<p>Just wanted to say something about pre-engineering at a good LAC. The best way is to first get your 4-year degree in math or any science, then go to an engineering graduate school. Compared to a 3-2 program, in five years you can have a BA plus Masters, vs. a BA plus BS. The 3-2 graduates are NOT considered to have a professional engineering degree, whereas the BA+Masters graduates DO have a professional engineering degree.</p>
<p>On top of that, most students good enough to get into engineering graduate school will have great financial support via teaching or research assistantships. Therefore, you would pay for 4 years, not 5 years.</p>
<p>Most Rice students, if they do drink, tend to drink on campus.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how anyone would know this. Those were certainly college kids that I saw drinking in restaurants/bars over the weekend. They may have been the juniors/seniors/grad students with legal ID. However, we also know how easy it is for those who are under 21 to snag a fake ID for about $150 bucks. </p>
<p>However, I can see what you mean that the message is that it’s easier dealing with campus police.</p>
<p>If you’re talking about the “grad bar” on campus, that may be true. There is a bar on campus run by grad students for grad students. I’m not sure if they serve hard liquor though…maybe just beer/wine…not sure. </p>
<p>That said, it’s probably true for most campuses that those who are under 21 drink on campus in dorms or at parties, etc. </p>
<p>It just seems odd that Williams and Carleton both granted him around 14k, with williams even giving him a book grant for four years and Rice gave him zero.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s odd, but we’ve seen people post $20k swings with CSS Profile. Does anyone know if Williams and Carleton practice a bit of “preferential packaging”? (giving a bit more aid to those they really, really want?)</p>
<p>I can see what you mean about the house system, but it just seems to me that Williams and Carleton would also offer a close-knit feel from what others have posted…just maybe not in the same exact way as Rice. </p>
<p>That said…if your son takes out a student loan each year for $5500 and contributes - say - $4k per year from a summer job, can you make it work? If he wants this, then he should be willing to put some skin in it.</p>
<p>Excellent point and one that makes it again more difficult to say no to Williams’ or Carleton’s financial aid package. </p>
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<p>I’m not sure. But, I have heard those 2 schools mentioned as giving better aid than other schools that offer 100% need based aid and the differences the OP mentions are not unusual. Personal experience is that Williams was better than one and significantly better than most other peer and safety LAC’s D was admitted to (she did not apply to any universities other than our in-state flagship as a financial and academic safety).</p>
<p>I’m not pushing science-engineering 3-2 programs, but …</p>
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<p>in what sense are you using the phrase “professional engineering degree”? I’m most familiar with professional licensure in Texas, and its board requires either an ABET-accredited bachelor’s degree or a “board-approved combination” of a bachelor’s degree in mathematical, physical, or engineering science and a graduate degree in engineering from a university with an ABET-accredited undergraduate program in the same discipline to sit for the PE exam. Since the kid from the 3-2 program would have an ABET-accredited bachelor’s degree, there’s no difference under the law for professional licensure.</p>
Re: post # 42: Rice is a wet campus and the drinking policies for on-campus vs off campus use/consumption is very different. Trust me, Rice students know this. If you want more direct info, I am sure anyone on the Rice forum can oblige. I can ask my DS, but he graduated a few years ago.</p>
<p>To clarify the above, its not really the drinking policies that are different on/off campus, its the potential consequences of drinking on/of campus.</p>
<p>mom90: My son is definitely heading off to Carleton to admitted student days. I keep hearing wonderful things about that school and my son thought it might be a better social fit compared to Williams.</p>
<p>For the engineers out there, if he chooses to attend Williams or Carleton and wait to decide on engineering, if he goes to a phd program, would that actually harm him in the workforce since his bachelors will not be in engineering? </p>
<p>Why oh why can’t I be 18 again and enjoying these choices! I would have LOVED the fun of rice. I didn’t get this opportunity though as a first generation college student my choices were University of Colorado at Boulder or Colorado State University. This is probably why I am so neurotic about this now… :)</p>
<p>In the workforce, it absolutely won’t matter what his BS was in. The two people I’m thinking of had a BS in Physics and it doesn’t matter. Thinking more about what I wrote earlier, you have to make some careful course selections to not lose time going BS science to Masters Eng’g. In the worst case, one might have to take a couple of extra courses but I don’t think it’s that hard to avoid. Physics to either EE or MechE is pretty simple to plan, likewise Chemistry to Chem E. Not sure all combinations work equally well. But once it’s done, nobody cares what major or school the bachelor’s degree came from.</p>
