My son loved WL and it has been his first choice the entire year. We wanted him to apply RD because we did not want him to get to the Spring and realize that he had doubts.
The Accepted Student Day is insanely late and he felt that he needed to get to the school sooner. He is looking at WFU and Davidson in the South and Amherst and Bowdoin in the North. However, he really wants to go to school in the South.
He applied for a Johnson but was not selected (although congrats to all who were). When he returned he said that on more than one occasion, someone made a comment that WL “loves its ED candidates and Johnson Scholars.”
He learned that half the class is ED and he is beginning to feel that he will arrive a marked man or outcast. He is interested in the sciences but not really pre-med. He also said he learned that while WL accepts half the class ED, they have to work hard to fill the other half.
Finally, he indicated that when he went to the Admissions Office, even though they knew he was coming, he felt in the way and that he was bothering them.
He liked many of the kids he met and the classes he visited. The strange “vibe” he received has caused him to want to go back to Davidson and visit as well as Wake Forest at the end of the month.
Lastly, a parent told me today at a younger son’s soccer game that WL grades on a strict bell curve which hurts the kids when trying to get internships etc. Can this be true?
I felt the school was perfect for him and now it has dropped on his list.
The bell curve is absolutely not true. I don’t know of a single professor that does that.
Yes, there are a lot of ED kids, but there are also a lot of kids that only got in on the wait list. No one really cares how you got in.
I have plenty of friends who are non-premed science people, they love it.
IMO the vibe is key though. If you don’t get a good feeling from a school, then don’t go there.
The admissions office had to make accepted students day so late this year because of how our academic schedule worked out. We are in finals week now and then next week is Spring Break and they can’t have ASD during either of those weeks.
Your son has great choices, all with more similarities than differences, so the decision may well be down to the “vibe” he gets from his visits. And assuming all the financials work, that’s ok – but as the parent of a current student, I’m sorry to hear W&L has moved down the list.
Accepted Student Day is indeed much too late this year. I’m surprised he didn’t get a warm welcome from the Admissions Office but glad to hear he enjoyed the classes he attended and many of the kids he met.
I am quite certain students and faculty don’t know or care who was accepted ED, RD, or off the waitlist, and as the parent of a current senior (Johnson Scholar), I can tell you that other than a group photo during O-week, there is no special housing/registration/halo effect for Johnsons. D’s faculty advisors did not know she was a recipient of the scholarship. Most years, at least half of all applicants for admission also apply for the Johnson. After meeting with Johnson semifinalists during the competition the past three years, my D said that they are so strong, she does not believe she would have been selected.
You are correct that approximately half the class is accepted ED; 72 students were admitted from a waitlist of 827. That doesn’t strike me as evidence that W&L has to work really hard to fill the rest of the class. Here’s a link to the 2014-15 Common Data Set:
Frankly puzzled by the notion of a school-wide bell curve at W&L. @coppijr, can you help answer that? I wonder if there might be some misunderstanding. Is your source the parent of a current student?
We revisted W&L this past week, Sun-Mon, and as it is school vacation week in that region of the country we found the Admissions Office to be extremely busy. Our tour guide commented that we were on her largest tour ever and when we returned to the Admissions Office at the end of the day, the woman at the desk apologized for not having paid more attention to us earlier and not having had the opportunity to congratulate my D.
I can’t really speak to the perception of kids not applying ED being lesser than… My D did find that her two hosts had both applied ED and it was more like that is how much they loved the school, not that they were smarter or more qualified. My husband has a friend who’s son is a current student, freshman, at W&L and he was accepted off the waitlist having already put a deposit at a different selective LAC up North. They had only positive things to say about his experience and had no regrets about his decision. He was even in touch with my D to tell her all the great reasons to choose W&L.
I know you can’t go back and reverse an experience but I hope it all works out, all of those other schools are great choices too, we visited many of them as well.
Funny, we recently visited and had the same impression as the OP’s son. Our son also was not selected as a Johnson, but from the tour guide’s comments we felt the rejection was being underscored. That is in part because the tour guide (like tour guides at other colleges I should add) emphasized how liberal W&L was in giving scholarship money and for research, international opportunities, etc. But it appears that these opportunities are narrowly restricted to being need-based and merit-based.
The Johnson awards themselves also seem excessive for those relatively few who get the awards. In our situation, since we don’t qualify for need-based award (we scrimped and saved but are clearly not rich) a small merit-based award (say $5000 per year) would be greatly appreciated, and would cause us to give the green light for our son to enroll, yet are not available here. The school would rather award full tuition and room and board to a small cross-section, and gives nothing to anyone else (except for need-based). Hence we continue to look beyond W&L even though our son loves it.
Thank you to all the posters, each of whom make some excellent comments. As you can imagine, “which” school" is is a major topic of conversation.
He continues to read search and talk with others. Everything that has been said above I believe applies to us. While we don’t qualify for aid, he has received some nice merit awards at other schools. Not a full ride by any means but something that makes you appreciate it.
I think he feels more valued by the other school. Davidson is putting a hard press on. He mentioned that after he filed his WL application, other than Johnson updates, he heard nothing from WL. I explained that he needs to focus on acceptance. I think, however, this is fueling his belief that WL Admissions likes what they like and he was one of the last on the life boat. His concern is that this will somehow follow him through school. It does seem that WL is a little behind the times in reaching out to the kids. They give the impression of wanting to reach only those who want them. It has worked for them so I can’t criticize but it is having little effect. He did receive a post acceptance letter from the president talking about changes on campus which has no effect on an 18 year old. He was also invited to a local alumni event which he said he wanted to attend even though he is uncertain. His Davidson admin rep has called him twice.
