Rice University: Why It's Better than Harvard/Stanford

College Search & Selection
61

<p>Shrek, I see you've been adding to your post after it has already been responded to. The endowment issue is addressed, Rice has a higher endowment-per-student, by far, than any of the Ivies outside of HYP. The "lesser five" can't begin to touch Rice in that regard. Rice also has a slightly higher endowment-per-student than Stanford and MIT.</p>

<p>Rice students have fantastic internship opportunities. You mentioned the financials, traditionally associated with New York. Citigroup (it's not Citibank that you meant to mention), Morgan Stanley, Merill Lynch, and Goldman Sachs all have Houston investment banking branches. There is less competition for internships in Houston because Rice is the only school of its caliber in the area. After interning in Houston, it enables you to get a full-time offer in any city where these companies do business.</p>

<p>As far as applying to graduate school, I know graduate students at every major university you can think of. I am very good friends with current students at both Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School, as well as various graduate departments of Stanford and Princeton. I think I know what I'm talking about when I say that you are at a DISadvantage applying to Harvard graduate programs with a Harvard undergrad degree. The Rice grad adds diversity, the Harvard grad does not. With the same test scores and grades, the Rice grad wins.</p>

<p>I myself have nearly perfect standardized test scores, and believe that I could get into Rice, Harvard, or Stanford. I have not yet applied, but I surely know the ins and outs of applying to graduate programs. My purpose in coming here is to make sure future generations of students don't make the same mistake that I did: not hearing about Rice University in time to go there for undergrad, because I feel it is the best university on the planet.</p>

62

<p>Thats cool. I'm National Merit semi and look how stupid I am. I actually did my reasearch and found (what I thought as a great school) Williams which I'll be attending in the fall =). I agree with a lot of your other posts breeze, about ivy's (I looked at past posts) but Rice is different than them. It offers a great undergrad program (and yes the rice students are MUCH happier than harvard students) but it doesn't have the grade inflation that HS offers. It is hard to get an A at Rice (so says many of my friends that go there and alums) and while they may learn the material better than HS students their GpAs aren't as high and thats is weighed heavily by grad schools. Its proven that HYPS send more students to top grads than most other schools (Rice included). All I was saying is that if undergrad education (meaning personal interaction with profs and such) is important to you and you are willing to work hard, then Rice is for you. Otherwise HS is slightly better.
P.S.: The misleading info is their financial aid information. Many times parents and kids see the high giving rate and think Rice is giving money to all the percentages Rice provides (thats one of their selling points to students their interested in). Actually, as the financial aid people told us, all the percentages include kids getting scholarships from say Coca Cola (I hope I get it), or whatever OUTSIDe scholarships they have. thats it. Btw, why do we even have to say whos better? It is up to the person to choose so everyone here's some advice: ask people who go there from all schools you want to go to about the school and visit. Your always the best judge.</p>

63

<p>Every financial aid department uses that practice. They only award aid AFTER all other scholarships have been awarded at every university.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Its proven that HYPS send more students to top grads than most other schools (Rice included).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is false. The Wall Street Journal survey you're talking about used only professional schools (law, business, medical). Rice is also heavily into engineering and research, and those weren't taken into account.</p>

<p>As far as the grades, that is true of any engineering school (MIT, Cornell, Caltech). But it is not harder to get A's in Rice's liberal arts programs than it is in Yale's. (Harvard does have excessive inflation even relative to Yale and Stanford, I'll give you that.) I do agree that Rice students tend to learn the material better because of the fairly intense environment.</p>

<p>As far as the best school for all people, you're right... there is none. But this thread is about what I value in a college and what I have found in Rice. The worst that can happen is that people see the title and take the time to learn something about R and why at least one educated collegiate consumer believes it is better than S and H.</p>

64

<p>Do you think Rice is comparable to UChicago, because that's a school i thought of when you said both LAC and Research University</p>

65

<p>
[quote]
I myself have nearly perfect standardized test scores, and believe that I could get into Rice, Harvard, or Stanford.

