Revisiting the "How Hard Is It?" question

Colleges and Universities A-Z Reed College
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<p>I'm a parent of a rising senior. He's got SAT's in the mid 700's, 3.9UW GPA, all that. He's considered the most intellectually passionate student at his very small charter high school. He spent last summer at Stanford Summer College, got a 3.85 there. Even in 'challenging' classes, he's never had to work hard. His biggest problem has been that he waits until the last minute to do projects/papers, and sometimes turns things in late. But he has no problem doing massive amounts of reading, being involved in classes, etc. He's basically a quirky kind of person, and tends to be very "chill" about school stuff. </p>

<p>He got interested in Reed this spring because of several things: the location, the community, the size, the nuclear reactor. The thing is, he's now freaked out and says he won't apply because he's heard horror stories about working so hard. He's actually constantly freaking out to me that he would fail out and ruin his life, because he does papers at the last minute. He's heard that Reed is much harder than Stanford, and doubts his abilities. </p>

<p>So, what do current students think? I've got at least one friend who evidently failed out of Reed, and spooked my son by writing in my blog about how awful that was. I contend that while he'll probably work, he's probably a little premature in imagining he'd ruin his life if he chose to attend Reed. When I suggested that he do an overnight visit and test out that way, talk to students, etc, he said he was just sure that that wouldn't give him enough "real" info to tell. </p>

<p>Ideas? Reassurances?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
His biggest problem has been that he waits until the last minute to do projects/papers, and sometimes turns things in late.

[/quote]
Speaking as a Reed alum, not a current student, I can say that Reed requires a lot of effort; the work is unrelenting (not that you don't enjoy a lot of it). It definitely helps if you love to think, and if you're really smart. For some things you can wait til the last minute to write, but you'd better be keeping up with your reading as best you can. In subjects with problem sets, exercises, and papers due, you can't put the work off. And turning in things late is a no-no. (Just like in my own work -- there really are meaningful deadlines in life, something it's time for your son to learn perhaps.)</p>

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<p>I'm a Reed freshman parent. I agree completely with mackinaw. Our daughter's grades and test scores were in the middle of her admitted class, so well below your son's. She worked hard in high school, and works much harder now; Satuday nights are typically in the library. The difference compared to high school is that she loves it; classes are much more stimulating. Students seem very close and supportive of each other. Reed's staff and location provide good fun during study breaks. She loves her life at Reed. Before classes started she was apprehensive of the reputaion for rigor, but she nonetheless had no doubts about Reed being her top choice, and she has thrived. Reed places equal importance on high school record and essays (less on SATs), and says there are no admissions mistakes (personal choices and issues account for those leaving). I do suggest pushing your son to make the overnight visit, but if he comes back unconvinced that Reed is his place, then drop it; his attitude probably will be a factor in his success. He's got nothing to lose, and might find his people hiding at Reed!</p>

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<p>Most kids who are applying to top colleges don't have issues with High School. Most, however, have aspirations to a higher level of learning--if your son fears the prospect of working for his education, Reed likely isn't a match. </p>

<p>I reccomend checking out the public university system in your state; it likely most closely resembles the High School experience.</p>

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<p>"I reccomend checking out the public university system in your state; it likely most closely resembles the High School experience."</p>

<p>Wow, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression. My son certainly doesn't have a problem working hard; the biggest problem he's had is that he can't find anything challenging <em>enough</em>. Even being given loads of extra work, his high school can't keep up with him. He taught himself Latin on the side, while studying advanced math a local college. I had <em>thought</em> that a summer at Stanford would slow him down, but he just "expected college to be harder than that". Yes, it was wonderful and he was incredibly engaged by the coursework, but he doesn't trust the A's he got, because he somehow expected the grading scale to be rougher. (And yes, I'm aware that Stanford's been accused of grade inflation in the past.) </p>

<p>My son has been tired of the high school experience almost since he started it, though it didn't become a problem until his school began demanding he stop doing outside work. Anyway, the problem is not that he can't stand challenge or doesn't want to work hard, or wants college to be like high school. Perhaps I wasn't clear about that. The problem is that the information about Reed is so constantly, "Oh, it's horrendously hard" that he's doubting his ability to handle that. When I asked friends, as I said, the one I know who attended Reed actually failed out and said that he felt that there was not enough support, that Reed was intensive and "sink-or-swim", such that students who weren't able to keep up with incredibly large work demands were cut off from support. </p>

