Review of SCAD by parent

Colleges and Universities A-Z Savannah College of Art and Design
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<p>FWIW, <a href="http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/weblist0106alpha.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/weblist0106alpha.pdf&lt;/a> lists all other schools accredited by SACS. I'm not sure why people are so misinformed about accreditation, but any school worth anything is accredited by a regional accrediting body. Any form of national accreditation is extra (and yes, very expensive, very time consuming, and - obviously - not that useful in recruiting students, as SCAD has had little trouble growing to over 7000 in under 30 years). </p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegedegreeguide.com/articles-fr/accredited-college-university.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegedegreeguide.com/articles-fr/accredited-college-university.htm&lt;/a> is a useful discussion of this process.</p>

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<p>Jkolko and RainingAgain, NO ONE is saying that SCAD isn't accredited. Let's make that clear! We do know it is SACS accredited.You and others have certainly made that clear.</p>

<p>Also, SCAD, in recent years, became a non- profit institution, which in my mind is a step in the right direction.</p>

<p>However, many of the better ranked regionally accredited art schools and schools with art programs are ALSO NASAD accredited. SCAD isn't NASAD accredited. Again, I am speaking only towards NASAD accreditation.</p>

<p>NASAD was formed to insure "minimum" standards among art programs. Top ranked schools such as Yale, Pratt, RISD, Michigan, UCLA, Parsons, SVA, SAIC, MICA, RIT, Cincinnati et al. are NASAD accredited in ADDITION to their normal regional accreditation.</p>

<p>Yes, I do know that getting an additional accreditation such as through NASAD is a BIG PAIN. However, SCAD makes lots of money. They could easily hire one person to handle the accreditation process.</p>

<p>In my judgment, this lack of NASAD accreditation taints the school, and you both know this to be true, even if you don't admit it in this forum.. This is all that I believe is being said.</p>

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<p>//Yes, I do know that getting an additional accreditation such as through NASAD is a BIG PAIN. However, SCAD makes lots of money. They could easily hire one person to handle the accreditation process.</p>

<p>In my judgment, this lack of NASAD accreditation taints the school, and you both know this to be true, even if you don't admit it in this forum.. This is all that I believe is being said.//</p>

<p>Hire 1 person? It doesn't work like that TG. Accreditation requires the participation of all departments - there are something like 27, numerous faculty, and staff. Please do not make it sound so simple. Does it taint the school? In the court of public perception and in your eyes, sure, but unfairly. Does it effect the quality of the education at the college not to have NASAD accreditation? No. There are thousands and thousands of of very successful graduates working within the fine and applied arts. Faculty are well qualified with terminal degrees. Many came i with lengthy professional resumes.</p>

<p>I'm sure there is a reason why the college has not pursued NASAD. I can't tell you what it is, but yes, I wish they would pursue it so that irrelevant discussions as this come to an end.</p>

<p>Acrreditation does not teach, people teach.</p>

<p>Besides, the school is accredited by SACS which ensures that appropriate standards in education are met. What do you think those standards are? And how different do you suppose the standards for teaching drawing and english literature actually are? Teaching methodologies may be applied across many disciplines.</p>

<p>Do the students have access to professors? Yes.
Are class sizes conducive to a learning environment? Yes.
Are the facilities adequate? Yes.
Are the faculty qualified with terminal degrees? Yes.</p>

<p>One thing I will add is that SCAD does not generally use adjunct professors. This ensures that faculty work together to systematically develop cohesive and consistent programs. Faculty do not simply come and go, but work with each other and for the college to develop an outstanding learning/teaching environment. That was my experience.</p>

<p>Since you have never been to the college, or spoken to any one at the college, I suggest your opinions are largely irrelevant anyway. You have two people here that used to or presently work at the college offering you and others the most dependable information possible.</p>

<p>Also...I will say that despite your concern over the college's decision to to pursue NASAD accreditation, the college presently offers many advantages to students that your holy NASAD schools largely do not offer.</p>

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<p>Taxguy, you pretty much nailed it with your last post. This argument has gone around in circles and if the greatest proponents of SCAD here say they don't know why SCAD isn't NASAD accredited, then who else might answer the question? </p>

