Rice fails to equal williams and Carleton on demonstrated need

Paying for College
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<p>GTAlum-- In my state, contributions to 529 are made with after-tax dollars, so I’m not sure what you mean by “Contributions to 529 plans are taxed.”</p>

<p>You might have a point about the interest/dividends though.</p>

<p>We also get state income tax credit for our contributions and I’m trying to figure the math of contributing to 529/spending 529/1040 and state return credits. Oy!</p>

<p>I don’t use a tax program; we have an accountant and I’ve been able to get satisfying answers to my questions.</p>

<p>mom4college–THANKS SO MUCH for the link to the IRS. Just checked it. It pretty much answered all my questions.</p>

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<p>upstate mom - yes, I meant contributions are made with after tax dollars. </p>

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<p>I would be willing to pay a little extra for a first choice school but, given the quality of education at Williams, the extra expense for name recognition seems a bit superficial. For example, our state flagship, UNC, is well-known throughout the world, and I daresay, is better known than Rice. But is it worth paying extra for over and elite LAC education? Of course, it depends on what kind of education and atmosphere the student wants.</p>

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<p>calmom: thank you for that analysis. My husband’s salary will be around 20k less next year. I do think that I should be thinking about the next four years. Not to make things more confusing but Rice offered 2k in subsidized loan and the rest in unsub. </p>

<p>I think I was “dazzled” by the size of the grant and the free books offer. I remember how expensive that can be. I also think I should investigate how the two schools handle the efc when a second child goes to college which will be my situation in two more years.</p>

<p>I know that Rice mentioned that the EFC was NOT cut in half but instead Rice divides the EFC 60/40 with Rice getting 60% of the efc. Is that common practice?</p>

<p>That is odd the government comes up with an amount of money they say we should be able to afford and then when two jump in the game it goes up twenty percent?</p>

<p>It is funny but up here in the east, Williams is a definite name and Rice is an eyebrow raise or worse a blank stare.</p>

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<p>The gov’t did not come up with an amount of money you can afford. The EFC means no such thing. It determines if you are eligible for Federal aid (Pell Grant, etc). That is it. </p>

<p>Common misconception. They really need to rename that figure.</p>

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<p>The fact of the matter is that it really doesn’t matter in the end how generous a school is, how lousy their financial aid is, except how it pertains to your student. I have said many times that I have seen families get the best deal from NYU, and they do not meet 100% of need and gap all of the time. But they do fund some students very well. If you are one of the lucky ones, good for you. Vanderbilt is considered one of the most generous schools in terms of financial aid, but I know families disgruntled by packages they get or didn’t get from them. My neighbor got aid from Colgate for their daughter and not a dime from Vanderbilt. I’ve seen huge differences in amounts even among schools that are insist that they use the exact same methodology. </p>

<p>So if you want/need aid, casting a wide net can get you varied results, sometimes surprising ones. You also have to go where the offers are if you want that money. Sure, you can try to get get your aid application reviewed. You can ask for more merit money. I really think any and everyone who is in such a situation should go through an analysis and the reasoning with the financial aid office that gives what is considered a shortfall. It is good to understand how the number was calculated, maybe there is a mistake, maybe something can be reconsidered, maybe more money can be gotten. Just don’t expect it. It can really hurt to hang your hopes on College A coming up with the money College B offered. Better you start looking at those colleges you can afford. I look at such situations as a waitlist thing. Give it a try, but be looking forward to what is in hand.</p>

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I think that’s the standard CSS Profile methodology. Keep in mind that CSS Profile is a private software-based system sold to colleges that gives them the ability to change just about any part of the formula. So they can do anything they want.</p>

<p>My d’s college looked at actual COA for the sibling. I don’t know what would have happened if my son’s COA had been equivalent to my d’s – that is, whether they would have gone 50/50 or 60/40 or what. At the time my son was in a public school with a COA of around $15K, tuition around $3500 – and my d’s private college just increased her grant by roughly the amount of my son’s tuition. I didn’t really think much of it at the time because I wasn’t actually paying for my son (he was paying his own way).</p>

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<p>The government only is involved with EFC (FAFSA) – and the parent’s share of that is always divided based on the number of kids in college. Keep in mind that FAFSA EFC is calculated by student share + parent share. The year that my d.'s college increased her grant based on my son’s tuition, my son did not qualify for any financial aid because his EFC was higher than the tuition cost – not from my part, but from his own- - as he had been working full time & saving money before returning to school, which drove up his EFC.</p>

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<p>Just to somewhat show what I think? is preferential packaging?</p>

<p>Case Western’s award is so so much better which includes:</p>

<p>total cost of attendance: 54583</p>

<p>financial aid award: Michelson/morley scholarship 17,500
case grant: 7,300
aid: 24,800k!!</p>

<p>Now how would I get that with an efc around 40?? I would have assumed that the michelson scholarship was it… The one thing I have learned from this process is that all colleges are different.</p>

<p>Grinnell, on the other hand, had around a 10k trustee scholarship leaving 40k to pay and that was what they expected him to pay. </p>

<p>If only Case Western had the lure of Rice…</p>

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<p>The Michelson-Morley scholarship is a merit award, not need-based.</p>

<p>What probably happened is that Case decided to award the $7300 need-based grant, and then tacked the merit award on top of that. Most schools would take away the need based grant if a merit award was more, but maybe Case has a different policy. Or maybe the math is a little more complicated than I laid out. For example, maybe they calculate your “resources” (college-determined EFC) as being $30K, and ordinarily they would have given your son a package consisting of grant + work study + loans, but because he earned the Michelson-Morley award, they are allowing the award to replace the loans/work.</p>