[/quote]

How do you define nearly perfect? Isn't that up to the individual school?</p>

66

<p>Amused - yes, I do think Chicago is one of the closest experiences to Rice. That is a also a research-intensive environment with a low student-faculty ratio.</p>

<p>Mensa - 99th percentile among graduate school hopefuls, but not a perfect score.</p>

67

<p>(One thing about Chicago though is that it isn't as undergrad-focused as Rice is, and doesn't have the same breadth of research because it doesn't have much in the way of science and engineering.)</p>

68

<p>I went to law school at Chicago and my D is at Rice. The schools both have strong academics, of course, but the environments are VERY different. The expression "where fun goes to die" used to describe Chicago is not that far off. It is a wonderful place for a very special type of student. Rice kids have WAY too much fun. The neighborhood around Rice is better, of course. The undergrads at Rice are much more "normal" than those at Chicago. I am not slamming Chicago- I love the place- but it is VERY different from Rice.</p>

69

<p>The 529 NMS at Rice is an inflated statistic because 392 of them are institutionally sponsored. Princeton doesn't pay the tab for their NMS's. </p>

<p>Here, in order, are the top 25 schools in attracting "true" (ie, non-institutionally-sponsored) National Merit Scholars for 2003: (courtesy NMS Corporation)</p>

<p>Harvard: 378</p>

<p>Yale: 228</p>

<p>Stanford: 217</p>

<p>Princeton: 165</p>

<p>MIT: 151</p>

<p>Duke: 103</p>

<p>Penn: 101</p>

<p>Rice: 71</p>

<p>UC Berkeley: 67</p>

<p>U Texas: 57</p>

<p>Caltech: 50</p>

<p>Brown: 47</p>

<p>Columbia: 47</p>

<p>Dartmouth: 45</p>

<p>Notre Dame: 44</p>

<p>U Florida: 39</p>

<p>Cornell: 38</p>

<p>Georgetown: 37</p>

<p>WUStL: 37</p>

<p>U Chicago: 34</p>

<p>UVa: 33</p>

<p>UI-UC: 33</p>

<p>UCLA: 31</p>

70

<p>I have trouble understanding who cares how many NMSs there are at a school. That just doesn't make it very high on my list of important criteria. To be a NMS basically means you do well on a standardized test. That doesn't tell much about your future classmates.</p>

71

<p>It tells you they're smart, if that's what you're after... Standardized tests are terrible measures of intelligence and all, but what else does a prospective student have to go by?</p>

72

<p>Stanfreud, institutional sponsorship does not strip someone of their status as a National Merit Scholar. What were you thinking? Even the misguided list you provided puts Rice near the top on a percentage basis. You just gave the raw numbers. Even if you had put it in its proper context, it's misleading to say that scholars who get money don't count as scholars anymore.</p>

<p>Rice tuition is fairer than Harvard and Stanford in the first place... if Stanford weren't so bent on milking its students for every penny it can, maybe it would attract more of these students.</p>

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<p>MomofWildChild, standardized testing is only a portion of the NMS competition. It does however mean that these students had a high score... but community service and the like are also considered. Someone who is NMS is not necessarily smarter than someone who isn't... but schools with a very high percentage of them like Rice and Harvard (not so much Princeton and Stanford) does indicate to some extent the quality of the student body. If someone gets into Rice or Harvard without NMS, it just means the rest of their application was that much stronger.</p>

74

<p>Why is an institutionally sponsored National Merit finalist any less valid than a corporate sponsored National Merit finalist? The scores are no different. Colleges give out scholarships of all shapes and sizes. If a school chooses to use some of its funds to acknowledge a bright student, a talented athlete, or a student in need, why should it matter?</p>

75

<p>breeze, you don't like duke very much. that's fine; I happen to disagree, but it's your right. But your arrogance is pretty annoying, as are your arguments.</p>

<p>"Duke is probably the most overhyped school south of the Ivy League."
People like Duke. There is a reason. It's a great school. Why are you trying to hype up Rice right now? That's what you're doing! You didn't simply make empirical observations about why Rice is a good school, which it is, but you try to make this big controversy saying it's better than Stanford and Harvard and Duke. Why the HYPE? It seems to me a bit hypocritical.</p>

<p>"And PLENTY of open thinkers (moreso than say Princeton, I would venture)"
Where the hell did this come from? It's these types of arguments that just leave me wondering how desperate you are to validate your own personal choice in grad school. THIS IS UNPROVABLE. You've neither attended Princeton nor Rice, you have no idea what you're talking about.</p>