<p>("Cost" is not a sufficient answer, just a diversion. As I posted earlier, my university has been going through its own general 10-year accreditation review, but several dozen individual schools and programs will also be going through periodic accreditation in their special areas -- medicine, labor relations, social work, public administration, education, etc. It's part of the necessary cost of program-specific credibility.)</p>

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<p>//Taxguy, you pretty much nailed it with your last post. This argument has gone around in circles and if the greatest proponents of SCAD here say they don't know why SCAD isn't NASAD accredited, then who else might answer the question? //</p>

<p>The issue here is relevance. Is it relevant that SCAD is not accredited by NASAD? No. It's that simple. I saw and presently see no issues at the college of any concern. </p>

<p>No one has said cost is the reason. I simply explained that it is not as easy as TG makes it sound. Hire one person? Nooooooo. It didn't work like that.</p>

<p>Sure I am frustrated by the discussion. And I am sorry I do not know the answer. But again, as a former student and staff member that married a faculty member, I have zero concerns about it other than squelching the alarm that it causes some in the court of public opinion.</p>

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<p>Taxguy: I'm responding to this quote: "Each year I have been told by a SCAD rep. that SCAD is in the process of applying for accreditation." While artteach did not say "SCAD is not accredited", it was certainly implied there.</p>

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<p>By the way, RainingAgain and Jkolko, no one is saying that a school HAS to be NASAD accredited to be a good school and have fine professors. It is just that NASAD is just one additional way we parents can help evaluate a quality school.</p>

<p>You folks know this is true. I think that Jkolko noted that he attended CMU, and RainingAgain attended RIT. Both of these are excellent schools with excellent programs and are BOTH NASAD ACCREDITED. When you attended college, you each attended a top-notch NASAD accredited school.</p>

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<p>I also did not see SCAD on the list of the Association of Independent Colleges of Art and Design (AICAD) " a consortium of 35 internationally recognized colleges of art and design. The association provides numerous benefits to it's member colleges, including a student mobility program, ready access to internship and study opportunities in New York City, faculty and staff development programs and advocacy for strengthening of visual art education in our society. "</p>

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<p>That is the point Artschoolmom. SCAD only has the regional accreditation. SCAD doesn't have any of the art school "ancillary" accreditations that many top art schools and schools with strong art programs have. SCAD should just get this done and be done with this discussion. It raises a red flag that I don't think SCAD needs to have raised.</p>

<p>I certainly don't buy the argument that it is costly or too much of a hassle. I agree with Mackinaw that people who are stating these arguments are using cost and hassle as a smoke screen. It is important to a lot of parents and students. They should just get it done.</p>

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<p>True, because it appears that it is not just a question of "guidelines" (such as tenure for faculty), but the students would also miss out on opportunities. Forgive me if this is redundant; it's a really long thread !</p>

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<p>//By the way, RainingAgain and Jkolko, no one is saying that a school HAS to be NASAD accredited to be a good school and have fine professors.// TG</p>

<p>Good. That's my point. So why make it a critical issue?</p>

<p>//It is just that NASAD is just one additional way we parents can help evaluate a quality school.// TG</p>

<p>Sure enough, but accreditation is paperwork. What happens in the classrooms is what validates a program. </p>

<p>From the ACA site:
19. Why does SCAD not apply for the NASAD accreditation? </p>

<p>...Should the Woodruff Arts Center Board of Trustees and the Savannah College of Art and Design Board of Trustees approve the recommendation from the Atlanta College of Art Board of Directors that ACA become part of SCAD, SCAD will study the possible benefits or disadvantages of pursuing NASAD accreditation.</p>

<p>//I also did not see SCAD on the list of the Association of Independent Colleges of Art and Design (AICAD) " a consortium of 35 internationally recognized colleges of art and design.//</p>

<p>At this time, SCAD is not a member of either AICAD or ARCHE. SCAD will review the benefits of joining each group.</p>

<p>//I certainly don't buy the argument that it is costly or too much of a hassle.//</p>

<p>Stop it. No one has made that argument. The only point I have made is your characterization that it is an easy process - like hire 1 person.</p>