<p>About the entry system at Williams: the entry is a logical grouping, and the physical layout of an entry is different from one dorm to another. In my daughter’s freshman dorm, each floor had four hallways laid out in an “X” pattern, with about 8 rooms in each wing. An entry consisted of two of the four wings. At the center of the X was a living room, sitting room, and small kitchen. So people from two entries would meet each other in these common areas.</p>
<p>Most of the rooms in this particular dorm were singles so that meant about 18 students in an entry, I think. Other dorms have mostly double rooms, but they adjust the numbers so an entry size stays about the same. Each entry has a male and female junior who lives with them and acts as an advisor. My D is still friends with people from her entry, and also with her junior assistants.</p>
<p>Another way freshmen meet at Williams is through their orientation activity. (I think many liberal arts colleges do this; probably Carleton does too.) The students who chose outdoor orientation activities are organized into small “WOOLF” packs. This provides another way of getting to know people that’s distinct from the entry system.</p>
<p>No harm at all. The typical engineering department will evaluate his undergraduate transcript and identify any “deficiencies” in his preparation. Deficiencies are sometimes addressed by requiring the missed undergraduate courses as part of the graduate degree program, sometimes accounted for in the graduate program, and sometimes not really addressed at all. Most typical for students coming from a physical science background is the engineering design sequence because it’s what differentiates the physical sciences from most of the engineering disciplines.</p>
<p>Having taken his thermodynamics class from a physics or chemistry department instead of a mechanical engineering department, he won’t share with his classmates the intimate familiarity with the properties of steam that usually comes with such [lame humor warning]. Calculus through multivariable and ordinary differential equations is assumed for engineering, but carefully chosen classes beyond that may put him at an advantage relative to his peers. Similarly, some physics and chemistry classes might address topics that his classmates will be seeing for the first time in grad school.</p>
<p>And no, undergraduate institution won’t matter to someone with a graduate degree.</p>
<p>OP, is your son an only child? If you are only putting one child through college, then maybe the extra for Rice is worth it if he feels comfortable there and likes it AFTER looking at his two other schools.</p>
<p>The context is engineering. My opinion is based on my own 20+ year experience as a graduate-degreed engineer as well as paraphrasing a recent conversation with a Director of a Research Institute who hires graduate-degreed engineers.</p>
<p>Well, Williams expects our family to pay 36,809 with a gap of 17,853 which they have met with a work study, book grant, stafford (4k), and a williams tuition grant (11,253).</p>
<p>Rice says that we should pay the 47k outright.</p>
<p>I am sad to say that while my son did love Rice, unless our financial appeal comes through, it is off the table. Fantastic school, expecially for an introvert! who could use a little more social connectedness but we really cannot afford the gap and we don’t want to saddle him with larger debt than 16k at the end.</p>
<p>I had always heard that Rice was very generous and that Williams is basically “need-based aid” but our EFC is 50k and somehow Williams just has a much much better offer.</p>
<p>I am picking up my son from admitted student days later today (from williams) God I hope it went well!!</p>
<p>I’m sorry your son’s first pick did not come up with the money. I know kids who are at Rice with schools like Williams that were their first choices that didn’t pan out financially. It really can vary. </p>
<p>But, Williams is a great school, one of the best, so there isn’t a lot of “settling” here. I hope he perks up about the choice.</p>
<p>Shelldemeo-
Are you saying that your FAFSA EFC is $50K, but Williams only wants slightly less than $37K from your family? And the package includes Federal Work/Study and Federal Stafford loans? (Or did Williams offer a non-work/study job and an institutional loan?)
From what I’ve read (and I’ve read the details of the Presidents 568 Group policies), this seems pretty unusual, since it is something that the Fed Dept of Ed. frowns upon.</p>
<p>I know a number of kids who got varying financial aid amounts hat differed as widely as $20K on PROFILEs alone, never mind FAFSA. You can get a high FAFSA EFC and a lower PROFILE, in a number of situations like having other kids in private schools, consideration for special costs and situations that FAFSA will not take into account. Anyone can get Stafford, with need or not. The work study and the subsidized part is where the need comes into play.</p>
<p>MomCat, the poster had said in post #1 that her EFC was 40k, and that all 3 schools had both Fafsa and CSS. $5500 in Sub and Unsub Fed loans are available to all, are they not?</p>
<p>All students who file the FAFSA can get a stafford loan. Op did not say her son was getting work study. He is most likely getting a work study position from the Williams (which is probably not federal work study)</p>