<p>It definitely addresses many of the usual misconceptions.</p>
<p>That was a good article. Thanks. Let's celebrate the miracle of homeschooling!</p>
<p>Maybe that link should go up whenever the "joke" thread awakens:)</p>
<p>Yes, and a request for the administrator/moderator to close it because it is offensive. I think we should use the broken record technique. You know, it really is offensive if you think about it. Would they have a thread that went on and on called "Public schooling is a joke!"?</p>
<p>Yeah, I thought about posting that article myself. But then that education professor mucked up what he said about socialization (no evidence of harm) with the comment that some kids get a good education and others don't. His proof? I think an education professor is necessarily biased. He thinks that his profession is necessary and so someone "untrained" might not do as good as job. Given every study I've ever heard of about academic success, I don't see where he gets his information from.</p>
<p>A number of these studies about homeschooling have been done by people who do NOT like homeschooling and expect to find problems. I'm sure if there ever was a study showing any sort of problem we would hear about it. I know I've done searches before and came up empty.</p>
<p>Yes, there may be some mediocre homeschooling results. We definitely know there are some mediocre regular schooling results. So his point is exactly what?</p>
<p>I guess I can't expect an education professor to say homeschooling is great. Then what would be the point of his life's work?</p>
<p>Usually when people talk to me about it, I acknowledge that there are those who don't do well. I think the problem is that there are public schoolers masquerading as homeschoolers. When they don't do well in public school, they quit to homeschool. When they don't do well, they show back up in the public school system behind. I believe that the drop out problem is now difficult to assess because of these people - at least in our state. Our state likes it because it makes their failures look far fewer in number.</p>
<p>I almost wish our homeschoolers would come up with a way to accredit ourselves WITHOUT the government intervening - you know, a voluntary thing.</p>
<p>Just random thoughts.</p>
<p>I've never run across people who don't at least do as well as the public school would have. Generally the ones who do no better are the ones who try to replicate the regular high school experience at home, with correspondence programs, or the usual high school texts and curricula.</p>
<p>Even the people who use the religious curricula I wouldn't touch do manage to understand that math facts, grammar, ability to write, etc., are important, something that seems to have escaped the public schools. They don't teach evolution, but the schools around here don't do a very good job of it either. My son went all the way through AP Biology and every science teacher he ever had always "ran out of time." And it is not like we live in the heart of the Bible belt either.</p>
<p>No one has shown, to my knowledge, that homeschoolers as a whole do worse or that there is a larger percentage of them with problems.</p>
<p>Oh well, I'm being pretty random here with my thoughts as well. I've been reluctant to start anything because I'm waiting for a workman to show up. All morning ... you know how that goes.</p>
<p>On the contrary, there is a study that shows homeschoolers do very well, even if their parents only graduated from high school.</p>
<p>Interesting thought about replicating the public school curriculum. Do you have your curriculum posted anywhere? I would be interested how you approached it.</p>
<p>I dont think educators should fear homeschooling at all. What they do is pretty different from what I do, I think. There is no way I could spend all day teaching and working with a ton of kids who arent even mine-- kids I havent had a chance to shape. But public school educators do this all the time, and I for one am grateful for it. I think they perform a needed function. If they didnt do what they do, wed have a lot bigger problems than we do in this country.</p>
<p>I also think some of the most effective homeschoolers are the people who do it for religious reasons. So I think the stereotype of a ranting preacher drumming anti-evolution into his kids day after day is outta line (not that DianeR promoted this image). Yeah, Ive seen the religious biology books (I have one) and think they are pretty funny. I tried to use one sometime ago because I thought it was pretty thorough, even on evolution. But my kids also thought it was funny. So we ditched it. But I know a lot of religious homeschoolers through my church who teach evolution pretty carefully. They may not believe it, and Im sure they are teaching it right next to what they think is a better theory, but their kids arent ignorant of it in the least. I may disagree with their beliefs, but that is one of the main points of homeschooling in my opinion. I am free to disagree and do something else.</p>
<p>One of the few things I have a problem with in homeschooling is that I see we often take an anti-public school stance that I dont think is necessary. It seems like too many of us sound as if we want to take out the whole public education system. So we may have a problem with creating some hostility between us and public education that we just dont need right now.</p>
