<p>Declaring financial independence at my D’s private elite school is possible if:</p>
<p>-you are at least 24
-you can provide proof that you have been self-supporting for the previous 3 years and the current year
-you will be self-supporting the year the aid is given for
-neither of your parents declared you as a dependent in the last 3 years.
Also, if you were dependent when you first started attending, you are always considered a dependent by her college, no matter what.</p>
<p>So for most students, declaring independence at my D’s school will get you nowhere. I think that the situation is similar at many colleges.</p>
<p>Another point I’d like to make is that while college is much cheaper (even free?) in European countries, just because you want to go doesn’t mean that you get to go. There are different tracks that the kids get put on, depending on their academic abilities, and college is not in the picture for many of them. At least here, if you really want to go and put in the work to get admitted, you can go somewhere.</p>
<p>I think that most parents really want to help their kids go to college, and do whatever they can to make sure that happens. I would think that it is quite rare for a well-to-do family to refuse financial help. Sure, it may happen in a few circumstances, but only a very few. Those kids can work and go to community college, get good grades, get scholarships at a transfer school, take out loans. It isn’t the end of the world for them.</p>
<p>Not so. That’s the cost for Berkeley, living in the residence halls. UCLA living in residence halls is $26k. It gets cheaper for the other campuses. CSUs, which have a far larger enrollment, are cheaper. Living at home and attending a local UC/CSU is even cheaper, if not the platonic ideal of college experience. If you want to include privates, the cost might climb back up.</p>
<p>Yes, you’re right of course insofar as one takes the “you” in question to be that somewhat holy trinity - dad, mom, kid. What “you” seem at some level to be unable to do is accept the fact that the kid is an individual adult when it comes to college - a separate entity from the mom, the dad.</p>
<p>Now I’m curious about this putting the SAT or GMAT or whatever score on your resume. It’s relatively easy to see if someone actually got a degree from a school. Is it possible for a random employer to verify standardized test scores? Or is this something that would be incredibly easy to fake, especially years later? I’ve never even taken the GMAT, but if I say I got a 780 or whatever, who’s to say I didn’t?</p>
<p>Plenty of kids around here are living at home and attending a local community college, state school, or state school branch. Most of them also work part time. Generally, these are not especially stellar students, and their families are not very well to do. It’s really not a bad option…but since we’re in a prestige driven area…some of these kids and parents feel like they’re not measuring up.<br>
It’s the top high school kids that seem to suffer the most angst. I worked so hard, and all I get to do is go to X? I see WAY too much entitlement in this group. Of course, some of them get lucky and get into HYP with great FA. Others catch some good merit aid. But we see disgruntled ones too…unhappy to be at our state flagship, which is actually pretty decent.
Overall, I don’t see how our system is in crisis. It’s not quite fair, and that’s frustrating. And there are situations where a student suffers…like those with well to do parents who refuse to pay. Honestly, I think that’s pretty rare…I don’t know one soul in that situation. In general, I see decent opportunities for most with some areas to work on. But we have bigger fish to fry here…healthcare included.</p>
<p>Uh . . . am I missing something here? I seem to see post after post on CC by parents who are opting out of full-freight at eite private for public U or big merit at less prestigious schools. In fact, is that not the theme of this entire thread originally??</p>
<p>Yes, health care is certainly a bigger fish to fry, toneranger. Agree completely. But this one - the education system that molds our kids to a large extent - matters, too. A lot. </p>
<p>And it is just as contorted and dysfunctional as health care.</p>
<p>When I was hired a a major financial institution back in the 80’s we had to provide a copy of our GMAT score and they had a cutoff as I knew somebody from another school that had an offer yanked because their score was below 650. Very much an east coast thing. This was right out of B school.</p>
<p>The US health system is the laughingstock of the developed world. The US higher education system is the envy of the world. I don’t know where you get that it’s dysfunctional.</p>
<p>Time and again, I have posted that there are some absolutely terrific state Us. If people suffer from Ivy-envy, it’s no reason to call for dismantling the higher education system–especially if they’re not willing to pay way more in taxes than they currently do.</p>
<p>The original article was commenting on how more families nowadays are looking at the tradeoff between higher prestige and lower cost. There could be similar articles about how more families are considering the same tradeoff for sending their kids to public or private K-12 schools. Or the tradeoff between buying an expensive house in a more highly ranked school district vs staying within budget in a lower ranked area. That’s very different than saying that it’s unfair that financial aid will enable some students’ college dreams based on their family income. </p>
