<p>Wise words, Blossom! :)</p>
<p>Not too well versed in these types, but maybe Davidson?</p>
<p>U of Tulsa</p>
<p>BC would be perfect</p>
<p>M's Mom, I don't think there's any way to get to the next level of comfort without visiting. So let's work backwards here. Which schools has your daughter already visited? Of those which did she like (in addition to W&M, if any) and which did she cross off the list? </p>
<p>This would help put the others in a context of similarities.</p>
<p>As far as isolation goes, I think there is nuance here too. My son liked both Hamilton and Kenyon, a lot, but for sure, they are a lot more remote than Williams. Williams is rural, but it has a town (well, maybe a village) with basic requirements -- a few restaurants, shops, movies, services -- within *walking *distance. The Berkshires are actually a very sophisticated arts-focused environment. </p>
<p>Hamilton, Kenyon and I think Conn College are just the campus, period. There's a general store but for any other diversion you have to get off campus which entails a car.</p>
<p>I'd agree with the suggestions to try Amherst -- not so artsy, but lively -- and Wesleyan -- a little edgier but cheerful.</p>
<p>I don't want to get into a who-drinks-most-where debate, but I can tell you from personal experience that Williams' reputation as a drinking school is much exaggerated and its reputation in the arts is much under-appreciated.</p>
<p>Another thought: How about Skidmore? Active, artsy and clean-cut in feeling. Saratoga Springs is a lively and charming small town with a lot of diversion.</p>
<p>I think overall campus culture is more accurately reflected during a visit than in the classic PR lists of most this/least that--though those lists are fun to read and ponder.</p>
<p>As momrath noted, Williams isn't a drinking school in the massive stereotypical sense. Nor is it really isolated--it makes its own world, and the Berkshires are not exactly nowhere. Same with Dartmouth: Hanover is a regional cultural centers as well as a medical center, and there is plenty of mainstream commercial activity there or nearby, as well as an entrance to I-91. </p>
<p>Admissibility, location, mood--visit as many places as you can and see what works--and apply to a few wild cards too. You never know where admissions decisions and luck (good or bad) will lead you.</p>
<p>As far as Rice goes, yes it's in the middle of a large city, but it doesn't feel that way. The campus is very discrete from its surroundings, and the area has a suburban (not urban) feel. In fact, many Rice students don't take advantages of all the wonderful nearby things (world class museums, ballet, theatre, symphony, zoo, major league sports teams, ethnic restaurants, etc) and choose to stay "inside the hedges" of the campus.</p>
<p>I would second the recommendation for Bowdoin also as fitting your daughter's description of what she's looking for.</p>
<p>W&M is in the Princeton Review book BTW - best schools in the southeast list. The bottom line is that college kids drink everywhere. I went to W&M over 30 years ago and no one - outside the school - ever called it a party school, but I had a group of friends who gave the party schools a run for their money. The nice thing was that, in that same group, were friends who rarely, if ever, drank. I also went there absolutely against joining a sorority and didn't go through rush, but ended up joining one second semester and had a great time. I loved living in the sorority house. Not all sororities are full of wasted party girls. Ours was a very eclectic group. We never went to Richmond, but spent lots of time on the road to Virginia Beach and to the Outer Banks of North Carolina. The thing I miss, to this day, is walking or riding my bike through Colonial Williamsburg at night. I agree that visiting may sort all this out. My D's first choice school started out at the bottom of the list - I had to force her to visit. She loved it. The "accepted student day" visit to what had been her top choice school completely knocked it off the list. This is a fluid process so it is good to leave some room for things to just happen.</p>
<p>I would look at Denison U in Granville OH. Granville is a quaint little town that embraces the school. It is also only 35 miles to downtown Columbus OH. Competitive sports teams, lots of activities, supportive climate for the students.</p>
<p>Smack dab in the middle of a city is not always an issue, if the college has a defined campus. Colleges like NYU, GW, Pitt, BU are too integrated with the city itself, but schools like Tufts, Fordham, American, Carnegie Mellon are not. Are you going to qualify for FA through PROFILE as well as through FAFSA? If not, you need to look at some schools that will include merit money. If PROFILE numbers come out close to what you consider your need, those schools you have other than Michigan, W&M are decent in meeting need, but they are not big merit aid schools if at all.</p>
<p>Thank you for your input, folks!</p>
<p>Thanks for the thoughtful descriptions of places, and especially for re-centering me.