<p>1st paragraph: Thank you. I was a public school teacher.</p>
<p>2nd paragraph: Freedom is what it is all about. Why don't public schoolers see it that way though? That's what I don't get.</p>
<p>3rd paragraph: I agree with you. One of the reasons I don't think we fit in well with our local homeschooling group is that they want to reject 100% of what public school is. On the other hand, the public school is really ignorant about homeschooling. I think they should require their administrators/teachers to go to seminars. I had a counselor call me to find out information to tell a parent who was getting ready to take her kid out of school.</p>
<p>Original thought: I think it would be good to have an organization that would start to work for the benefit of both - not to control homeschooling, but lead to better relations.</p>
<p>No I haven't posted it. I think on different Yahoo groups I might have posted the literature for a particular time period and this took quite a long time to type up. I don't know that anyone else would necessarily make the same choices we did or that they should try. Go with what works for you. </p>
<p>I didn't approach things by writing up lesson plans or anything. "Curriculum" sounds like too fine a word! Take 10th grade where we wanted to do courses in medieval history and literature. I looked at what TWTM said. I looked at other reading lists and saw what TC courses there were. Then we just dove in. When something caught my daughter's interest, we would pursue it further. For example, she wrote a research paper looking at the treatment of Justinian by different historians and giving her view of the evidence. But this wasn't anything we planned in advance.</p>
<p>The same thing was true of literature. If a paper occurred to her, she would write it. If not, she just read the work, watched the TC course if there was one, talked over the work with me, and moved on to something else.</p>
<p>Math, science, foreign language, and other text-based courses, she would do the exercises in the text. I would opt for texts that had study guides if I could because it seemed to work out better.</p>
<p>That's about it. I found I liked the Institute for Excellence in Writing's approach to writing instruction (<a href="http://www.writing-edu.com)%5B/url%5D">www.writing-edu.com)</a>. It isn't a prompt-type program, and it was often possible to come up with writing assignments that tied into different courses. It also teaches about how to take notes, which is very useful. My daughter practiced taking notes for lectures with the TC courses.</p>
<p>ooh all good information</p>
<p>I don't mean to sound anti-public school. My kids did have some good years there and it does work for many children all the way through. </p>
<p>I think when people attack homeschooling it is natural for homeschoolers to come up with what is good about it. This looks like an attack on public schools, but often I think it is more a function of people saying that they've looked at pros and cons and made a different choice. I haven't heard people say no one should be in public schools or that they never work. Maybe I don't hang out in those circles. I know I've been on homeschooling boards for years and people spend their time talking about how to hs. They may tell how they came to hsing but that's about it. </p>
<p>I remember in the thread that shall go nameless someone accused us (or me specifically) with bashing public schools. The bashing was essentially defending my decision to homeschool. It isn't as if I was going out, finding a discussion among public school parents and students, and interposing my objections to their choice. I have never gone out of my way to tell anyone that leaving their child in public school would necessarily give them an inferior education, leave them unsocialized and unable to function in the real world, uncaring about others, etc.</p>
<p>I just yearn for the day that, when asked where my daughter went to high school, I can say we homeschooled -- and my questioner says, "Oh," and that's the end of the conversation. Or maybe just a simple followup, "Did she like it?" Wouldn't it be nice to be treated as if this was a normal choice?</p>
<p>I'm all for choice. My son wasn't homeschooled at any point, unless you count some afterschooling in math and evolution (had to get it somewhere). I don't think homeschooling would have worked for him. He had different needs and interests and we had a different dynamic between us.</p>
<p>I find it peculiar that folks don't seem up in arms about private schools. A lot of the same arguments could be lodged against them (elitist, don't come into contact with different sorts of people, not meeting the same standards, not having the same civic culture or whatever that people get when everyone goes to public school). But those arguments are not raised. I'm not saying I agree with the arguments. I'm just saying people can go on and on about how it is important that all young people have the same basic education around each other, but only offer this as a complaint against homeschooling, not private schools.</p>
<p>Well said. I second that.</p>
<p>
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I remember in the thread that shall go nameless someone accused us (or me specifically) with bashing public schools. The bashing was essentially defending my decision to homeschool.