<p>He doesn't "fear the prospect of working for his education". He fears that the crappy high school and lack of challenge hasn't prepared him for truly difficult work, because every time someone says, "Oh, but this is going to be really challenging" it hasn't been. </p>

<p>I guess asking wasn't a good option, since it seems the question was misunderstood, or maybe I'm not clear what I'm asking. I apologize, and will try and ask elsewhere, or at least when I can be more clear about my concern.</p>

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<p>If Reed accepts him, then Reed thinks he can do the work and also benefit from their program. In my response I focused only on what you said about your son's work habits: procrastination, not meeting deadlines. It's that style that can run an otherwise qualified student into trouble at Reed because, as I said, the work is unrelenting. Students do, of course have some down time, some fun and relaxation time, and a lot of opportunity to define their own research projects and hence work as hard as they want. At Reed, your son wouldn't ever lack for interesting and challenging things to do.</p>

<p>When he was in high school, my son also was bored with a lot of his classes. He found a lot of intellectual challenge in his EC's, however, in particular as a debater. That really helped to keep him attached to school. He almost never had homework, despite all his AP courses, because he did most of his "homework" in school (Spanish in his history class, chemistry in his Spanish class, etc.). In college (at UChicago), he did just fine (graduated with honors in economics) without becoming a slave to academics. I think he'd have figured out a way to keep some balance in his life even at Reed if he'd gone there. But he realized pretty quickly at Chicago that he had to keep up and to meet deadlines, because courses are much faster paced than in high school. You don't want to get into a hole by falling behind at a school like Chicago or Reed.</p>

<p>I think that if your son is truly smart, and he has a good sense of what he wants from college, he'll do just fine. He shouldn't be intimidated by any college, nor draw any particular conclusion from that friend of his who didn't succeed at Reed. He should, however, take a good look at Reed if he's interested in it, and not sell himself short nor throw away what could turn out to be one of his best choices for college.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your comments, Mackinaw -- you echo some of what I've been saying to him, about how schools don't accept people they don't think can do the work, etc. I also think it's cool to hear about your experiences with UChicago -- that's one of the other schools my son is really interested in. What's drawn him to both of those schools is the strong sense of classics, and "life of the mind", which is what really matters to him lately. It's a shame UChi can't have our great California weather, though. :)</p>

<p>I wish he had school EC's to interest him, but his school hasn't really had any -- they're not in keeping with the school's "academic mission". He was really involved with a quiz team he started, but then the school wouldn't let them have it a second year, because they felt it "glorified memorization of trivia". At this point, he participates in clubs and volunteers, but it's all unconnected from the high school.</p>

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<p>Here's another way of looking at it: Reed's acceptance rate is about 40%, the Ivies' more like 10% or less. This indicates (but doesn't prove) that on average, it takes higher numbers to get into Ivies, and so students with lower numbers are successful doing Reed's "horrendously hard" work!</p>

<p>Your son's SATs are in the top 25% of Reed's current freshman class, and his unweighted GPA is higher than the class's average weighted GPA. He has no objective basis for thinking he can't handle the work. He needs to realize this.</p>

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<p>TrinSF,
if you can stand one more! my d is also a freshman at reed. she studies a lot but she also plans on down time. like your son, she tends to procrastinate at times, but is learning to work smarter at reed. she was also bored in hs even though she took all honors and 5 AP classes. she graduated valedictorian (4.4/4.0)in a class of 400 from a nationally recognized high school. </p>

<p>when she got to reed, i think it was quite an adjustment--she told me she felt unprepared, as she felt she just breezed through high school without being really challenged. she was homesick in the fall and by finals, felt like transferring. the work load, as the other posters have noted, is unrelenting. we encouraged her to give it another semester, telling her she could transfer after that if she still wanted to. i asked her the other day if she was glad she stayed, and she assured me she was. i have seen an incredible growth in her, especially in her writing skills. she is procrastinating less. she has made some wonderful friends. she is finally being challenged.</p>

<p>she is finishing up studying for the reaktor (reedies' spelling of it). it is an all-year affair, much like taking an additional course. she has class once a week, homework, and lab time. about 30 kids started it in the fall. by break, there were 21 left. it was then whittled down to 15. she really enjoys it, but did complain on more than one occassion about the time involved (she had to return to reed 2 weeks early at semester break to put in a full week of study/lab time--the 2nd week was officially something called Paideia, where anyone--students, profs, staff, or even community members can teach a class funded by the college). Even during Paideia, more time was involved with the reaktor.<br>
they are getting ready now to be tested to receive their licenses.</p>