<p>Another thing; you never justify how Rice is "more" of a research institution than Duke. Amused asks you to justify this: "Duke is more of a research institution than at least 75% of the Ivy League, but it can't compete with Rice in this category" and you come up with this: "75% = 6 of 8." OK um, I don't think that's what he was asking for. We all passed 6th grade math. Where are the numbers that say Rice is somehow better?
Additionally, you post this: "Every school but Harvard and Cornell in the Ivy League does not even try to give the impression they conduct serious research in much of anything. Duke does try to give the impression, but hasn't come up with much."
Um... what? What is this based on? I'll tell you what: prejudice. You don't like Duke so you invent stuff. Duke DOES conduct research and undergrads DO get involved, trust me, I actually KNOW. Where's your proof that Rice students do? You don't even go to the school.</p>

<p>"Speaking of medical, Rice faculty helped develop the first artificial hearts, and the largest medical complex in the world is next to the Rice campus."
and
"That's great for their medical school students. Doesn't affect undergrads much though, does it."
You're trying to straddle the line and you don't pull it off. What does the largest medical complex in the world have to do with undergraduate research? I thought you said medical school stuff only benifits medical students?? Also, funding from the government or whatever benifits DEPARTMENTS and undergraduates often take advantage, at Duke at least. Money doesn't go straight to grad students. Do graduate students get most of the benifit? Of course... but it's the same at Rice. (also, Duke has one of the best hospitals in the world right ON campus.)</p>

<p>Anyways, whatever</p>

76

<p>Standardized testing is the main component. Only a relatively small percentage of semifinalists don't make finalist. You have to really mess up your grades or your SATs to not make finalist.<br>
My D is a soph at Rice and was not a semifinalist. None of her roommates were either and I don't think her bf was one. They are all bright, impressive kids. In our college search and in the current search with S, it just isn't something we focus on and not a criteria S's school suggests considering.
I am not making light of the accomplishment of achieving NMS status, it's just sort of a "who cares" thing wrt choosing among the top colleges.</p>

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<p>My s. was a national merit finalist, and had lots of $$$ thrown at him from lots of schools. It became like monopoly money after a while. But he chose Rice becuse it is a perfect fit for him. His wonderful National Merit Scholarship is a whopping $750/yr. I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, but he didn't choose Rice for the scholarship $, he chose Rice for Rice.</p>

78

<p>What is a god way to get funding for Rice? Also, i think my son is a national merit qualifier, but did not become a finalist, does that help with scholarships????</p>

79

<p>Rice, when accepting students, is too much number oriented. It is a great college, but many Texas high school students compare it to UT honors - Plan II / UT BME - honors, not Duke, Stanford, or Harvard.</p>

80

<p>ay_caramba, I can tell that you feel threatened in your choice of Duke. Plenty of smart people go to Duke... I'm not calling you stupid for choosing Duke, so please don't take it so personally.</p>

<p>To address your many points.. (maybe you should have spread it out in different posts)...</p>

<p>Duke, like WUStl, is overhyped IMO because of its rise in the US News rankings after the rankings came out. Duke wasn't in the top 12 of the original US News ranking, but as soon as the ranking started becoming a bigger deal, Duke started doing everything it could to rise in the rankings. It worked, just as it worked again for WUStl later.</p>

<p>I am glad to "hype" Rice if spreading the word to people who might otherwise never even hear of it means "hype". Based on an intelligent discussion of both programs, it is hard to come to a conclusion that Duke is equal to Rice. I welcome that discussion.</p>

<p>You want "numbers" to say that Rice conducts more research than Duke, or that undergrads participate in more research. Just look at everything at Rice, the Space Institute, the Quantum Institute, the Nanoscale Technology institute, the Biological and Environmental Nanotechnology Institute, the Computer and Information Technology Institute. I've been to Duke many times, and am still waiting for all of these institutes and think tanks. I do realize that what stops Duke from conducting this type of research is its lack of a larger engineering program. It's largely a Pre-Med school. That's fine.</p>

<p>Your largest paragraph was mostly jibberish. What can I respond to? The research conducted at Dartmouth and Brown? Tell me when you find any. You want proof that Rice students get involved with research? Ask anyone who has ever been within 100 miles of the campus. You obviously, have not been to Rice and do not know anyone there. (Again, I've been to Duke plenty!)</p>

<p>In your final paragraph, you try to say that Rice medical research happens at the medical school. The artificial heart was largely developed by Rice researchers on the main campus, not at a medical school. You point to the Duke medical school being "ON campus" yet it is further away from the center of campus than the Texas Medical Center is from the center of Rice. (Duke has a nice campus, but I'll be darned if it isn't massively large and terribly spread out.)</p>