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</p>
<p>Its kind of funny because even in my own defense of homeschooling here one could say I slammed public schools. I didnt mean to do it. I just wanted to point out that if we have to complain about ANYTHING, it ought not be homeschooling but rather the public schools. Id just prefer we not slam either system.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It isn't as if I was going out, finding a discussion among public school parents and students, and interposing my objections to their choice. I have never gone out of my way to tell anyone that leaving their child in public school would necessarily give them an inferior education, leave them unsocialized and unable to function in the real world, uncaring about others, etc.
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<p>Well that is the really big problem. People who have no real interest in my life, no real connection to my kids or anything like that, somehow feel the need to condemn my choices. I dont get that, unless by my choosing to homeschool, I somehow make them feel guilty for not taking the same kind of action. I really think that is what is going on when people do this. So, rather than stick it to them even more, I try to tip my hat toward their choices and show them some respect. It works, kind of. But not always. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I just yearn for the day that, when asked where my daughter went to high school, I can say we homeschooled -- and my questioner says, "Oh," and that's the end of the conversation. Or maybe just a simple followup, "Did she like it?" Wouldn't it be nice to be treated as if this was a normal choice?
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<p>Absolutely! But, you know, I got big enough problems than to spend too much time worrying about this stuff. (Not to say I think you spend too much time on it. Hopefully, you know what I mean). If people can find any little reason not to respect your choices, they are going to disrespect them. They just dont like it when you take different approaches to things. Makes em feel defective or something like you are doing what they know they should be doing. I get this sort of criticism all the time. Its awful, but what can I do about it other than be successful at it?</p>
<p>One thing that really does bother me is how colleges view it. My daughter just had an interview for a school, and the interviewer just made a beeline right for homeschooling. In fact, in all her interviews the interviewers went right after homeschooling. So I really wish homeschooling was seen as normal too. My daughter says she likes being asked about it because it means her colleges are seeing her as different from the other applicants. But I am shaking privately, wondering if the interviewers are just curious or are they already against us and trying to find some justification for their bias.</p>
<p>I hope I havent let my daughter down on this. Im thinking that to confirm her hard work, maybe I should have gotten her some official college classes. But there is no way I could have done this, not in our situation at this time. Still, Im thinking if we could have gotten something like this, maybe she wouldnt have to explain so much about homeschooling, as if it is a weird choice.</p>
<p>Then again, the rebel in me says I should just forget that line of thinking because if I have to get outside education just to kowtow to colleges, then that just defeats my aim to homeschool!</p>
<p>We are just going to have to keep at it. Maybe the reason private schools don't catch flak is because they have proven themselves. Maybe we haven't done this yet because homeschooling (in the modern sense) is still pretty new.</p>
<p>Quit beating yourself up. I'm on the other end of the boat. My daughter has spent more time trying to prove herself by taking college credits and in the process, lost out on being prepared for some of the high school areas the colleges wanted. We can only do our best as parents, but we FEEL SO RESPONSIBLE. It's a heavy burden. I wish the college admissions committees could know what it feels like.</p>
<p>
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We can only do our best as parents, but we FEEL SO RESPONSIBLE. It's a heavy burden. I wish the college admissions committees could know what it feels like.
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<p>Yeah. When you take responsibility for your kids education, you tend to take responsibility for everything about it, including whether it gets them into the colleges. It is pretty funny, really. My kid had to sit me down and tell me to back off when she first started applying. I was just constantly in her face, Did you fill out the profile? Did you write your essays? Where are they then? You make copies? Fill out all your forms? Everything correct on em? It was just crazy for a bit there. I admit, I was losing it. Now, my daughter just hums along, doing her thing, as I suffer in silence.</p>
<p>I need this to be over, real soon. =)</p>
<p>
[quote]
People who have no real interest in my life, no real connection to my kids or anything like that, somehow feel the need to condemn my choices. I dont get that, unless by my choosing to homeschool, I somehow make them feel guilty for not taking the same kind of action. I really think that is what is going on when people do this. So, rather than stick it to them even more, I try to tip my hat toward their choices and show them some respect. It works, kind of. But not always.
