.</p>
<p>The Step 1 score (along with the rest of your application) is just the foundation for getting interviews. The second thing that determines the likelihood of your success in matching into the competitive specialty of your choose is the number of contiguous programs in that specialty you rank when you submit your match list. Basically, the more programs you rank starting from #1 and continuing unbroken to #12, #15, or even #20, the more likely you will match in that specialty. So for example, if you apply to every single plastics program in the country (as one of our successful plastics matchees did last year), get/go to 25 interviews, and rank all 25 programs on your match list, your chances of matching into a plastics program is higher than if you only ranked 10 programs. Of course, the number of programs you can rank is limited by the number of interviews you do, so for those who want a competitive specialty, they should apply broadly geographically to a mix of university and community programs.</p>
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<p>If your friend’s son is doing a prelim year when he wanted Plastics, it means he didn’t match. </p>
<p>Plastics is often a combined 6-year program between general surgery and plastic surgery. Essentially, you spend the first 3 years doing general surgery and then do 3 years of plastic surgery. Of course, you could choose to do general surgery residency, which lasts 5 years, and then do a plastic surgery residency lasting 2-3 years, but the combined programs are more desirable because you save time and don’t have to reapply.</p>
<p>Frankly, from what I’ve seen, the future doesn’t look bright for him. Prelims in surgery are guaranteed a spot for one year. Each year, they have to look for a categorical spot, which is very difficult coming from a prelim year, and if they don’t find one, they’ll have to get another prelim spot for another year. At least in general surgery, you can’t sit for the boards at the end of 5 years if you’ve been trained at more than 3 programs, and I imagine this holds true for things like plastics, as well. What this effectively means is that once you do three surgery prelim years and fail to secure a categorical position at your latest prelim institution at the end of your third year, you’re effectively barred from being able to become a surgeon because you won’t be allowed to take the boards.</p>
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<p>I’ve actually recently made the decision to apply for two specialties, one of which also requires a prelim/transition year. I’ll try to update my little thread about residency apps so people can get an idea of what that’ll entail. What strikes me as being funny is that I’ve heard from some older docs that applying for multiple specialties didn’t used to be the big deal that it is now.</p>
<p>You’re right 'mudge, the only constant is that she will probably change her mind…a few times…she may end up back there but as they do their clinical rotations they’re like kids in a candy shop :)…my kid just finished his first clinical rotation in OB/GYN and much to his surprise he REALLY REALLY liked it…of course he was at Parkland for the OB part and in his first week alone saw two things that his attending said that he himself had only seen once before in his life…delivered LOTS of babies…his GYN experience was equally interesting…scrubbed in on a tubal ligation at St Paul on Wednesday and the Doc let him do everything but the actual cut…it’s been VERY hands on this early in…he’s really excited about things despite having to adjust to going to bed at 9 or 9:30 in order to be up and at the hospitals by 5:30…the kid never knew the meaning of “dark thirty” before…he does now ;)</p>
<p>He starts Psych rotation next week…ER at Parkland…“Friday nite gun and knife club”…the stories are legendary…</p>
My neighbor got some of that good ol’ Parkland Friday night trainin’. He sure has some stories to tell (but I’m also sure he has all the required Hipaa releases ;)).</p>
:eek: With any luck I’ll be dead by then. I just knew I shouldn’t have asked. I’m out. Send in the punt team. Seya.</p>