Rice vs. Carleton vs. Haverford vs. Middlebury

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello!</p>

<p>I was lucky enough to be accepted by a lot of my favorite schools, but, looking at it another way, I now have to make a choice between a lot of my favorite schools.</p>

<p>I don't have a major decided, but I am interested in physics, computer science and math.</p>

<p>Rice, Carleton and Haverford were three of my top four schools (the other being Pomona) and, originally, I had my decision down to those three. My college advisor at school said I should look at Middlebury, and I applied there without much thought, but the more I look at it, the more I like it...</p>

<p>I know that isn't much information, so here are briefly my thoughts about these schools...</p>

<p>Rice:
Pros - Houston, great science, residential colleges
Cons - Too big?</p>

<p>Carleton:
Pros - Great science, nice people, club ice hockey :P
Cons - Nothing I can really think of, specifically</p>

<p>Haverford:
Pros - Great science, interesting/nice people, great location, other colleges around it
Cons - too small? honor code too constricting?</p>

<p>Middlebury:
Pros - Neat location, good science, international flavor, Ice hockey
Cons - I am not a huge skiing fan, sciences maybe not as strong as my other choices, I'm not very good at foreign languages</p>

<p>I am hoping to visit each campus before the decision deadline, but I am not 100% sure I can make it to middlebury.</p>

<p>If you have any insights or information you think could help me, it would be much appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

<p>Well…Middlebury is hands down the most beautiful college I’ve ever visited - breathtaking. But at the same time, its very isolated. So is Carleton. Whereas the other two are closer to cities. Depending on your preferences, that can have a pretty big impact on your experience</p>

3

<p>Agree with pandorahearts about Middlebury, very isolated but one of the prettiest settings for a college - anywhere. Great hiking, skiing, outdoors activities surround the town.</p>

<p>Carleton is a very different place. The town of Northfield has about 20,000 people, many of whom commute to Minneapolis-St. Paul about 45 minutes away. With about 1,000 acres of campus and arboretum, Carleton also offers a beautiful, buccolic setting with relatively easy city access.</p>

<p>Rice, with about 3200 undergrads (though growing), is obviously larger than the LACs you’re considering but still about as small as a university gets. It’s not “closer” to a city as pandorahearts argues, it’s very much in a city. Houston is all around with the largest medical complex in the country looming across the street along with something like 10,000 parking spots. Campus feels somewhat protected from the concrete (“hedges”) and the residential colleges help make the place feel smaller.</p>

<p>Haverford is a true suburban location with the both the advantages and disadvantages that encompasses. Too small at 1300 students? Can’t answer this for you. </p>

<p>For your academic interests in physics along with CS/math, probably best served by Carleton or Rice. But unless you’re entering with lots and lots of advanced college work, all can provide quality opportunities.</p>

4

<p>My unsupported impression is that Haverford science is strongest in bio and chem, whereas Carleton really excels in physics. Swarthmore physics is really strong, but the Tri-Co consortium is weaker than Bi-Co. Midd is known for environmental science, but their new science center is just gorgeous. Haverford really, really values the Honor Code, so be sure to understand it thoroughly. Haverford also has an ice hockey club, which may or may not be the same thing as club ice hockey.</p>

<p>Agreed on geographic isolation of Carleton and Middlebury (which was exactly what I wanted, but not most people’s perfect cup of tea). Midd’s campus is very “shiny” (new), spread-out, and Vermont-y. The stars are beautiful. The aesthetic style isn’t everyone’s cup of tea either, though (I’ve visited 20+ colleges, primarily LACs, and the only campus that took my breath away was Scripps). Haverford is more like 1200 students.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the input everyone… I visited both Rice and Carleton and loved them both… Urgh.</p>

6

<p>I’m a Carleton fan. Intellectually curious student and alums and neat campus. I’d also suggest that it does not qualify as “isolated” with St. Olaf’s also in town and Minneapolis 50 minutes away. Plus, I like broom hockey. ;-)</p>

7

<p>What a fantastic dilemma! Middlebury because it’s the highest ranked and in a beautiful place . … no, Rice because it will have lots of opportunities . . . no, the very personal education you’d get at Haverford . . . no, the Midwestern charm of Carleton. Damn! You really can’t lose.</p>

8

<p>Congrats on your great choices. I am a huge Rice fan (my daughter graduated in '07) and I don’t think you can go wrong. It is a small environment compared to almost all other universities, but you have D1 sports (well, sometimes…) and Houston is a wonderful city for a college student.</p>

9

<p>Gee, that’s a tough choice. Can you spend a year at each one?</p>

<p>I’ve never visited Rice. Of the other 3, Middlebury is my favorite for the campus, facilities and setting. But you’re right, of the four it is the weakest science school. By reputation anyway. Maybe that needs to be reexamined in light of recent investments. But I think it’s still not likely to attract the same concentration of hard-core science nerds as the others. It’s also quite isolated. </p>

<p>Carleton also is in a very small, rural town (although it is closer to a large city than Middlebury is.) As at Middlebury, the winters there get extremely cold. Both Haverford and Rice get much milder winters than the other two.</p>

<p>Rice gives you the advantages of a slightly larger size and a mix of liberal arts plus engineering, architecture, and music (which, along with the Houston location, might make for a livelier environment). It is still rather small, though (with ~3200 undergrads, not much bigger than some LACs.) Check out Rice’s past participation in the annual Solar Decathlon project (although Rice won’t be participating in 2011 … Middlebury will be.)</p>