<p>there is one thing my daughter has not been at reed and that is bored. she has been tired, excited, frustrated, inspired, exhausted, homesick, exhillarated, cranky, stimulated, but not bored. there is just too much going on and too much mental stimulation for that to happen. there are clubs to join, plays to put on, trips to be taken (sponsored by the gray fund so that all students may participate, regardless of personal funds or lack of same). in otherwords, the upside definitely outweighs the downside of intense studies. most reedies study a lot, so it is the norm and no one is put down for doing so. </p>

<p>I would also encourage your son to visit while the students are there. most kids find out on their visit whether or not reed is for them. the administration is very friendly as are the students that your son will interact with. he will be assigned at least 2 classes to visit, and will be encouraged to participate. my d let it be known she was interested in the reaktor and was assigned to a host who was a senior operator. she got to visit it at night when she went to make her rounds. her host had to study for a while, but did not leave her alone, but rather introduced her to other students to spend time with. your s should not feel that a visit "...wouldn't give him enough "real" info to tell." if there is one thing reedies are is real. they will tell him like it is, warts and all. </p>

<p>if you would like anymore info that i can help you with, let me know. my d is a science major, so i could fill you in a little on that.</p>

<p>good luck!</p>

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<p>I got admitted to Reed this year. Unfortunately I'm an international student from Vietnam, a country with a totally different education system. Thus I'm worrying whether I would be able to keep up with other Reedies :( Can you guys tell me sth about intl students at Reed ? I'm considering Reed and Lafayette :)</p>

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<p>Thanks for the comment, metermaid! We were talking today, and both reminded of the experience Pat Conroy writes about in The Lords of Discipline, where even as an athletic student, the protagonist still has problems adjusting to life in military college, just like every other 1st year. :-) There's a part at the beginning where a school official is telling parents that their son will call and ask to come home, because it's hard, it's tough, but they should just say no, and let the student tough it out. </p>

<p>Anyway, we were talking about Reed as being like that for the mind, and instead of becoming "a whole man", one becomes "a whole mind". This entire analogy may not make much sense if you haven't read Lords of Discipline, but it let us talk about the idea of taking on a challenge, and how even if you're skilled, there can be a level of rigorousness that is challenging, scary, and really valuable to experience. So, a good thing.</p>

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<p>hlvietlong, you might put your question to this forum, where a lot of Reedies and prospies hang out.</p>

<p><a href="http://community.livejournal.com/reedlj/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://community.livejournal.com/reedlj/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>hlvietlong, </p>

<p>I don’t know a lot about international affairs at reed, but I do know that the admin will make every effort to see that you succeed. My d takes notes in her classes for int’l and LD classmates. She copies them once a week for the students. </p>

<p>Reed also offers tutors in most subjects. Some have set times—for example, math, chemistry, and biology. You merely go to the spot and seek out a tutor. There is no charge for this. I am sure that tutors could be arranged for any subject.</p>

<p>The best way to glean information from students is to send a message to the "reedwatcher"--a community on livejournal that is for and by reedies. It is a wealth of information. The students are very good about answering questions from ‘prospies’—they do ask that you identify yourself as such. <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/reedlj/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://community.livejournal.com/reedlj/&lt;/a> </p>

<p>there is also a community for the class of 2010:
<a href="http://community.livejournal.com/reed2010/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://community.livejournal.com/reed2010/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and the class of 2009:
<a href="http://community.livejournal.com/reed2009/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://community.livejournal.com/reed2009/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And this is a listing of help for int’l students on the reed website:
<a href="http://www.google.com/u/Reed?q=international+students&x=0&y=0%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.google.com/u/Reed?q=international+students&x=0&y=0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>International admission to Reed is very competitive. They want all their students to be successful – I don’t think reed would have admitted you if they didn’t think you will be successful. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for the useful links. The deadline is approaching so I'd better be hurried :D</p>

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<p>Hi,metermaid
Your daughter is working on the reaktor?I'm very curious about that.What's the workload like?Lots of work and labs?
I think I might try that at Reed. :-)</p>

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<p>regarzy,</p>

<p>yes, she just passed the first part of her exam for it. she still has to pass the lab part later this week. it was a lot of work--like taking a year-round class, but with no credit on your transcriopt. if you'd like, i can have her contact you later when exams are over...</p>