“Historically on retakes, half go up and half go down.”
That’s actually not the case and is highly dependent on the initial score. On average, scores go up 55% of the time, go down 35% and stay the same 10%. I could only get older data from the CB, but it looked at 700 for math, scores actually went up by an average of 4 pts and a 700 in CR, scores went down by an average of 4 pts.
OP- there’s really no way to answer you question unless you or your daughter find out why the GC made the comment. Do 1600 kids really have a better chance at the colleges your daughter is interested in than 1570 from the high school based on past classes. I would also urge taking it again since your daughter is apparently competing against future Eulers, Hilberts, Ramanujans, Riemann’s.
Yes, she’ll be retaking. NMS qualifying, the supposed policy of CMU (one of her top schools) and general uncertainly about an older test led to that decision.
She’ll also be taking the Chem Subject Test in June, plus APs, so we’re targeting PSAT and SAT together in Oct/Nov.
I cannot overemphasize how much this bothers me. The HS is not focusing its efforts on helping kids who are struggling, but on those who will look better on their brochures.
The HS is not treating education as its primary mission, but as another competitive sport for which the school invests in those it thinks are most likely to win competitions. It’s not even investing in the intellectual development of smart kids, but in their ability to perform in public.
The school is. essentially, using its money to train kids to be unpaid performers for the high school’s PR.
First thought when I see a sub-1600 SAT score is to ask whether the student has considered vocational school or community college.
On a more serious level, waste of time to retake a single sitting 1570 SAT score; better to try the ACT or focus on SAT II subject matter tests. Or focus on something non-academic that the student enjoys doing.
Just chiming back in here. As I noted, above, my D21 insisted on retaking her SAT to make sure she got an 800 on the math section. We were just going over some of the stats for schools she is interested in for next year’s application season. One of the schools has 800 math as the 75th percentile of students. When she saw that, she said, “I told you so” to me, lol. However, again, I think this is very dependent on the individual student. My D knew she had a brain freeze on her first test, which was totally out of character. She knew she would get an 800 the next time around. Some students are just like that. It’s not a matter of luck or chance to them. Now, the EBRW score might have gone down because that section is not her strength. She knew that but was comfortable with the risk because of the possibility of superscoring. On the 2nd test, her EBRW stayed the same, however.
For most students, though, I agree that retaking a 1570 is not worth the time, money or effort.
My junior also scored 1570 first try and we all assumed he was done with testing. However, at his initial meeting last month with the high school college counselors the two counselors got into a debate about whether son should retake to try for a higher score. Eventually the counselors agreed and advised that there was no need for more testing unless son wanted to try the ACT. Son said no thanks.
This. I have heard this on more than one occasion. Especially in regards to ORM students who obsess over PERFECT scores and GPA. “Grade grubbing”. I would NOT recommend a retake.
I think that some GCs want to feel relevant in everything the students do in the college application process. So they feel that they need to advise the kid to do something, no matter whether something needs to be done or not.
“Hmmm… C. Help the student raise their SAT scores, speak with them about the required strategies, and whether SAT prep classes would be helpful”
“So, RockyPA Jr, you’re a smart kid, I think that you could, with some hard work, increase your SAT score by another 50-60 points. What do you mean ‘you can’t’, we don’t want any of that defeatist talk here. Oh, you got a 1570… well… um… I think that you could, with some hard work, increase your SAT score by another (how much would that be?) 30 points, yes, 30 points.”
I would think that taking the ACT would be an even worse decision than re-taking the SAT. 1570 concords to 36 per the official concordance.
We know the student can do well on the SAT but the ACT is unknown. And another SAT gives a shot at a superscore improvement even with the same or lower overall score. Few (zero?) schools superscore between the two.
“Especially in regards to ORM students who obsess over PERFECT scores and GPA. “Grade grubbing”. I would NOT recommend a retake.”
Well these grade grubbers end up at a lot of good places:
Cal Tech has 70% ORM and their 25-75 reads like they love people that score 800s across the board, SAT Math: 790-800 and SAT Math Level 2 Subject Test: 800–800
MIT is 83% ORM, their SAT math is 790-800, Verbal is 730-780
Stanford, 51% ORM, SAT math is 720-800, verbal, 700-770
Harvey Mudd, 51% ORM, math is 780-800, verbal, 710-770
Princeton, 56% ORM, math is 750-800, verbal, 710-770
In the good old days, yeah 1570 would mean you’re done, but today is not the same, especially if you’re an ORM, let me be more specific, if you’re Asian with a 790 on either math or math subject test, you’ll be recommended to take it again. And you ca see why. This doesn’t mean you can’t get in with a 790 of course.
1570 is at the 75th percentile for Caltech and above the 75th percentile for all other top colleges that have published the latest CDS. Interestingly, the 2019-20 CDS, with class of 2023 admission data, includes a new field for composite SAT. So far, we have:
My kid is not an ORM (she is white) but I get the feeling that the ORMs in her HS would be more inclined to retake with such a score. Maybe that is why the GC suggested it, since she probably sees others with similar scores choosing to retake.
You guys are making me rethink the advice we gave to DS?
He scored a 1550 (800/750 CM/EBRW) in 10th and we agreed he was done with SAT. Unfortuntaely, it seems he took the SAT a month too early to confirm his NMSF so needs to take either the SAT or ACT and he decided to go with the ACT in April. He has a very good shot at a 36.
He already has 800s in SAT Math II (9th) and SAT Chem (10th) plus a 780 in SAT Physics (10th). All 5s on his APs to date. 10 on the AIME, USACO Gold…do some think an SAT retake is going to show him any differently? He was able to pretty consistently get perfect scores on the Khan Academy tests at home so he could probably get a 1600 but it just seemed it did not really add anything and I could see him making silly mistakes and dropping…the SAT does not really test upper level math ability I think.
For what it is worth, he hates the SAT and said he felt like he had wasted time when he took it. The questions are not interesting to him. He is hoping for some top 20 schools…
@yearstogo: Why mess with a perfect 800 on the SAT math section by retaking for a higher verbal score ? Better to consider SAT subject tests or the ACT.
@yearstogo On one hand, on all SAT test forms originating June 2018 or later, 800 math involves getting zero wrong. So silly mistakes would be an issue if they occurred. On the other hand, so few colleges still require all scores to be reported. But wait, your student already has an 800 math!
Personally, I would not suggest to my kid to retake a 1550, but that’s just me. (It would be worthwhile for one of the few auto scholarships that require a 1600.)