<p>[U.S&lt;/a&gt;. Department of Energy’s Solar Decathlon Home Page](<a href=“http://www.solardecathlon.gov/]U.S”>http://www.solardecathlon.gov/)</p>

10

<p>Maybe I’m crazy (and a little science biased) but Rice is in a different league in terms of quality in my experience.</p>

11

<p>^ I would not have expressed it quite that way, but Rice is definitely in a different league in terms of … searching for the right word … scale? focus? </p>

<p>Anyway, annual research expenditures at Rice are about $70 million, compared to about $1-$2 million at the other 3 schools. Rice is a PhD-granting research university, the others are small liberal arts colleges. There is not much comparison between the Math department offerings at Rice and the Math department offerings at Middlebury. </p>

<p>That said, they are all about equally selective. Carleton rivals Rice nicely for per capita PhD production in several science fields. And I think it’s pretty cool that Middlebury, this little LAC in the middle of the Vermont boondocks, will be fielding a team in the 2011 Solar Decathlon. Going up against the likes of Ohio State and the “Team Florida” consortium, despite not even having engineering or architecture departments.</p>

12

<p>In terms of resources, Rice way out on its own. In terms of undergraduate focus, the difference is negligible. In terms of quality of research production, Rice is way out on its own. In terms of national prestige, my perception is Rice is also way out on its own.</p>

<p>Seriously, I think Rice is easily one of the top 2 or 3 underrated schools in the country for undergrad.</p>

13

<p>How do you want to spend your precious free time? Do you like cold weather…I fyou enjoy winter sports (i.e skiing) then Middlebury has it’s own ski resort. Carleton in Minnesota gets its share of l o n g cold winters too. Rice, on the ither hand is close to the ocean and with it lots of humidity and the true possibility as last year’s “hurricane evacuations.” The weather can get very very hot and humid. On the other hand Rice Village is quaint and has good eateries and places to listen to music…plus everyone seems to go running at dusk. If you hope to go home to visit friends and family over breaks…consider fly time and travel connections. Houston is easy to fly out of… Just some thoughts. I really like Carleton…but I’d probably pick Rice over Carlton or Midd.You will get an exceptional education at all those schools…Which school has the best career center? Something else to consider…</p>

14

<p>^ Free time? S/he’s not going to HAVE free time at any of these 4 schools :)</p>

<p>Issues related to size and resources have come up. Here are some numbers:</p>

<p>Average Class Sizes (% of classes <20)
76% Haverford
71% Middlebury
68% Rice
63% Carleton</p>

<p>Average Class Sizes (% of classes >50)
1% Carleton,Haverford
4% Middlebury
7% Rice</p>

<p>Source: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062471414-post2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062471414-post2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Comment: Since the OP expressed concern about size, I think the important point here is that the class size numbers for Rice are nearly as good as for some of the top LACs. The exact percentages and possibly the rank order may change a little from year to year (these numbers are from a one year old post.)</p>

<p>With respect to resources, as of 2009 Rice had a larger endowment than many larger schools including Hopkins, Brown, and NYU. ([List</a> of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment]List”>List of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia)). As of 2006 its per capita endowment was larger than Harvard’s or Stanford’s (though the financial melt-down may have shaken up that standing a bit.) I think it’s fair to say that Rice is in a league above the 3 LACs with respect to financial resources and research expenditures.</p>

15

<p>Overall, academically Middlebury has the best reputation, though perhaps not for science.</p>

16

<p>Base on what endicott? I don’t think that’s true at all</p>

17

<ol>
<li><p>To get one thing out of the way, these four schools have virtually identical overall reputations (for whatever that’s worth). No deal breaker or maker here.</p></li>
<li><p>While I agree Rice is underappreciated, anyway you cut it if you look at grad programs in the traditional sciences, their rankings are not exactly knock your socks off (certainly not “way out on its own” as has been suggested): Biology #42 - Chemistry #33 - Geology #25 - Physics #26 (not even one top 20). </p></li>
<li><p>Location is one very personal thing. There’s a lot to be said for Rice’s warm locale, but I personally hate humid and hot. Rice Village offers a lot of food options but little (at least for me) entertainment-wise. And quaint?? I’ve always found it more strip mall than village - a car dominated destination (you can tell Houston’s not my thing). I’d take Mn, Pa or Vt in a heartbeat. Not that there’s anything wrong with Texas - love Austin!</p></li>
</ol>

18

<p>Middlebury is the number 4 LAC, after Amherst, WIlliams, and Swarthmore.</p>

19

<p>Rice is one of the best schools in the country for science and is harmed in rankings only because of its size. Honestly. As someone already graduated with a degree in the physical sciences, I have no qualms about saying that Rice is very well regarded amongst scientists and these other institutions are not on the map.</p>

20

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<p>Important correction: that’s according to US News 2010 ranking, which many academics and other informed folks think is pretty much hogwash and about as reliable as a tarot card reading from your untrained kid sister. </p>

<p>Let’s not treat US News as gospel. You are kidding yourself or a fool if you think colleges can be objectively rank ordered like sports team conference comparing head-to-head games played by the teams.</p>

<p>See <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/895116-do-you-trust-us-news-rankings.html?highlight=news[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/895116-do-you-trust-us-news-rankings.html?highlight=news&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;