It is killing me because I thought the school was perfect. He wanted his visit to convince him that he was wrong and unfortunately, the reception he received in the Admissions Office helped to convince him that he is an after thought. I appreciate a very busy small office having a lot to do, but I am beginning to accept that he is the victim of a perfect storm of unintentional signals, all very well went.
I think the ED Johnson is meant to show enthusiasm for the school where in his situation it is implying exclusivity and preference.
@firstborndad2015, you make an excellent point about the importance of the student’s feeling valued in his decision-making process. Back in the Dark Ages when I applied to school, the interest that a relatively unknown school showed in me (from local alum contact to what felt like the red carpet being rolled out during my campus visit) was what made me decide to attend, although I had other choices that were both less expensive and better known. I can understand your son’s feeling that the sum of the signals, no matter how unintentional, seems like less than a warm welcome. I don’t know if any of W&L’s admissions staff reads this forum, but I think they’d regret those signals mightily.
It’s worth noting, however, that once enrolled, students have no contact with admissions unless they do work-study there or volunteer as campus tour guides. The experience a student has at any school is going to be about the professors who become mentors, the friends he makes, the service he does – in short, it’s his to make of it what he will. Kids admitted to W&L are the kind of kids who would do well at any of the schools to which they are admitted; I sometimes think we work so hard to try to determine the very best fit that we forget about deciding to bloom where you’re planted – or wherever you choose to plant yourself
I’m glad your son plans to attend your local W&L alum event and hope he meets area alumni who can give him some additional perspectives. He (and you) have been very thoughtful and intentional in the search process, and those are qualities which will serve him well in his college career.
@firstborndad2015 – apparently there is an app called “Quad” in which students planning to attend different schools have conversations. From what I understand the W&L Class of 19 one is pretty active (according to my D.) and some kids have commented that the conversations they have had with their future classmates have helped them make their decisions.
What @BBDark said is a good way to put it. I’ve only had a few A’s at W&L and my GPA in HS was pretty much a 4.0. I don’t claim to be the world’s great student though, however I do have friends here that are very smart and/or very driven and they have very high GPA’s as a result.
tl;dr It’s not easy, but certainly not impossible to get good grades. IMO that’s how it should be.
(1) Have never heard anything about a bell curve. However, W&L is a challenging school, just like the others you mentioned. You do have to earn your grades.
(2) My son applied for a Johnson as well and did not even get an interview. It was very deflating because he had exceptional GPA and SAT. However, he still wound up attending.
(3) No one knows or cares how you got accepted, ED, RD, wait list or whether or not you are a Johnson. The success or failure of your academics rests squarely on your own shoulders (as it should be).
(4) W&L has a great career center and the best alumni network in the country (as rated by some organization who rates these things – you can look it up). On the contrary, I would think that attending W&L helps you get an internship. Just look at wlu.edu, and you will see all these kids that get fantastic internships. I would say way better than most schools.
(5) W&L is very generous with fin aid. You should apply and see if you get something. You never know. Also, there are numerous scholarship opportunities once you get to school. No one but you can decide what your budget is for college, but if your son really wants to go to W&L, and you can make it work, you are making a great decision (I’m biased of course)
(6) As far as the Admissions office goes, they are very busy these days. I know how a small impression can make a big difference. I can assure you that there was no intention of not showing your child “love for W&L”. In fact, you can just call them, and I am sure you can arrange for your son to speak to someone on the phone and they will be very happy to talk to him.
Thank you very much for your very thoughtful and helpful responses. We have discussed the matter (gently) and encouraged him to keep an open mid. He will be attending a weekend alumni event hoping to meet some recent alumi.
This is painful because I think the school is perfect for him. We have visited some excellent schools in the South such as Davidson, Furman and Wake but I can picture him at WL.
The issue, of course, as someone correctly noted, is that small impressions can leave a lasting impression. I am encouraging him to return for Accepted Student Day. While I realize the school did not have a choice, the late date really hurts.
Finally, I will note the WL Admin Office is getting smoked by its competitors. He is receiving personal emails and calls from counselors at other schools wanting to know what information they can provide to him. It leaves me as a lonely WL cheerleader.
My DS is an incoming Johnson scholar and I can assure you that we haven’t received any “special” treatment. As a matter of fact, out of all the schools that my DS was accepted to (Columbia, Vanderbilt, Davidson (Presidential Scholar), SMU (President’s Scholar=full ride), etc.) W&L is the one school that we see the least amount of attention from. Our mailbox gets bombarded with mail from Columbia and SMU along with phone calls and email but we only received an acceptance package with the Johnson offer and a standard Congratulations brochure along with a short letter and a free car sticker after my DS paid his enrollment deposit. We got an email from the scholarship coordinator offering to answer any questions my DS may have but that was all. I don’t consider their “lack” of attention as something to be upset about, I prefer it this way. Too much attention gets annoying and as the previous poster said, at this point of time the school speaks for itself. I am glad that my DS has made his decision on his own, without any pressure and glossy brochures.