<p>The health care story that often runs through my head comes from when one of my kids (who’s now fine) was badly hurt in an accident out on a well-travelled but remote trail. A ranger showed up with a pickup truck, and asked if we wanted to take our D to the ranger station to meet up with an ambulance, or back to our car. We said the ambulance, of course, and why would anyone want to go back to their car with a seriously injured child? “Because they don’t have insurance to cover the ambulance ride” was the answer. </p>
<p>Not being able to afford to send kids to their top college pick versus a cheaper state school is frustrating. Some other parent not being able to have their kid take an ambulance, now that’s contorted and dysfunctional.</p>
<p>“I seem to see post after post on CC by parents who are opting out of full-freight at eite private for public U or big merit at less prestigious schools”</p>
<p>OK, now I’m confused. Are you saying this equates to a crisis?? Wow…I’m one of those parents who opted for merit from our public U vs private…and on balance…I think we’re darn lucky. Are you saying that the parents who make this choice are shortchanging their children and bankrupting our future? Maybe I’m misreading what your point is here. </p>
<p>I stick to my guns. Yeah, there are problems with our college system. No doubt. But, IMO, the problems pale in comparison to healthcare. I can’t muster much sympathy for kids who can’t attend their first or even second choice due to money. There are PLENTY of good choices out there…and some of them are a terrific value.</p>
Yes they have. Parents’ income has no bearing on a European student’s ability to pay for college since it is free.</p>
<p>
Laughingstock is the correct word, though it’s tinged with pity. The wealthy people who come here for treatment are mostly from third world countries, not Europe.</p>
<p>WOW! This thread has deteriorated from the tradeoff some parents make to send their kids to public colleges rather than private colleges to the absolute “right” that every person has to a college education. I have enough problems with the “right” to the best medical attention (usually referred to as “basic medical costs”) without seeing the spurious claim that higher education is a “right”. I guess it falls under the “pursuit of happiness”, i.e. you pay for my kid to go to the college of his choice and I will pursue what makes me happy.</p>
<p>The average cost that the UCs tell parents to plan on may well be $28K. My frugal daughter, living in her sorority, managed to get by on $19K. </p>
<p>Average yearly cost of a California State University assuming on campus housing ranges from just under $15K (Bakersfield) to $21K (San Francisco State) with most around $18K. ([CSU</a> | Student Academic Support | Campus Costs of Attendance for 2006-2007](<a href=“http://www.calstate.edu/SAS/fa_coa.shtml]CSU”>http://www.calstate.edu/SAS/fa_coa.shtml))</p>
<p>The real deal in California education is the community colleges. Around forty dollars a quarter plus $13 a unit. So your average year, while living at home, runs about $1000.</p>
<p>Even going away to school for two years, you can get a decent education for less than one year at one of those elite privates. And I know hard working kids that today, manage to get through college this way without financial aid from parents. (As for kids living in poverty, they will pay even less.) That’s why we pay our taxes, so all kids can get a college education.</p>
<p>Right now, for parents who feel their kids need more than a decent education, there are many ways for them to help out their kids. And I see no problem with that.</p>
<p>From what I have read, an 18 year old is automatically considered financially independent of parents if he or she is married. </p>
<p>If this is true, there is a huge incentive for my D to enter into a marriage (of convenience) with her very good friend, both of whom would otherwise be paying full freight.</p>
<p>“If this is true, there is a huge incentive for my D to enter into a marriage (of convenience) with her very good friend, both of whom would otherwise be paying full freight.”</p>
<p>Good idea. Unfortunately it isn’t true for some professional schools if she decides on continuing past her undergraduate education.</p>
<p>There are also plenty of state schools that will pay well for good students if a student’s in-state school will not work out for whatever reason. A National Merit Finalist from anywhere in the US can get a superb deal at a (albeit declining) number of state schools. Students with good test scores and grades can also find a decent number of deals out there as well. These may be in areas that some people have preconceived notions about (i.e. the south, the “flyover states”), but they do exist. You can create a fine education for yourself at pretty much any Tier 1 university and many others too. </p>
<p>For me, the complete lack of worry about finances was the most attractive part since it opened up so many extracurricular and study/research abroad opportunities. Now that I have a grad school fellowship, I’ll be getting a total education valued around $300,000 plus all sorts of fun extras for free. That’s a heck of a good deal and frees me to focus on getting the best training in my field that I can get. If the low prestige of my undergrad institution forced me to go to a top 10 school in my field instead of a top 5 school, that’s a tradeoff I’m more than willing to take in exchange for financial freedom and quality of experience. So long as good students go into a state school determined to get the most out of their education, they’ll probably succeed. And no amount of degree prestige can trump success (although I’ll admit that students who have both are very well off indeed, provided they’re not crippled by debt).</p>