I was getting a little crazy when it looked like half of the list was getting nixed (and unfortunately ones where I thought the needbased aid looked good), just when I thought we could finally concentrate on cramming in remaining visits.<br>
Now, with your suggestions, I hope my daughter can pin down which ones need to be seen. Time and money-wise, the visits are tough, but I gather they are essential so we will do our best.<br>
Not looking for perfection here--the original list is full of compromise--just trying to give it our best shot. Your opinions have been very very helpful.</p>
<p>If we make a trek south to any of these: Vanderbilt, Davidson, Emory, W&L-- are there any others nearby that you would recommend? We have seen UVA and Wm and Mary.</p>
<p>Have a good week, everyone.</p>
<p>If you're going to be in NC, you might want to check out Wake Forest. Beautiful campus, just under 5000 students, big school spirit, decent town outside campus and not too far from Greensboro. </p>
<p>I totally get where you're coming from, Madeline'sMom. The LIST has become the fifth member of our family. It's a living, breathing, ever-changing entity. My D and I sat down with it again this past Sunday to plan some visits, and of course, two schools came off the LIST and one new one was added.</p>
<p>Have you looked at Vassar? It's an easy train ride away from NYC - although I'm too busy to go often, a lot of people go all the time. The academics are strong but there's not much of an overly competitive spirit at the school, which is something I love about it. Everyone wants to do well, but nobody really seems concerned with doing better than everyone else, if you get what I'm saying.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wants:</p>
<p>Sporty, spirited, friendly, artsy.</p>
<p>Not huge </p>
<p>Drinking on weekends is not the primary social activity
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am biased but Northwestern may fit the criteria:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Sporty
It's in the competitive Big10 and no, it's not usually the worst team in it in most sports, including basketball and football. The football team isn't as good as Michigan/Ohio St or even Wisconsin/Purdue. But it's competitive enough that even teams like Michigan/Ohio St. don't take it lightly. The w. lax just won the NCAA and w. tennis was ranked #1. Students are pretty active and it was ranked the fifth fittest college by Men's magazine in 2005.</p></li>
<li><p>spirited
Not sure what that means but many students go to football games and tailgate parties</p></li>
<li><p>friendly
It's often said that NU students are friendly and less competitive than those in peer schools in the Northeast</p></li>
<li><p>artsy
It's music, theater, and film programs are some of the best out there. There are lots of quality performances on campus, including the best college show in America - Waa-Mu. One of the dorms is filled with artsy type. Northwestern is known for being "preprofessional" but the term is a bit of an misnomer. People are preprofessional in the sense that many want to be professional musicians, dancers, screen-writers, actors, directors, engineers, or educators. The fraction of poeple going to investment banking/managment consulting/business is significantly less than that at Ivies, and believe it or not, UChicago.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>"I totally get where you're coming from, Madeline'sMom."</p>
<p>-- I'm so glad someone can relate, chintzy. I'm sure your sense of humor is helping. Maybe my problem is that I wasn't prepared for another member of the family :) ! Good luck to you and your D. </p>
<p>Thank you for the suggestions, everybody!</p>
<p>It looks like we will try to make a trip to the Boston area, and also to Northwestern. Maybe we will see UChicago while there--location and size seem up her alley, and although it doesn't seem either sporty or artsy, there is some sort of creative quirky vibe that appeals to her from the stuff they have sent in the mail.<br>
(Washington and Lee? Emory? Amherst? Bowdoin/Colby/Bates? Help! Gas is expensive...)</p>
<p>Also, there are some schools that were almost on the list, and might move onto it, in the "ever-changing entity" sort of way! Not that she didn't like them (rare for her to outright not like a place), but that the list was already too long. In order to narrow things down, she picked her favorite(s) of similar schools. Also, I didn't want her to have more than a couple where the chance of good aid seemed really low, or to have a reach-heavy list either, although I know some of you advise adding more reaches so there is more of a chance of getting into one. </p>
<p>I think she is supposed to end up with about eight applications, but some kids have supposedly been getting around that with common app schools. </p>
<p>So, more travel and re-shuffling is anticipated.</p>
<p>I have been informed that if my D doesn't want intense, don't bother looking at Chicago. Well alright, that will shorten the trip and more time to spend at Northwestern. Or to go to Emory?</p>
<p>M'sM, If you happen to go to Chicago, please take a quick drive out the south side of the campus DURING the daytime. We came in from that way to campus and got an very bad impression of the area.</p>
<p>Honestly, I do think all 3 Maine schools you mentioned meet your criteria. Colby and Bowdoin are now no-loans too. The schools are <em>incredibly</em> friendly. They are both sporty and artsy (Bates and Bowdoin particularly artsy) and have a lot of school spirit.</p>
<p>I think the Maine schools make sense. But I'd skip Washington and Lee. It's got a somewhat preppy conservative student body and a huge Greek presence. If it's what you are looking for it's a nice school, and I like the town very much (my parents lived there for about ten years).</p>