<p>But your are making the same mistake again by looking at the combined grant figure. You have to look at the bottom line – which in this case is $30,000. Definitely the best offer you have shared – but you need to wrap your brain around this concept:</p>

<p>If school A has a COA of $55K and school B has a COA of $45K – and school A gives $10K more in grant or scholarship money than school B… that extra $10K doesn’t matter. It’s no different than if you go to buy a pair of shoes and one pair costs $27 and the other pair costs $45 but is marked 40% off. You may feel like the 2nd pair is a better quality shoe – or maybe you just believe that it must be better quality because it was originally marked higher – but you are paying the same in either case. </p>

<p>Now I can see that Case Western has been far more generous-- but I am saying that the <em>net value</em> of their offer as compared to Rice is $15,800 (or $14,300 if you factor in the $1500 Rice has now offered). Still nothing to sneeze at… but again… look at the bottom line, not how much free money you are being “given”. No matter what they call it, it is a discount – you will never see a dime of that money, all that will happen is that your tuition bill will be lower at Case Western than it would be at Williams or Rice.</p>

<p>Case Western is a good school. Don’t dismiss the offer just because it hasn’t been your son’s top choice.</p>

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<p>thanks again calmom. I called Case and they said they have my EFC at 42k. They gave him the Morley and then an additional Case grant due mainly to “academic strength.” Apparently the grant does not have anything to do with need. </p>

<p>I also have a call into University of Rochester because they never sent out the financial award letter to see how he was packaged there…(he got a 15k grant there) then it is out for pizza tonight and family discussions!! Fun fun.</p>

<p>thanks again.</p>

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<p>I forgot to mention that the financial aid counselor said they do not use the css but have their own methodology that they use on top of the fafsa so, in my son’s case, that was a good thing apparently.</p>

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<p>OK, well it look like that is merit money in any case. Ask about whether both are renewable for all 4 years; what your son has to do to keep the awards (such as GPA maintained); and whether the merit money would be increased proportionally if tuition goes up. Mickelson-Morley is given to STEM students – so you might want to also find out whether he needs to stay in a science/math/engineering major to keep that award.</p>

<p>Oh, and congratulations! You should be very proud of your son and he must have very impressive academic credentials to qualify for that sort of award!</p>

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<p>Thanks. I feel for all families going through this at this time… I hope my thread and my erroneous assumptions, etc. can help others who have a hard time “getting it.” Clearly I am not winning these scholarships.</p>

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<p>Well, your son is! My only point is that you have to lay the emotions aside and look at hard numbers – and then make some very tough decisions. You are going to have to figure out what the maximum you can pay is, let your son know – let him look at comparative figure and also look at some real figure as to what loans will mean for him over the long run – and then he is probably going to have to make some choices, that may end up being different than what you thought at the beginning. </p>

<p>The one thing I am confident is that your son is very smart and capable, and probably will be able to make a good choice for himself.</p>

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<p>Dear OP, I know what I would tell Rice, If you need help with that I would be more than happy, How about start out, why dont you take your Rice Degree and Sh— – – ---- —</p>

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<p>Calmom is absolutely right. It’s the bottom line cost without including workstudy/loans that counts. You can get the loans and the jobs on your own.</p>

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<p>1stcolldad: I don’t think saying that would help me with the Rice financial aid appeal… Thanks for the advice though… :)</p>

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<p>You might ask Rice, nicely, whether it is too late for consideration of merit awards and let them know about the Case Western offer. CW is not really a “peer” school with Rice, so they are not going to throw a lot of merit money your son’w way or try to match the offer – but it can’t hurt to ask. I believe from your posts that your son would honestly want to attend Rice above all others if there was a way that it was affordable – so I don’t think that there is anything wrong in letting the school know that.</p>

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<p>Calmom: Believe me, I think they know. It is such a bummer that he received merit aid from case, lafayette, Grinnell, University of Rochester, etc. but nada from Rice. After all of the other financial award letters came in, and I saw how Williams and Carleton had our family efc around 38k, it was very depressing when Rice came in as an efc of 47k.</p>

<p>I was just on the phone again with Rice. They did a review and gave him 1500 dollars, a 2k subsidized. I spoke to them about work on campus, etc. We went over everything again and told her that while my son wants to go to Rice above all others, it is still about 4k more than williams without travel and books. I have to tell you, Williams is enough of a stretch. An additional 4k or more, along with them saying we can afford 47k while Williams says we can afford 36k is really leaning ME to Williams. </p>

<p>I had called Rice to see if they have the non-interest payment plan (spread over ten months) like Williams has. They have a four payment plan, with a small interest fee (1.75%). The payments are due in August, September, October, and November. Jesus, I have to come up with all of that THEN??</p>

<p>In many ways I feel that we are swimming upstream for Rice. </p>

<p>I just contacted Williams because I want to CONFIRM that their figures are right and that this is a FINAL award letter because I am nervous that there is something wrong, I will make my son say goodbye to Rice, and then a month after we sign on the dotted line we will get a letter from Williams saying “whoops. You owe more.”</p>

<p>That would be a drag.</p>

<p>I think we will send one more letter out requesting merit aid but, I think when the application leaves admission, and goes to financial aid, that option is not happening.</p>

<p>My son is awesome. Why can’t they see that! :)</p>

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<p>I like Williams over Rice and most folks I know agree. The fight is usually the other way around. But life never makes it easy, does it? Congratulations on all of his wonderful choices, and I wish things had worked out more to your son’s personal liking. It would have made this all a perfect storm of the season, but then the gremlins won’t get their fun watching us scuttle, haggle and tear our hair out.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse: Damn those gremlins.</p>