<p>//True, because it appears that it is not just a question of "guidelines" (such as tenure for faculty), but the students would also miss out on opportunities. Forgive me if this is redundant; it's a really long thread !//</p>

<p>Tenure for faculty is NOT a basis of accreditation.</p>

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<p>//At this time, SCAD is not a member of either AICAD or ARCHE. SCAD will review the benefits of joining each group.//</p>

<p>I visited the AICAD site after stumbling on an interesting fact. Apparently, students that attend one of the AICAD schools can attend another of the AICAD schools as a visiting student for 1-2 semesters. This is a real plus in choosing a school that is an AICAD member. In addition, I thought the site was very informative regarding issues such as BFA vs. BA, career planning, etc.</p>

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<p>My son went to SCAD (computer art) and found immediate employment in the computer gaming industry, where he's still happily employed six years later.
And isn't that really the bottom line here?</p>

<p>Tenured profs or not, the school does good work. </p>

<p>The campus, such as it is, is charming. But Savannah itself is an odd mix of poor and rich Southerners, military types and edgy SCAD students. The school's loose confederation of buildings, spread throughout the historic district, tends to put the students in odd places at odd hours. A reliable bicycle might be a wise investment. </p>

<p>Can't answer the accreditation concerns. If the kids are getting hired, though, it almost seems a moot point. </p>

<p>I had to chuckle, though, at the suggestion that SCAD is a non-profit institution. The founding Rowan/Poetter families probably have never done anything that wasn't for profit.</p>

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<p>//I had to chuckle, though, at the suggestion that SCAD is a non-profit institution. The founding Rowan/Poetter families probably have never done anything that wasn't for profit.//</p>

<p>BTW, it is a non-profit. It is not a suggestion. </p>

<p>Former President, Richard Rowan (former husband of Paula) and President Paula Wallace were/are salaried employees of course. And they were/are paid very well. Tuition at SCAD is not cheap, but it is far less expensive than many private art colleges. Many many many students receive generous scholarships based on portfolios, academic records or need. I believe faculty are paid a bit better than the average salary. Employees, staff and faculty, also receive profit sharing. Part of running a non-profit institution is paying the salaries of the employees. Even the Red Cross, and Habitat for Humanity, etc have expenses. You might argue that the president's salary is exorbitant, as has been done here, but when you consider that it is a fraction of 1% of the institution's revenues, it isn't appropriate. The Rowans borrowed and invested monies to start the college. I have no problem with people earning a return on their investments. Regardless of the facilities, and salaries, the school is very very generous in offering scholarships.</p>

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<p>Raining,</p>

<p>Your knee-jerk defense of the Rowans & Poetters smacks of the kind of paranoia that is part of SCAD's more unseemly past. If you reread my post, you'd see that I was mostly in high praise of SCAD. Do you work for Paula Poetter-Rowan-Wallace, or something? <g> </g></p>

<p>Let me enlighten you, though, about the scholarship thing. Lots of private colleges give "scholarships" that are nothing more than standard tuition discounts. It's like buying a car. The uninformed pay sticker price.</p>

<p>The top level SCAD scholarship is awarded to students who got a perfect score on either the SAT or ACT. The next-best is for $15K per year and students need 1530 ACT/35 ACT. Third-best ($10K) requires 1450 SATs.
My point is, students at these levels are probably going to qualify for the same (or better) scholarships at any college that awards merit-based aid.
SCAD, therefore, isn't overly generous. They're just competitive.</p>

<p>All that said, however, and all of SCAD's strange and murky past aside, it appears to me to have delivered as promised. It seems to be producing well-trained graduates worthy of hiring. I wish the school - and Paula <g> - nothing but the best.</g></p>

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<p>//Your knee-jerk defense of the Rowans & Poetters smacks of the kind of paranoia that is part of SCAD's more unseemly past. If you reread my post, you'd see that I was mostly in high praise of SCAD. Do you work for Paula Poetter-Rowan-Wallace, or something? <g> //</g></p>