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<p>Usually in person I can end up having friendly conversations with people about the subject. Or I can end things with a simple "public school wasn't meeting my daughter's needs -- there is no 'one size fits all' in education." But sometimes people persist ... It seems like on the internet, with anonymity, it is easier to slip into arguments or people feel more free to attack. It is also hard to judge tone with the written word and things can look worse than they were intended.</p>
<p>Sometimes it happens in person too, particularly if it is someone you will probably never see or talk to again. The other day I was getting the third degree even after I mentioned my daughter was doing fine in her dream college. I had thought that once she was in college people would relax, but this obviously isn't true of everyone.</p>
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But, you know, I got big enough problems than to spend too much time worrying about this stuff. (Not to say I think you spend too much time on it. Hopefully, you know what I mean).
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<p>Oh, I definitely understand. I think I'm spending too much time on it recently because I tell myself I will check CC and then I will get started on the taxes. It is amazing how much I have found that I need to say on CC!</p>
<p>Were your daughter's interviews with alums or college personnel? It seemed like the alums my daughter dealt with just weren't familiar with homeschooling. It wasn't so much they were against it as they thought this could give them something to ask about and to try to find out about my daughter and what made her tick.</p>
<p>I don't know if being seen as different is an advantage or not. I think it probably helps at some places and not at others. But at the latter sort of place, it could be that a homeschooled teen wouldn't be happy. I suspect it helped my daughter get what acceptances she did; her application was so different it really made her stand out as an individual. She didn't get in everywhere, but then, few kids do if they are trying for lots of reach schools.</p>
<p>I'll keep my fingers crossed for your daughter.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Were your daughter's interviews with alums or college personnel? It seemed like the alums my daughter dealt with just weren't familiar with homeschooling. It wasn't so much they were against it as they thought this could give them something to ask about and to try to find out about my daughter and what made her tick.
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</p>
<p>Yeah. She interviewed with alums. They seemed to have gone very well. So maybe it is all just as you say. Thanks, because it gives me a bit of relief. (On a slightly related note, you really have to hand it to the admissions folks at the colleges. They have to go through so much paper. They probably get tons of calls from anxious students, anxious parents, anxious everybody, and yet, they seem to get it all done pretty nicely. The alums for my daughters last two interviews seem to know a lot of stuff about her even before they talked. So the admissions folks were obviously ahead of the eight ball enough to get them the info. Thats just amazing.)</p>
<p>
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I don't know if being seen as different is an advantage or not. I think it probably helps at some places and not at others. But at the latter sort of place, it could be that a homeschooled teen wouldn't be happy. I suspect it helped my daughter get what acceptances she did; her application was so different it really made her stand out as an individual. She didn't get in everywhere, but then, few kids do if they are trying for lots of reach schools.
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<p>Good point. Basically for me, homeschooling is a way I can get my kids the attention and environment they need to learn and explore without a lot of the weirdness that can happen in public school. Now that they are up and strong, I just want them to go out and be like everyone else. They are obviously ready because they are already doing it in their jobs, in our community, and everywhere else. So if a college is just so fixed on homeschooling that it would make them feel weird, maybe they shouldnt be there. I hear colleges like Stanford are very open to homeschoolers. If true, then it is a great thing.</p>
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I'll keep my fingers crossed for your daughter.
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<p>Oh, my daughter is just fine. Keep your fingers crossed for me! LOL</p>
<p>"The other day I was getting the third degree even after I mentioned my daughter was doing fine in her dream college. I had thought that once she was in college people would relax, but this obviously isn't true of everyone."</p>
<p>This reminds me of the principal I sat across at lunch one day. Even though I told her my daughter had made A's in her college classes, the lady argued about whether my daughter could function in society.</p>
<p>?</p>