<p>How is it knee-jerk? You misrepresented a truth. I posted facts. Unfortunately there is a great deal of misinformation that is often stated about the college. I find it perfectly appropriate to correct the untruths. It isn't paranoia; it is protecting the integrity of my degree and the reputation of the college which is a decade past its troubles. Do I work for SCAD; not any more, but I do have a spouse that does. I've seen the school up close and from a short distance for well over 15 years now. </p>

<p>//Let me enlighten you, though, about the scholarship thing. Lots of private colleges give "scholarships" that are nothing more than standard tuition discounts. It's like buying a car. The uninformed pay sticker price.//</p>

<p>Scholarships are based upon the criteria I listed. I believe 40% of the students receive monies from the college. All for a deserved reason. Guess what, I used to review applications and recommend portfolio-based scholarships, I know all about them. Thanks.</p>

<p>//The top level SCAD scholarship is awarded to students who got a perfect score on either the SAT or ACT. The next-best is for $15K per year and students need 1530 ACT/35 ACT. Third-best ($10K) requires 1450 SATs.
My point is, students at these levels are probably going to qualify for the same (or better) scholarships at any college that awards merit-based aid.
SCAD, therefore, isn't overly generous. They're just competitive.//</p>

<p>You fail to mention portfolio based scholarships and need-based scholarships. Differenttypes of scholarships may be combined as well. Visit the site, you will see many opportunities.</p>

<p>//All that said, however, and all of SCAD's strange and murky past aside, it appears to me to have delivered as promised. It seems to be producing well-trained graduates worthy of hiring. I wish the school - and Paula <g> - nothing but the best.//</g></p>

<p>Of course, and that murky past does not need to perpetuate itself. It is in the past; and quite frankly if you dig in the dirt, it wasn't that dramatic or strange. It was a new institution, that grew quickly and as a result went through a couple of growing pains.</p>

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<p>I have to agree with shoe66. He clearly was making a harmless sarcastic comment, and not trying to "misrepresent the truth" as you put it.</p>

<p>Your paranoia has got to the point where you can't even recognize someone who supports your institution. And that is what shoe66's original post was all about.</p>

<p>Your paranoia tells me that something is definitely going on. Kind of like how the Scientologists freaked out when South Park did a show on them.</p>

<p>It's SOUTH PARK for God shake! It's a joke, and by responding so harshly to it you give the joke credibility.</p>

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<p>dguy, thanks.</p>

<p>Raining, you need to chill out. You say SCAD's past wasn't dramatic or strange. Some students were upset with the administration and exploded a pipe bomb outside one of the buildings. I'd say that's strange.</p>

<p>Listen, it's a good school. But based upon posts from Raining, draw your own conclusions about the paranoia that apparently still pervades the people who work there. </p>

<p>Have a nice life, Raining.</p>

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<p>Fair enough. I am defensive, and sensitive to the overdramatization and misinformation about the college that continues to be perpetuated by some people.</p>

<p>I replied to your comment about SCAD's non-profit status because it has already been discussed ad nauseum on this board, and it is irresponsible to perpetuate untruths. There are many people who think, still, that it does not have non-profit status. It does.</p>

<p>You used the term "pipe bomb" as did the media. You are the "alarmist." People hear "pipe bomb" and we visualize bombs like the one that went off at the Atlanta Olympics with shrapnel, nails, etc flying everywhere. There was little or no damage. It was more like a firecracker. It left trace evidence only. I'm 100% certain that no student has ever vandalized any other school, ever. You, know...when I attended RIT, a student in a fit of rage over grades, put a table through a large glass window at Sol Heumann hall. That incident was more destructive. Lets talk about that one!</p>

<p>Still, if you want to say that the school HAD problems for a couple of years and experienced some growing pains, that's fine. But there is no reason to characterize it today, by events that occured 15 years ago. This is my mission. Let bygones be bygones and evaluate the school for what it has become. Your son probably attended the college at the same time as myself. I, however, have had the luxury of watching the college and administration mature.</p>

<p>Richard Rowan is long gone.</p>

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<p>//It's SOUTH PARK for God shake! It's a joke, and by responding so harshly to it you give the joke credibility//</p>

<p>Point taken. Good comment. Yeah okay...the joke's on me.</p>